SETI.USA NEEDS A STEERING COMMITTEE NOW.

[SUncleSamA]

First requirement period.

SUSA has some nice discussions but they too often just end with no actual agreement nor action. Someone needs to take definitive action and produce a product. Since this is a team environment you need a group of team members to take discussions to a conclusion point and to action. You need a team rudder and a group to steer SUSA. You need this now period.

What: a group of dedicate, active, serious and positive team members. The number of members should be odd. I'll recommend at least 13 but you can make it 11 or 15 but not more.

How: anyone with at least two posts can submit a list of 13 names on whom they would like to see on the Steering Committee (SC). Team member who get the most nominations will be invited to be on the SC. I'll assume your Admin's will be members via nomination so no special rule is needed for them If anyone declines an invitation go to the next person named the most. List of nominations from each qualifying member should be PM to Maxwell and DrPop who will check totals and then the official results are sent to Mr. Hankey and Teratoma who will then invite the team member to be on the SC.

Nominating ends 1/27 and final results sent to the Admins 1/28. Invitations sent and the SC membership finalized 2/4. First Steering Committee post will be 2/5. Put these dates on your calendar. Note: I'd like to do this faster since you need this SC sooner rather than later but I don't want to rush you on this one since it's the first task.

The SC will need an SC members only Forum to meet and discuss topics, The Group function won't be acceptable.
I don't want to be a member of the SC but I would like access so I can post the basic starting rules like voting and assign the SC their first task to reach a definitive solution upon.

I can't cover all the details in the time/space allowed here but follow the principle of Keep It Simple. Once you have your SC you can go into details and finer points. If any clarifications/decisions are needed here I'll provide it.

So do me the favor of giving me this just this one for now. The SC is a good idea and is needed to get the ball rolling. The format is irrelevant as long as you have the SC group defined.

Good luck and happy nominating.

[Maxwell]

Note to self: not an accountant...

[STMahlberg]

Note to self: not an accountant...

Not an accountant???

[joker]

Not to sound too rude but.....Who are you? :confused: Your stats say newbie but your tone suggests (to me) old member signed up under new name. :-? Not sure about everyone else but I am not going to respond very well to a newbie ordering me around :-@ or an old member using subterfuge. :^o Not saying its a bad idea, just saying that this method might not sit well with people (other then me). Just my opinion.

[NJCaNS]

Not an accountant???I'm guessing that's a reference to the keep it simple comment. I've never known an accountant who could keep it simple. I'd have quessed not a lawyer for the same reason except Uncle Sam likes to talk.

Personally I'm kind of intrigued. Seems we are a bit stagnant at the moment and a steering committee might be useful. I'll make and submit a list of people just to see where this goes but that's just my opinion. Maybe a simple pole to see if people want a steering committee?:-??

[Maxwell]

I was actually referring to the fact that I don't want people to PM me their input. I'm not an accountant, and have no interest keeping track of that...

[trigggl]

I'm guessing that's a reference to the keep it simple comment. I've never known an accountant who could keep it simple. I'd have quessed not a lawyer for the same reason except Uncle Sam likes to talk.

Personally I'm kind of intrigued. Seems we are a bit stagnant at the moment and a steering committee might be useful. I'll make and submit a list of people just to see where this goes but that's just my opinion. Maybe a simple pole to see if people want a steering committee?:-??

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have an official team focus project based on a consensus of what goal we want to work on at that particular time. We could bring back the project of the month and choose those based on achievable goals. I don't think a steering committee is going to raise our production, but maybe it will make the team a little more attractive if it looks like we have some semblance of order. What we really need is more people. Steering a small boat isn't going to make the boat any bigger.

If we're going to have a pole, can it be a Festivus Pole? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus#Festivus_pole)

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u263/rockin-g/holiday/festivus-pole.png

[Harley]

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have an official team focus project based on a consensus of what goal we want to work on at that particular time. We could bring back the project of the month and choose those based on achievable goals. I don't think a steering committee is going to raise our production, but maybe it will make the team a little more attractive if it looks like we have some semblance of order. What we really need is more people. Steering a small boat isn't going to make the boat any bigger.

If we're going to have a pole, can it be a Festivus Pole? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus#Festivus_pole)

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u263/rockin-g/holiday/festivus-pole.png






I thought we had an official team focus project..... MW. You mean I've been wasting my time? LOL.

[Fire$torm]

I'm guessing that's a reference to the keep it simple comment. I've never known an accountant who could keep it simple. I'd have quessed not a lawyer for the same reason except Uncle Sam likes to talk.

Personally I'm kind of intrigued. Seems we are a bit stagnant at the moment and a steering committee might be useful. I'll make and submit a list of people just to see where this goes but that's just my opinion. Maybe a simple pole to see if people want a steering committee?:-??

Unfortunately this very idea lead to a huge rift in the team awhile back....

[STMahlberg]

If we're going to have a pole, can it be a Festivus Pole? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus#Festivus_pole)

Our poles are a little different here in Las Vegas...

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4743/1945975org.jpg

[Fire$torm]

Our poles are a little different here in Las Vegas...

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/4743/1945975org.jpg

Wish I had the money to visit Vegas........

[Dandasarge]

Can't say I don't agree. Not sure I agree with the angle. Not sure it is someone who was/is in SETI.USA and doesn’t want to be active. My guess would be an older retired out of them team member. Possibly someone out of SG that is friendly with us that could cause problems for themselves in there own team but still doesn’t want to see SETI.USA fall.

I think the Idea of a committee is great, this is the problem. Working people do not have the time required to be in a committee. This is proven in history. So the main parts of Committees are made of retired people. I don’t see 10 active retired people on the form. Jobless people simply don’t have the money to crunch and are less active. Students in summer I think pick up for 3-4 months.

My guess that form Admin’s would no doubt have to be in the committee as it would be one of the rolls.

But what would the other slots be?

Manager/ leader
Form overall admin
New project manager
Public relations
Project analyst
Hardware analyst
Training

There is a gray area as far as hardware/ finance. The team at one point had this. Today I say no we don’t need it but if things come around someone would be needed to improve the cluster.

[trigggl]

I thought we had an official team focus project..... MW. You mean I've been wasting my time? LOL.
That's a good focus if you posses an ATI card. I would think a team focus should be something that changes periodically based on circumstances and can be something non-
ATI users can participate in (and feel like they're accomplishing something). Don't want to pull anyone off of MW, but not everyone crunches MW and might want a different focus.

I liked the POM, though I didn't always crunch it. It was done by a vote, if I'm not mistaken. We just didn't always pick the right project for it.

[Slicker]

I liked the POM, though I didn't always crunch it. It was done by a vote, if I'm not mistaken. We just didn't always pick the right project for it.

So... democracy only works when people vote the way you want them to? Actually, I do agree with you to a certain extent. We never determined what criteria make a POTM a good POTM. Doing that is like herding cats. Is it to move up in FB? Move up a few positions in a project? For a good cause? There are many reasons and we won't ever all agree on one or the order or precedence.

Is MW a team focus project? I'm not so sure. If people don't know what else to crunch, then maybe. For credit mongers, it depends whether DNETC pays better for their card. For people chasing MMs, it depends which GPU project goal they are trying to obtain.

In other words, a steering committee will pick a project, piss everyone off because it isn't their favorite project, feelings get hurt and people leave. Or, we don't have a steering committee and everyone does their own thing and the people who want to be on a team for the sole purpose of stomping other teams get pissed and they leave. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Give the relatively small number of people who read these boards compared the number of team members, by take on the steering committee is about the same as using a toothpick as the rudder for a ship. Not much steering will ever take place. Not until a majority of the team members become active members (not necessarily posting, but at least reading the MB posts).

[Teratoma]

PotMs (Project of the Month) were nominated by team members who would provide their reasoning. The Leadership Committee would then vote on which project would be selected for that month.

hhhmmmmm....Leadership Committee.....that did not work out in the long run, did it. Maybe if we change the number of members and call it a Steering Committee it will work this time!

[STMahlberg]

hhhmmmmm....Leadership Committee.....that did not work out in the long run, did it. Maybe if we change the number of members and call it a Steering Committee it will work this time!

Is that kind of like saying that the only reason Communism doesn't work is because we didn't try it long enough? ;)

[Teratoma]

Communism doesn't work not because we (Americans) didn't try it long enough...it doesn't work because we (Americans) didn't try it at all! \m/

Maybe I am saying that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. :-s

[Dandasarge]

Communism doesn't work not because we (Americans) didn't try it long enough...it doesn't work because we (Americans) didn't try it at all! \m/

Maybe I am saying that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. :-s

The SETI.USA history isn't so bad :o

[STMahlberg]

Communism doesn't work not because we (Americans) didn't try it long enough...it doesn't work because we (Americans) didn't try it at all! \m/

Maybe I am saying that those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. :-s


The SETI.USA history isn't so bad :o

S.USA's history is awesome. My hat is off to our Founders and to those members who came before us... or at least me. :)

It is unfortunate that in the past though that trying to set goals and the "changing of the guard" lead to rifts. I know there are positive points, in theory, having a Steering Committee but I also agree that trying to form one is going to ruffle feathers and I think enough of that has already occurred.

Even though at times I may get frustrated with what might appear as no action, I have to say overall, I like the specialized Groups that have been formed. They are like Mini-Steering Committees and I can be a part of as many of those or as few as I want.

[Teratoma]

No. But it is not perfect.

Don't get me wrong here. I am not opposed to any ideas that would improve this team. My comments were made partly in jest. Primarily this is due to the fact that this topic was started by an outsider who has appointed him/herself as our "guide" or "consultant" without any information of who they are or where they came from. I need to see some qualifications or something. If this person thinks they are going to tell us what we should do and think we will just do so blindly, I think they need to reconsider their approach.

I work professionally as a consultant. I get paid for my expertise. Despite that, the people who are paying for that expertise are often reluctant to actually listen to me. It can take a long time to earn their trust and respect and even then they may not listen to me. Such arrogance will never get me anywhere.

So, until the OP has proven him/herself and continues with the anonymity, my responses will be less than serious.

[Slicker]

Consultant: Someone who gets paid to tell your boss what time it is by asking you to tell him the time on your own wrist watch because the boss wouldn't believe you when you told him.

I think most of us know what the problems are and a steering committee isn't going to change them. What we need are involved members. Sic has 293 members and are totally kicking our backsides. Yes, Sic has 5 people who outscore our big dog, but the reality is that if our 2000 members each had a single low to mid range GPU, we'd be kicking every team. The only other option is to recruit members with GPUs or buy more ourselves. The latter is not an option for me unless I shut down several machines to add one more GPU since the electric bill is almost three Franklins a month and she who holds the checkbook is not pleased about that.

[trigggl]

So... democracy only works when people vote the way you want them to? Actually, I do agree with you to a certain extent. We never determined what criteria make a POTM a good POTM. Doing that is like herding cats. Is it to move up in FB? Move up a few positions in a project? For a good cause? There are many reasons and we won't ever all agree on one or the order or precedence.
I'm just saying I liked having a PotM. It's like a default. If you don't like the default choose what you do like.

I am not saying I want a "Steering Committee". I don't.

[Zytozux]

Can't we send out an email to team members to let them know or remind them about the forums?

[SUncleSamA]

Well this has been interesting reading. It looks like many of the other threads concerning making a decision here: that have some serious responses, both pro and con, and some funny but useless posts. But the end points looks like the usual nothing will get done.

It also contains some incorrect and manufactured assumptions. The SC is not telling members or dictating what will be done. It's making team recommendation and providing guidance where needed. It can't force anyone to do something they don't want to do. To try to do that would be self as defeating as it was in the past. It is composed of members who are aware what occurred before and will work to avoid that since the collective conscience of the team has changed. So have confidence in the current membership and give them a chance.

One person can't tell you what to do nor can 1000. So start with 13 and see what happens. You might be pleasantly surprised and the team will benefit. If you are OK with where the team is now with fragmented solutions then stay the course but a little structure or planning can go a long way towards where this team and it's members seem to want to go.

If someone can't do one of the tasks mentioned in Post 1 then assign or get someone else to do it. I only named names to keep the ball rolling and have them above board.

[Teratoma]

Why don't you try becoming an active member of this team for ...oh, I don't know....3 months or so. Join us in some other projects and participate a little more here. Get to know us better. More importantly, let us get to know you better. Perhaps some of us may actually take you more seriously then.

[Mr. Hankey]

Can't we send out an email to team members to let them know or remind them about the forums?

Yes, we used to do that. We also used to have a really nice newsletter but that fell by the wayside. We don't have a good way of contacting/sending out bulk emails and that is something we need to have a plan for. $$$ of course fixes everything and one idea could be to collect donations to pay for the email service that we could use.

[DrPop]

I am intrigued more with this post than the last, even. Look, guys, it doesn't matter who is behind this ID. Who cares?! Really. This is the same stuff several of us have been saying for a loooong time; just by someone from the "outside looking in".
Do you really think this is someone we don't know? Riiiight...he/she/it pegged us pretty well in that first post. It's obvious to me that our team lost its identity when SETI lost the "crown" of BOINC. Suddenly, there was a concept shift (i.e. new projects with varying credit output), further compounded by a paradigm shift: viz. CPU dominated crunching turning to GPU dominated crunching, not overnight, but much faster than most expected.
Unfortunately for our team, these changes were not accompanied by a clear and decisive change in tactics, purpose, or strategy, all of which are necessary for any organization to survive in a changing environment, let alone THRIVE in a hostile, competitive zone such as BOINC!

I'm not telling anyone here anything new, just re-capping. This is like the USA on the brink of WWII; do you remember from history how far behind we were in aircraft technology to get something to beat a Zero in a dogfigt? It took major time and resources, but the truth is, WE, the people of The United States of America, did it. And we can do it again in BOINC as well.

Now, I don't care who is telling us this info, I don't even care if it's your mom, or someone from another team. The bottom line is, our team has a STRONG core of dedicated crunchers (anyone who reads this) surrounded by an aging framework of outdated philosophy, equipment, and disinterested members (the 13K or so folks with CPUs that at one point or another in their life, thought, "Hey, I'd like to try that").

Let me finish by saying, it's all about ENERGY. I shouldn't have to give you references, but if you don't believe me, go study some quantum physics and come back to the table. (and leave your rig crunching while you're studying) So, if you're going to be negative, please re-think your post and phrase it in the most positive manner possible.

Back to the energy thing. There are no coincidences. I was just thinking about limiting my time here. If you hadn't noticed, I've been posting less this week, I suppose because, to be honest, I didn't feel like anything I had contributed thus far had been to much effect. And then this being, whoever it is, posts...and the effect to me, is like wind in the sails of a corsair that had been left to rot in the doldrums.

Sure, S.USA needs more than a committee; we need a blasted mother load of things, and if y'all have so much better ideas, then let's hear 'em, because frankly, I'm getting a little tired of circling as we go down further every day in the stats. But why not humor Uncle Sam a little. Let's drop the insanity of pretending we're fine with 5th place output in the world. How long are we all going to maintain the illusion of wonderfulness? Spare me, people. We are The USA, and we shouldn't take 2nd to anyone.

There are so many great folks here, it's hard for me to choose. That's a good thing, but please don't anyone get offended, I'm trying to think of people who would actually enjoy serving. With that in mind...
I nominate Hankey, Tera, Beer, Zombie, Dorsilfin, NJCans, Mike029, JPM, CrazyBob, Slickr, STM, Fire$torm, and, if I may be so bold, myself.
Edit: if you want 15, I add Mumps and Zytozux. Or as alternates for any of the 13 above who might bow out.

What we will accomplish, I don't know, and that doesn't even matter. If we put out the energy, it will come back to the team - even if it's in a way or from some other source than what we all expect.

[Dandasarge]

I agree with DrPop.

Except the part about amusing SUncleSamA. It should be done because the TEAM needs it. I wouldn’t let him see the interworking until some more info as disclosed but they are right.

In the end people are going to do what they want to do. That’s the nature of a hobbie. I just want those people to have the support they need to do the best at what they want to do. We need races and team projects exc exc.

[Harley]

That's a good focus if you posses an ATI card. I would think a team focus should be something that changes periodically based on circumstances and can be something non-
ATI users can participate in (and feel like they're accomplishing something). Don't want to pull anyone off of MW, but not everyone crunches MW and might want a different focus.

I liked the POM, though I didn't always crunch it. It was done by a vote, if I'm not mistaken. We just didn't always pick the right project for it.




I was just trying to lighten the mood around here and was only referring to the http://setiusa.free-dc.org/vbforum/showthread.php?226-Team-Focus-Project-MilkyWay-Home thread. I did not mean to imply that MW is or should be an official team focus project. Ok now back to lurking mode!

[DrPop]

...just trying to lighten the mood around here...

Point well taken, I suppose I should lighten up too. I just can't stand the drubbing we're getting these days in the world standings. Oh well, to each their own, I guess. I'm here if anyone wants to put their heads together and see if we can figure anything out...
...Or we could just stare blankly at each other, too! :D

[Beerdrinker]

I don´t know what to think of all this...There are some valid points all around. Something to really consider...

But...

It all comes down to...Credits. Loads of credits!


If we wanna re-gain the #1 slot again in a not so distant future...We need to KISS...(Keep It Simple Stupid) We won´t gain ANY members before we approach the masses...We won´t get more credits if we do not maximize our current production...I see lot´s of new members joining with a GPU but crunch " the wrong project" with it...


So to KISS..We need only one thing:

We need to act as a team, and get in touch with ALL members. 13.000+ members should be more than enough - if we just point them!

If all existing members added just 1000 CS to their daily production we would produce 46 Mill + per day!! and 1000 Cs per day is not all that much nowadays!

[STMahlberg]

Yes, everyone does have valid points which I wish to make a reply that will undoubtedly be tedious and long-winded but first... Tacos... and a new Caf-Pow. :)

I shall return...

[Dandasarge]

I don´t know what to think of all this...There are some valid points all around. Something to really consider...

But...

It all comes down to...Credits. Loads of credits!


If we wanna re-gain the #1 slot again in a not so distant future...We need to KISS...(Keep It Simple Stupid) We won´t gain ANY members before we approach the masses...We won´t get more credits if we do not maximize our current production...I see lot´s of new members joining with a GPU but crunch " the wrong project" with it...


So to KISS..We need only one thing:

We need to act as a team, and get in touch with ALL members. 13.000+ members should be more than enough - if we just point them!

If all existing members added just 1000 CS to their daily production we would produce 46 Mill + per day!! and 1000 Cs per day is not all that much nowadays!

With all respect,
Not everyone crunches to make the most credits. A lot of people crunch the credits that make them feel the most productive. I think it is as important that we get the people the info they need. If they want to crunch XYZ we need to encourage it even if it’s the lowest paying project on BONIC because someone crunching XYZ is better then someone leaving the team for a team that supports that project or giving up on BONIC all together. We have to make sure they know what systems will work for them. Something I’m sure is lost in the old forms that we need to relearn.

This team has always been split with the gold fish credit whores and the people that came here because SETI.USA wanted to be # 1 in every project. We can not discourage or make one project more important then another! But we can work as a Team to make our way to the top.

[Beerdrinker]

With all respect,
Not everyone crunches to make the most credits. A lot of people crunch the credits that make them feel the most productive. I think it is as important that we get the people the info they need. If they want to crunch XYZ we need to encourage it even if it’s the lowest paying project on BONIC because someone crunching XYZ is better then someone leaving the team for a team that supports that project or giving up on BONIC all together. We have to make sure they know what systems will work for them. Something I’m sure is lost in the old forms that we need to relearn.

This team has always been split with the gold fish credit whores and the people that came here because SETI.USA wanted to be # 1 in every project. We can not discourage or make one project more important then another! But we can work as a Team to make our way to the top.

Agreed. But which top are we aiming for?

Some likes mega milestones
Some like credits, chasing the #1 overall
Some like FB, chasing the #1 spot there
Some like Project #1, constant defending positions..

There is no way in H.... you can match those criterias!

Incresing points can:

Make more credits for megamilestones
Make more credit for overall
Make more credits for FB
Make more credits on individual projects.

Like I said...KISS.

We all take a stand. Saying: " I am gonna increase 1-2000 points on my daily production!"

That will affect EVERYBODY!

[Teratoma]

As previously stated, I am not against any idea that will benefit this team.

I AM, without reservation, against any self proclaimed ANONYMOUS saviour that expects us to follow his/her step by step guide to success.


If any clarifications/decisions are needed here I'll provide it.

WTF?! Are you all ready to buy into that? Since when did we allow any one individual make decisions for us let alone an outsider who doesn't have the balls to name themself? Why remain anonymous? If this is all for our benefit and this person will truly be our "messiah" what is he/she hiding? What other agendas are we not being told about. I think that all of you are intelligent enough to not allow this in your personal life, so why tolerate it here?

I think that collectively the "regulars" here can provide the leadership we need via consensus. If you feel that a formal change is necessary, then by all means continue this discussion and we can come to an agreement on what form and how this change can be made. But please, do not allow yourself to be led by anyone but your own common sense.

[STMahlberg]

I will start off by saying that I hope that this discussion will not fizzle out like the other threads of similar content have in the past.

There are many good points that have been brought up, I can certainly understand that no one wishes to have a repeat of recent history and have to go through another exodus but at the same time we should not be afraid of something that 'might' happen.

We should not be afraid to take actions that have the potential to improve this team. I know it has been said that, "we have tried that before and failed." Keep in mind this team has changed since then... we have some new members and some of the old members are gone.

So what is the harm in trying once again? Imagine the benefits if it works!

Perhaps you don't like the term Steering Committee, perhaps it's to stringent of a term but regardless of what you call it, it is a compass or perhaps better a sextant. An instrument that can tell us where we are and which way we are headed.

To have such a device in place does not take away peoples choice, it provides choices with better information and nothing will take away free will.

DrPop is correct... we are loosing ground. So how's it feel to be 3rd in the world in credit and 5th in RAC? Do you like it? Do you like being loosers to France??? We have a frakin state bigger than their whole damn country!

The writing on the wall. We need to make decisions and then ACT on those decisions. No one is going to be made to crunch anything against their will.

I know that we all like to do different things here, we all have our pet projects but I believe that we can all do our own thing and still have a more focused direction.

Just more thoughts...

[STMahlberg]

Agreed. But which top are we aiming for?

Some likes mega milestones
Some like credits, chasing the #1 overall
Some like FB, chasing the #1 spot there
Some like Project #1, constant defending positions..


ALL OF THEM!


There is no way in H.... you can match those criterias!

Why not? You said it earlier... We have 13,000+ members.

[Dandasarge]

Agreed. But which top are we aiming for?

Some likes mega milestones
Some like credits, chasing the #1 overall
Some like FB, chasing the #1 spot there
Some like Project #1, constant defending positions..

There is no way in H.... you can match those criterias!

Incresing points can:

Make more credits for megamilestones
Make more credit for overall
Make more credits for FB
Make more credits on individual projects.

Like I said...KISS.

We all take a stand. Saying: " I am gonna increase 1-2000 points on my daily production!"

That will affect EVERYBODY!

As long as you’re chasing your dream you will increase production. I agree with two good points. It dose have to stay simple KISS is great. The team members should to put the effort to work on increasing WU production. I feel like a lot of people have forgotten there dreams and hope to remind them all the importance of these prodjects.

If you want mega milestones then chase that
If you want to be #1 in every project then chase that.
Exc Exc.

Improving our best (as individuals) is what I will agree and I think everyone will.

I truly believe that overall #1 will come as a byproduct from an overall effort to improve. If you must ask #1 in what? How about in the most friendly helpful team? Is there a scale for that? No there isn’t. I bet every member here that has been around any amount of time can remember trading info helping other teams/ having other teams help us they see what we are about like it and join. That’s how we become #1 in all criteria’s.

[Fire$torm]

Here I come to save the day....... Now don't be a hater :P (This is a joke. This is only a joke)

OK my 2%. The fire has been stoked so we can feed it and see if it can clear a path back to SETI.USA being #1 by any measure or we can let it burn itself out.

It might be a good idea to employ "Roberts Rules of Order" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberts_Rules_of_Order) here as well as any thread regarding team policy. Just a thought.

There have been many good points and ideas posted in this thread. Also valid warnings that should not be ignored. That said, it should never be a bad time to do or try things that have the goal of HELPING the team.

Personally, I prefer the concept of groups that can focus resources based on a like minded idea. There are team members that live for Mega Milestones so why not have a MM focus group for that purpose. A POTM group is a killer idea. I do the currently unofficial Team Focus Project-MilkyWay@Home and will probably never stop crunching it.

Since this team has, from its inception, been a crunch what you want thing, then let us USE it to our advantage. I think one of the factors (As there have been many) that led to many members leaving this team has been a lack of consistency in certain areas like the Team Newsletter. Some would call it an absence of commitment. Well, so be it. That was the past. All roads lead to the future. If one's attention is fully on what has gone by then that one cannot successfully navigate what is directly in front of them.

If our new poster is in fact an old friend then that may be an indication of a serious problem with SETI.USA. Think about it. If a former member needs the vale of anonymity in order to attempt motivating this team, that is a very scary thought. No former member should EVER feel the need to hide who they are in order to be heard. And I for one do not like even the possibility of it.

Nuff said, for now....

[DrPop]

Alright, "for now..." just ended, because I can't hold it back any longer. ;)

We must rid ourselves of the notion that we can be all things to all people...that is, if we want to excel at any one thing. Cliche time..."jack of all trades, master of none", etc, etc. Those sayings came into being for a reason.

Let's try this another way. Pick a team sport. Any one. Emphasis on team here, not individual sports. Pick your favorite player. If you picked a football player, is he/she much good at say, basketball? How about a relay team...think they're worth much in a hockey match? Ad finem....

Why do people seem to think BOINC is any different than anything else in life? This isn't a sacred cow here. The same rules apply to BOINC as every other group undertaking in life. Every single sport, business, enterprise - whatever it is, insert it here - has goals, purpose, direction, backing...or eventually, it fails.
Our team refuses to define itself. We must lay down in black and white exactly what we stand for, what our mission is, and it has to be tangible. Measurable, to check if we're even accomplishing it. I really don't care what you all want to pick for those - I might be interested, or might not be in this team after a true direction is chosen, but that's just it. We are letting the fear of losing more members keep us from making a decision. So we lose them anyway, to a bolder team willing to define itself, or one that particularly calls to their desire, whether it is #1 overall, MMs, friendliness, etc, etc.

Crunchers are no different than any other form of hobby or sport folks. They need a team banner they can line up behind, whose goals and philosophy they agree with. Right now, we claim "anything goes", but that's why so many have already left. And why new members don't seem to be super active or even know where to start. If we don't set a coarse and stick to it, then we have already chosen mediocrity for ourselves by choosing not define ourselves.

Just remember this before you add some more flames on the fire: the original SETI.USA founders put their balls on the line and said, "We will be #1". And, in time, so they became.
Once that goal was achieved, however, their vision became less clear, and the next goal was hazy...a definitive target was not outlined, and the team began to fall, floundering in the bitter darkness that all greatness inevitably sinks to for a time before it surges onward to greater feats...or sputters out like a candle in the wind.

Today we stand together in the gap. If we hold, there is promise of a brighter tomorrow. We are that thin, defining line between the future as a winning team and nothingness for SETI.USA. Where is that line today? What will we become?

[DrBob]

...It might be a good idea to employ "Roberts Rules of Order" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberts_Rules_of_Order) here as well as any thread regarding team policy...Mr. Chairman, Point of order…

RONR are great for large groups meeting face to face but were never meant to be used (and will not work well, if at all) in an electronic forum. Besides, how many here are actually familiar with RONR?

Appropriate decorum by all members posting is all that is required for meaningful discussion on these boards.

[joker]

Im with Tera.

[Dandasarge]

We must rid ourselves of the notion that we can be all things to all people...that is, if we want to excel at any one thing. Cliche time..."jack of all trades, master of none", etc, etc. Those sayings came into being for a reason.



Ever met a company called Wal-Mart? Microsoft? Both company's that are masters of many things. Individuals will never master all, teams can. Look at Lockheed Martin do you want to know why they are the largest defense contractor in the world? Because they are the master of everything they do. Find me one things they don't? Look inside of a dell some time, I've seen 5-6 company's inside of one dell different things coming together to produce one product. The difference between us and a normal sport is that we have no limits except that of what we accomplish. We have no player limit and we have no equipment limit. One person could never do what a team can. Nor should one person try and understand it as such. We should more work like a league many branches working together but in different areas in there own way.

[Fire$torm]

Mr. Chairman, Point of order…

RONR are great for large groups meeting face to face but were never meant to be used (and will not work well, if at all) in an electronic forum. Besides, how many here are actually familiar with RONR?

Appropriate decorum by all members posting is all that is required for meaningful discussion on these boards.


Im with Tera.

OK, I see your point. I just hope everyone understands the full definition of decorum and how it applies to this method of communication. That has not always been the case (myself included).

[DrPop]

Dandasarge,
You are a very brilliant individual, and we shouldn't be disagreeing on this one, so I do not think we are looking at this the same way. Let me try a different slant:

Walmart excels at one thing only: low cost imports. We have it from their CEO himself, [those products where there is] "no more value added by expertise in the work force". That's it. Pure and simple, that's what Walmart does. And, they do it well, as you pointed out.
You going to go to Walmart for a high end sound system or a cheap one? How about some nice jewelry for your wife (thnk Tiffany's or better) vs some "cheap stuff" for your daughter (think Walmart).

We could go on with the other companies, but I think you see what I mean. Every organization, whether it is a company or not, has a stated purpose.
Like I said earlier, I'm not dictating or even stating what ours should be - just that we must have one. Even if it's "To have the most fun crunching BOINC projects".

Yes, we could say we want to be #1 overall, and have the most MMs, but neither camp is ever going to see eye to eye. And then there are those who want to crunch a certain project for its real world value, regardless of BOINC credit awarded. It's a philosophic battle. No one is right and no one is wrong -it just is.

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution. ;)

Hope that clears things up a little.

[Dandasarge]

Dandasarge,
You are a very brilliant individual, and we shouldn't be disagreeing on this one, so I do not think we are looking at this the same way. Let me try a different slant:

Walmart excels at one thing only: low cost imports. We have it from their CEO himself, [those products where there is] "no more value added by expertise in the work force". That's it. Pure and simple, that's what Walmart does. And, they do it well, as you pointed out.
You going to go to Walmart for a high end sound system or a cheap one? How about some nice jewelry for your wife (thnk Tiffany's or better) vs some "cheap stuff" for your daughter (think Walmart).

We could go on with the other companies, but I think you see what I mean. Every organization, whether it is a company or not, has a stated purpose.
Like I said earlier, I'm not dictating or even stating what ours should be - just that we must have one. Even if it's "To have the most fun crunching BOINC projects".

Yes, we could say we want to be #1 overall, and have the most MMs, but neither camp is ever going to see eye to eye. And then there are those who want to crunch a certain project for its real world value, regardless of BOINC credit awarded. It's a philosophic battle. No one is right and no one is wrong -it just is.

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution. ;)

Hope that clears things up a little.

We are looking at this vary different. When I look at wal-mart I see the 20 or so company's Wal-Mart is that makes it great. True the main part everyone knows. There is the Wal-Mart bank, real estate company, investment company, logistic company. Production company's. All hidden under the store. but without them wal-marts bottom line wouldn't be 1/2 of what it is.

At least you understand what I'm saying at least.

I also understand that we can't make everyone happy. Nor should we try. We also can't start every where at once. It really doesn't matter where we start but should form that committee so they can advise us on how its is to be organized.

so how do you set up one of those vote things?

[Beerdrinker]

Dandasarge,
You are a very brilliant individual, and we shouldn't be disagreeing on this one, so I do not think we are looking at this the same way. Let me try a different slant:

Walmart excels at one thing only: low cost imports. We have it from their CEO himself, [those products where there is] "no more value added by expertise in the work force". That's it. Pure and simple, that's what Walmart does. And, they do it well, as you pointed out.
You going to go to Walmart for a high end sound system or a cheap one? How about some nice jewelry for your wife (thnk Tiffany's or better) vs some "cheap stuff" for your daughter (think Walmart).

We could go on with the other companies, but I think you see what I mean. Every organization, whether it is a company or not, has a stated purpose.
Like I said earlier, I'm not dictating or even stating what ours should be - just that we must have one. Even if it's "To have the most fun crunching BOINC projects".

Yes, we could say we want to be #1 overall, and have the most MMs, but neither camp is ever going to see eye to eye. And then there are those who want to crunch a certain project for its real world value, regardless of BOINC credit awarded. It's a philosophic battle. No one is right and no one is wrong -it just is.

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution. ;)

Hope that clears things up a little.

+1 :cool:


That´s probably the best idea I have heard yet!

One division could come to others aid, in the time of challenge....

[STMahlberg]

I wish I had more time to address all of this but I have to get to work so I will try to be short.


OK, I see your point. I just hope everyone understands the full definition of decorum and how it applies to this method of communication. That has not always been the case (myself included).


This and Fire$torm's original post about Robert's Rules is something that we need to keep in mind when posting. I am guilty as well of not following a decorum, I have attacked the messenger when the message was valid just because I didn't like the delivery...



Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution. ;)

Hope that clears things up a little.

This and DrPop's other post is most excellent; this is something we need to do, and do it NOW. We have all seen the numbers there is no denying we are slipping and in trouble. WE have all seen it and WE have all done nothing about this predicament.

WE need to ACT and not be afraid that we 'might' make someone unhappy... frankly, I'm unhappy and we can't keep doing more of the same and expect a different result.

So let's DO this NOW!