GPUs: High-end roadmap?

[zombie67]

I am thinking about putting two dual GPUs in my new SB machine. Current choices are 590 or 6990, right? Now questions:

1) Why is availability so crappy for these? They were both released back in March.

2) What's next for AMD (ATI) and nVidia? And when? Is there anything worth waiting for? Or will an impending release lower the price of the current models soon?

My thoughts:

I have three 5870s, a 580, and a flakey 295. With the recent scare of dnetc demise, it brought into focus the very limited choice for ATI projects. I am hesitant to put more money into ATI because of it. So maybe dual 590s?

[Maxwell]

Dandasarge made a comment today in the chat room that made me think... It seems that the Bitcoin miners are snapping up high-end ATI/AMD cards. This is keeping the price high and unlikely to come down in the near future, at least from that perspective.

Now let me talk about my perspective on the MM chase:
1. With the exception of PG, every ATI project pays better for similar-cost cards. However, (save for Moo) you've hit all your 100M's in the ATI projects. If you want breadth, ATI is probably not your best way to go.
2. I know you're not averse to punching yourself in the face credit-wise, and there are many more CUDA opportunities than ATI right now. In fact, every ATI project also has a CUDA app.
3. Your stats: GPUGrid=10M. Seti=1M. SetiBeta=1M. DRTG=5M(ish). Einstein=1M. Lattice(if it gets there)=1M. With a Nvidia card, you'll be up in the stratosphere on these.
4. You want a 1B project? PG is the easiest to get there, and it runs best on CUDA.

Personally, my plan moving forward is CUDA only. More breadth, and (save Moo) I've hit all the MMs I want to chase with ATI. To be honest, if someone offered me a straight-up trade of a 5970 for a roughly equivalent CUDA card, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

From a market and hardware perspective, I don't know enough to intelligently comment. But we share fairly similar crunching sensibilities, so those are my thoughts. And with that board you got, assuming the OS can handle it, I wouldn't be surprised if you could get 4 liquid cooled 590s in there. And you could call it the "JPM Spanker"... :cool:

[Mr. Hankey]

Well I happen to play racquetball with one of the ATI developers that works on the compute side code optimizations. We were talking about the the 69xx series cards back at the launch time he said that was primarily a manufacturing cost reduction / efficiency improvement of the 58xx series (kind of like the tick tock intel cpu strategy, think die shrink). He said the next big technological improvement is coming in the next gen cards the 79xx. I think those are due out in q3/q4.

[Maxwell]

Mr. Hankey, please insert me into your social network... ;) :cool:

[joker]

Mr. Hankey, please insert me

I just could NOT let that one go...... :-|:-|:-|

[zombie67]

Well I happen to play racquetball with one of the ATI developers that works on the compute side code optimizations. We were talking about the the 69xx series cards back at the launch time he said that was primarily a manufacturing cost reduction / efficiency improvement of the 58xx series (kind of like the tick tock intel cpu strategy, think die shrink). He said the next big technological improvement is coming in the next gen cards the 79xx. I think those are due out in q3/q4.

Is there a code name for the 7xxx series? Something I could google for more info?

[Duke of Buckingham]

Is there a code name for the 7xxx series? Something I could google for more info?

Sorry if I say something wrong, if it is ignore me, but if use HD7xxx series perhaps you get more results.

[zombie67]

Sorry if I say something wrong, if it is ignore me, but if use HD7xxx series perhaps you get more results.

Duh. For some reason, I have a mental block when it comes to the obvious terms for google searches.

This is the best I could find after about 5 minutes. I am sure is all 100% fact. ;) But it says a the replacement for a 6990 is a year away. And schedules never slip...

http://hw-lab.com/specs-for-amd-radeon-hd-7990-disclosed.html

[Duke of Buckingham]

Duh. For some reason, I have a mental block when it comes to the obvious terms for google searches.

This is the best I could find after about 5 minutes. I am sure is all 100% fact. ;) But it says a the replacement for a 6990 is a year away. And schedules never slip...

http://hw-lab.com/specs-for-amd-radeon-hd-7990-disclosed.html

For that I would wait all my life and in the end we would marry. Yes I am quite sure of that. The 7990 is somehow amazing. WOW

[zombie67]

On on the nVidia side, gtx 6xx, aka "kepler" is rumored to be in December of this year. Having been in product development for over 20 years, I know for a fact that any date in the last week of a quarter or last month of a year, is just a place holder. It means they're running late, but aren't yet prepared to tell management/the public public about it.

So, it is clear that the 6xxx and 5xx cards we have today will be around for quite a while. Perhaps small speed bumps, or small price reductions over the duration.

I am still not clear why BOTH dual GPUs are in short supply, with long lead times.

[Duke of Buckingham]

I have finnished my history thread. I would like very much to have long talks about GPU and sometimes I see you all in here talking about computers and GPUs. :o Well I am so bad that when someone told me to use a dummy in the GPU. I tried to connect myself to the GPU. I have something that dont go with GPUs. One cant know everything. :p But sometimes I am sad because I am not so stupid as the GPUs make me feell.

Duke

[joker]

Be careful where you stick that dummy plug DB! ;)

[Fire$torm]

Is there a code name for the 7xxx series? Something I could google for more info?


Sorry if I say something wrong, if it is ignore me, but if use HD7xxx series perhaps you get more results.


Duh. For some reason, I have a mental block when it comes to the obvious terms for google searches.

This is the best I could find after about 5 minutes. I am sure is all 100% fact. ;) But it says a the replacement for a 6990 is a year away. And schedules never slip...

http://hw-lab.com/specs-for-amd-radeon-hd-7990-disclosed.html

Just an FYI.

Many times for me the place to start is Wikipedia. And listed under Radeon, the Processor Generations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon#Processor_generations) table shows the HD 7xxx series is code named Southern Islands. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Islands_%28GPU_family%29)

[Shadow]

The 69XX series really wasn't much of an improvement over the 58xx. Yes you can eek out more credits with them, but they also generate massive amounts of heat and use a ton of power. You can scrape by running 2 6970's with a 1k psu, but to be in the real comfort zone you need a 1200. If you were to run 2 6990's together, I really don't think the 1200w psu would be able to handle them and be stable with any kind of OC'ing. It almost seems like we've just about seen the limit of how far they can take the GPU's, and now they're just remaking the same thing with tiny new tweaks and calling them a new series. I haven't owned an Nvidia card in over a decade, I had bad luck with them early on and refuse to go back to them.

[YoDude9999]

Unlike some people, I seem to have bad luck with ATI cards and Nvidia to me is the way to go.

I own a few EVGA MBs and everytime I try to plug in an ATI based GPU, I spend hours and hours trying to find a way to make them work with that brand of MB. Plug in an Nvidia card into the same MB and I'm instantly golden with it.

I do like the way ATI churns out WUs on MW, Dnet, Moo and Collatz, but for me it's always a pain in the arse to get the GPU to run. I'm sure that if I took the same ATI cards and fitted them inside a trashcan, I 'd get the same results, but when attached to an AMD based MB, I'm quite sure they fire up as easily as the Nvidia based GPUs when plugged into an Intel based MB.

I will continue to run ATI based GPUs so long as I can find MBs that they'll run on.

Yo-

[zombie67]

Well, I won't be buying a 590 for a while now, even if I wanted to. No one has any for sale!

[DrPop]

@Zombie- typing on phone from Magic Mountain in line with Kat for Ninja- sorry for typos if any.
The 6xxx series was a minor tweak on the 5xxx series in most ways. This was not the original plan; they had hoped GF would be able to pull the next nm die shrink off in time, and then the plan was to blow NVIDIA away for a few months again, like when ATI released the 5970...it had no competition.
However, GF canceled the 1/2 size jump die shrink on them when they were well into design phase. The AMD engineers were forced to change facts very quickly, as 6xxx series is still produced on same size die as 5xxx series. This is why we were disappointed by the release. They changed the architecture width, and really tweaked some things so 6xxx is much better is some higher end games and with tesselation. But for crunching, raw HP did not change much. So, cheapest idea would be (2) 5970's used off ebay if you want ATI cards. I would wait for 7xxx series as the die shrink will drop to 32nm and be a huge difference in performance- more in line with what we think of as a series jump. That is, I would not spend the cash on any ati card over a 5870 or 5970 right now for crunching...gaming would be different maybe.

Now the CUDA question- I know it is not your bag, but if you really wanted to help the team take over LAF before SIC* takes over us, there is no better return on a pci-e slot than a GTX 590 running PG. I don't know if you would even want to, but if interested in joining the 1Bil MM club or something...2 590's on PG and just let 'em rip indefinitely. ;)

Price is high and supply tight still because the chips used in the 590 are binned at the highest level. The memory chips are too, not just the GPU chip itself. These chips they are putting in the 590 are the best of the best, so they can run them so fast in less voltage than say a single one of these in a 580 or 570 ...they must do this to keep the heat down, and also allow enthusiests some o/c room.
Hope that helps a little,
Pops

[zombie67]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I am planning on at least one 590 for now. Maybe two eventually. But like I said, there are none for sale. Everyone is out of stock.

[joker]

But like I said, there are none for sale. Everyone is out of stock.

I might be wrong here but from what I have been seeing, I would wager they they are not actually "out" yet. Probably a "paper" release IMHO. I have found sites that say that they have them but they are 1-3 weeks out because they are "special order".

[Fire$torm]

Thanks for the info. Yes, I am planning on at least one 590 for now. Maybe two eventually. But like I said, there are none for sale. Everyone is out of stock.

These two sites say they have them in stock. Personally, I would check out any unknown net vendor with the BBB before making a purchase.

(Funny name) Lord Of The Net: (http://store.lordofthe.net/110784) $749.99

Next Day PC: (http://www.nextdaypc.com/main/products/details.aspx?PID=A803589&rsmainid=ND0130014) $767.12 (4 in stock)

[zombie67]

Yeah, I checked newegg, tigerdirect, amazon, even evga (you can buy directly from them). But the best I could do was to get on "notification" lists.

[John P. Myers]

Nvidia GPU Roadmap (http://forums.legitreviews.com/about29897.html)
Notice the insane performance increase of Maxwell, very dim on the right-hand side of the image.

Couldn't find one for AMD, other than mobile.

[zombie67]

So I ended up buying two 590 classified cards. :D

[John P. Myers]

So I ended up buying two 590 classified cards. :D

Damn, man! Sweet :D

[joker]

So I ended up buying two 590 classified cards.

Holy Poop Batman!!! Very nice.

[spingadus]

So I ended up buying two 590 classified cards. :D

Awesome!

Everyone buy 590's!

[Maxwell]

Nvidia GPU Roadmap (http://forums.legitreviews.com/about29897.html)
Notice the insane performance increase of Maxwell, very dim on the right-hand side of the image.
Though I resent the "dim" comment, I would like to thank the academy... ;)

[Fire$torm]

Nvidia GPU Roadmap (http://forums.legitreviews.com/about29897.html)
Notice the insane performance increase of Maxwell, very dim on the right-hand side of the image.

OH GAWD!!!! They code named a GPU after Maxwell? Man, we will NEVER hear the end of this......... :P

[joker]

Now that you are famous Max, my mom wants more money.

[Maxwell]

Now that you are famous Max, my mom wants more money.
We have a contract... $10 for an "oral presentation" and $25 for a "ride to the conference." My income doesn't change that.

And yeah... JayZ wrote "Big Pimpin'" with me in mind. Fo' shizzle dizzle. :cool:

EDIT: I do appreciate how joker just admitted his mom is a whore... ;)

[joker]

I do appreciate how joker just admitted his mom is a whore...

Nope, just a regular woman like all others. You want "it", you have to "pay" for it in one fashion or another.

[Maxwell]

Nope, just a regular woman like all others. You want "it", you have to "pay" for it in one fashion or another.
Ah. All women are whores. Got it. I shall now get back to investing in dishwashers... ;)

[joker]

Ah. All women are whores. Got it. I shall now get back to investing in dishwashers...

Or if you are lucky, you can find a woman who is turned on my a 590!! :D

[Duke of Buckingham]

I have a on board DOG

http://randomfunnypicture.com/wp2/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/redneck-dishwasher.jpg

[joker]

DISHWASHER!!!!!!!!!!!! :)):)):))

[Slicker]

Ah. All women are whores. Got it. I shall now get back to investing in dishwashers... ;)

I prefer this one:

Pulchellus puella es a attero of vicis quod viaticus.

[YoDude9999]

#%*!@&!

Yo-

[Fire$torm]

I prefer this one:

Pulchellus puella es a attero of vicis quod viaticus.




I tried to translate that on the net and got something about a "pretty wife denies purchasing insurance policies for cash from terminally ill policy holders."

[Duke of Buckingham]

I tried to translate that on the net and got something about a "pretty wife denies purchasing insurance policies for cash from terminally ill policy holders."

Yes Latin is not easy. I studied that for 5 years. Viaticus is a kind of insurance policy for terminal people. Pulchellus is an insect that only exist in the USA. Attero is to destroy. Vicis is convenience or opportunity. Quod can be quota in this case. And all that is not Latin.