Why did DrPop's rig catch on FIRE?

[DrPop]

EDIT: After some googling I came up with the problem. MSI has a 4 phase power design on this board, apparently, and it is the mosfets that caught on fire. I guess better boards have heat-sinks there, and this had none.
So...you think this is covered under warranty by any stretch of the imagination, or am I just going to have to eat it?

Up until this point I've been crunching with an AMD quad core with no problems at all. In the HAF932, there's definitely enough airflow, too.
The motherboard is an MSI 870A-G54.
Newegg link here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130275&Tpk=870A-G54

MSI link here: http://www.msi.com/product/mb/870A-G54.html#/?div=CPUSupport

I purchased the X6 1090T this morning at Frys. Pulled out the quad and had the X6 running in minutes! Had it crunching maybe 45 Min. on PG, and everything appeared to be alright. Glad I stuck around to keep an eye on it, though, because it just caught on fire! Didn't even get a chance to do an O/C or anything yet. :((
Newegg link for CPU here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103849

AMD link here: http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/processors/phenom-ii/Pages/phenom-ii-model-number-comparison.aspx

Good thing the HAF-932 case is pretty much see through. I heard a little noise, and turned my head to see a flame about the size you would expect from a Bic lighter, coming from over by the CPU. Of course, at that point, it shut itself off as I was scrambling to unplug it and all that.

Looking at it in the light, it is obvious that the little black squares in between the chokes and the capacitors are what caught on fire. Two of them are split wide open.
EDIT: I now know these are called Mosfets, and you can mouse over the picture on the MSI link and see the little black squares in between the chokes and the caps that caught fire.

According to their website, this board should be well within spec to run an AMD X6. Claims it even goes to 140W CPU capability, and this CPU is 125W.

Very much spontaneous, no warning at all. What's crazy is that the load on the entire computer was less today than before, because I pulled the 5850 out earlier last night, and only had ONE GPU - the 5870 running in the box with the 1090T.
PSU is a fairly good one - ANTEC 650W Earthwatts. Link here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371015

And HSF works well enough, it's not like CPU was that hot. Link: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200056&cm_re=rosewill_fan-_-35-200-056-_-Product

Wonder if there is any kind of warranty on the mobo for stuff like this? Anything I'm missing anything else here, or do you think this should have worked just fine from the specs given on their website and at Newegg?

[Mike029]

Sorry about the problem Pop.
I'll scratch MSI MB off my short list of MB's for my new builds. I was looking at the same board your using based on your post to F$. I'll look at the Asus board unless someone here has another idea for an am3 md for a AMD x4 chip?

[STMahlberg]

Oh man... sorry to hear about the problem DrPop. :(

[STMahlberg]

Sorry about the problem Pop.
I'll scratch MSI MB off my short list of MB's for my new builds. I was looking at the same board your using based on your post to F$. I'll look at the Asus board unless someone here has another idea for an am3 md for a AMD x4 chip?

I'm running a MSI 890FXA-GD70 AM3 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274) motherboard with the AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Thuban 3.3GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103913&cm_re=amd_1100T-_-19-103-913-_-Product) CPU with no problems.

[Dorsilfin]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130297

im running this with a 1090T Six core AMD at 3.2ghz. Also running dual 570's.

This board has Fuzion technology which allows you to mix and match ATI/Nvidia cards and get performance from both of them.



Sucks about your board blowing. Freaking lame! We need a new market for those who push their rigs hard all the time :D haha I went with the board above for the well beefy components and the fuzion tech. havnt been dissapointed yet.

[Mr. Hankey]

I would expect that you should be covered by the warranty, it is less than a year old right? I would open up a support ticket right away. For me, I personally build all my rigs with ASUS MBs I have not yet had one catch fire.

[joker]

Wow! That is just wrong. :mad:

[DrPop]

Thanks for the sympathy and letting me whine a little, guys. :p It's just pretty lame to have saved up a small fortune (to me at least) for the X6 and then have it down the mobo like that.

To anyone like Mike doing a build - check out the pictures of those MSI mobos that Dorsilfin and STM have - they have huge heatsinks over the MOSFETS - I did not even realize how important this is on a "high end" rig, until now.
So, it's not like we can make a blanket statement, "MSI mobos are bad"...they're actually fairly good, I think. It's just that mine had no heatsinks over the MOSFETS.

So...I've been racking my brain, trying to figure out what happened. I think this is it:
I had the quad O/Ced pretty high, and that running 24/7 for days. Can't even think when the last time I shut it off was. Without me realizing it, those MOSFETS must have been right at their limit - "piping hot, if you will", just with the O/Ced quad.
Then, I shut the rig off for literally just a few minutes, I must have been like a NASCAR pit crew, but for computers, it was 10:03 AM when I got back from FRY's, and I wanted that thing ON like yesterday.

So, bottom line, the mobo didn't get a chance to cool down at all, and then when I threw the X6 in there, it must have just pushed it over the edge.
How's that for a synopsis? If I'm sitting on the side-lines now, I can at least come up with some good conspiracy theories, can't I? ;)

OK, I feel a little better about it all, there seems to be a logical explanation, especially when I look at the giant heatsinks on your boards - with any luck I could get a new mobo under warranty...then sell it on Ebay, and add a little $ to it and get one of the more "beefy" models.
Thanks to all again. I'll call MSI and see what they say.
Pops

[Fire$torm]

Holy Toledo!
Man that totally bites like nobodies business.

OK, those MOSFETS (Metal Oxide Semiconductor Field Effect Transistor) are high speed switching devices but can be used in various non-switching modes. Based on where the MOSFETs are installed I think they are being used as voltage controllers and frequency generators/amplifiers for the CPU.

I did a quick search on the net and most of what I saw were only "concerns" about a potential overheating problem. Although One post spoke of MOSFETs going "boom" in reference to an older model MSI board.

So some possibilities for MOSFETs burning
1) Defective MOSFETs/MB components.
2) Incorrect or corrupted settings in BIOS.
3) AM3 CPU socket shorting out.
4) PSU voltage spike
5) Defective CPU

Based on the fact you have had that board for some time and working it almost nonstop makes failing slightly less likely relative to the other possibilities. Since the 1090T was newly installed, my red flags are #3 and #5.

I would recommend examining the CPU socket with a Mini-Maglite and a magnifying glass. Look for signs of arcing between pins, metal or conductive fragments, and signs of TIM seepage in or around the socket. Then examine the CPU itself in the same way.

The MB should be covered. I would defiantly return the CPU to Fry's for testing. If it runs for them then its still good but I would still demand a new replacement.

[DrPop]

Wow, you're right, I never even considered there could be a short with one of the pins on the CPU or something a little bit off like that. I immediately went to the mobo as the cause - but I agree, I will look into having them test this CPU or replace it - as well.

[John P. Myers]

Wow, you're right, I never even considered there could be a short with one of the pins on the CPU or something a little bit off like that. I immediately went to the mobo as the cause - but I agree, I will look into having them test this CPU or replace it - as well.

Yeah i'm with F$ on that one. Another thing to consider about a new board though is the number of mosfets. More of them divides the work between them all, allowing them to run a tad cooler (the amount cooler will not be proportional to the increase in mosfets though). Also, the voltage supplied to the CPU is more steady and even, allowing for higher overclocks with a stable system. Personally, i have to recommend this Gigabyte board. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128441) Notice the heatsink with heatpipe over the mosfet. Good stuff.

I wish you luck and sorry this happened :(

[DrPop]

Yeah i'm with F$ on that one. Another thing to consider about a new board though is the number of mosfets...Personally, i have to recommend this Gigabyte board. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128441) Notice the heatsink with heatpipe over the mosfet...(

Yeah, that is sweet looking. My board doesn't have anything like that, they're just hanging out in the open. What a crazy huge heat pipe for the MOSFETs...nice.

So...I was told I have to submit an RMA request online, which I will do in a few minutes, and I'll see if Fry's will exchange or at least test that CPU. When looking for a new "beefy" mobo, how do you know the number of MOSFETs or its power phase design - I don't see that stuff listed on all models. This is a part of mobo purchasing I never thought about before - but then, I never ran my computers more than a few hours at a time when gaming, etc, before I was a "cruncher" either.

Just to clear things up - I'm sure MSI mobos are really pretty good - it just happens the model I have doesn't have the heatsinks like some of their more expensive ones do. Mostly because I never knew why I needed all that. :D Now I know...:p

[John P. Myers]

MSI makes decent stuff. Unless something happened to the socket itself or there is some defect with the CPU, i don't see why this would've happened otherwise since you didn't have the chip overclocked.

On that board i showed, when at the newegg site, click the "details" tab under the picture of the board. Scroll down til you see the "Features" section, just above the warranty info. You'll see a line that says "Advanced 8+2 phase CPU VRM power design for AMD high-TDP 140W CPU support" If a board doesn't give this info, you can assume it's just the standard 4 or 5 mosfets (or *cringe* less, or they just got lazy on the item descriptions).

[joker]

Or perhaps it was LAF sabotage! :p

[STMahlberg]

Sure glad that I bought a rents insurance policy today for 10K. While I was talking with the young lady she was asking about jewelry, watched and furs... I told her all of my assets were tight up in computers. She then said that since I had so many systems that I may want to consider an additional rider policy that will cover all of the systems and the software.

I hadn't even thought of that I have about 5K in software alone.

Something to think about if you rent like I do. We are not common folks who only have one or two computers. :)

[Harley]

This might have something to do with it. Taken from the PG website.



ATTENTION: The primality program LLR is CPU intensive; so, it is vital to have a stable system with good cooling. It does not tolerate "even the slightest of errors." Please see this post for more details on how you can "stress test" your computer. WU's will take ~5 minutes on fast/newer computers and 15+ minutes on slower/older computers. If your computer is highly overclocked, please consider "stress testing" it. Sieving is an excellent alternative for computers that are not able to LLR. :)

Please, please, please make sure your machines are up to the task.


Or what? Your board will catch fire?

[Maxwell]

Sure glad that I bought a rents insurance policy today for 10K. While I was talking with the young lady she was asking about jewelry, watched and furs... I told her all of my assets were tight up in computers. She then said that since I had so many systems that I may want to consider an additional rider policy that will cover all of the systems and the software.

I hadn't even thought of that I have about 5K in software alone.

Something to think about if you rent like I do. We are not common folks who only have one or two computers. :)
You, sir, are brilliant. Never thought of this. I'll have to check with my insurance company...

[DrPop]

Or perhaps it was LAF sabotage! :p

@Joker - Hahaha! Yeah, that thought almost crossed my mind too.

@Harley - Sure thing - I think I found out what the "or else" was! :p

On a more serious note: I think I found THE mobo for DrPop. Take a look at this link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157196

It even has a FAN on the MOSFETs! :D:))

[Fire$torm]

@Joker - Hahaha! Yeah, that thought almost crossed my mind too.

@Harley - Sure thing - I think I found out what the "or else" was! :p

On a more serious note: I think I found THE mobo for DrPop. Take a look at this link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157196

It even has a FAN on the MOSFETs! :D:))

Yeppers, its a nice board. Three PCIe x16 slots and a good feature set. :-bd

The Gigabyte UD MB's have two advantages over ASRock & Asus offerings. A 3 year parts & labor warranty and UD (Ultra Durable) design. The UD concept implements thicker copper tracings and a thicker copper ground plane layer which dissipates heat better and reduces electrical resistance between motherboard components. But non have triple PCIe x16 slots :(

[John P. Myers]

Yeppers, its a nice board. Three PCIe x16 slots and a good feature set. :-bd

The Gigabyte UD MB's have two advantages over ASRock & Asus offerings. A 3 year parts & labor warranty and UD (Ultra Durable) design. The UD concept implements thicker copper tracings and a thicker copper ground plane layer which dissipates heat better and reduces electrical resistance between motherboard components. But non have triple PCIe x16 slots :(

Yeah Gigabyte's warranty is far better and the UD design does in fact dissipate heat more efficiently and reduce the ohm load on the circuit. None have triple PCIe x16 slots? This board, (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128441) (which i recommended yesterday) has 4. Isn't 4 better than 3? :p

Another advantage of the Gigabyte board is slot 7 is a PCI slot, and slot 6 is a PCIe, meaning a double-width card won't be sitting on top of a couple SATA connections, COM connection, USB etc. connection as it will on the ASrock board. Not that this isn't doable, but it'd be a real pain to have to remove the GPU just to access these connections.

[Fire$torm]

None have triple PCIe x16 slots? This board, (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128441) (which i recommended yesterday) has 4. Isn't 4 better than 3? :p

Humph..... No! 4 is not 3!!! ........... And my Amp goes to ELEVEN!

=)) OK, OK. I concede. I was using Newegg's advanced search column and totally missed trying a search for 4 PCIe slots..... My bad.

[DrPop]

Thanks for the heads up on the motherboards, guys. They do look very nice. I will wait and see what MSI determines, now that I have shipped my mobo in for the RMA. Which ever board I replace it with will be determined by "hobby cash" on hand at that time, and the best spec I can get for that price. Hopefully I can get a 3 or 4 PCI-e x16 mobo for a future rig like STM's new machine.

I'm sure I'll be posting back to the Hardware Forum for advice at that time.
Good luck with the race without me (Kat, my bro's AMD dually, and my lowly "Front Desk" P4 will have to be my proxy this time!) ;)