Could use some help for these team MegaMilestones: Jan 2011

[Bok]

I'll give you my take on this..

Yes, other people on other teams are interested in the MM's. I've had quite a few emails/PM's etc from a diversity of teams. Everyone tends to be different and to each their own as to particular goals, whatever makes it fun is what you should do IMO. A number of times over the years my interest has started to wane for differing reasons, but then I look for a new challenge.

That's how the MM's came about. I've got a passion for statistics I guess and I enjoy working with databases. Calculating the MM's is just another way of analyzing the data I collect. Milestones in particular fascinate me, especially the trend analysis of them.

My recent work has been to record the (1st to xxxxxx) milestones. Might badgify (tm) these.. Just a pity I don't have milestone data prior to April 2008.

[DrPop]

OK, thanks to all who responded there. Like I said, wasn't in my mind to start a ruckus - it is no secret what I personally, would like to see for this team's future - this was just to bounce some ideas around.

I personally like to crunch for max credits, and then it's cool to see the MMs come - like hitting 10Mil in something or 50Mil or whatever...that's really cool to see it measured like that! I like the progress factor.

I wearing two hats here, though. For the next 12 months (if ya'll let me finish out my term , I have to try to figure out how to grow this team; where to put my effort until the next admin is chosen. Obviously, becoming a farmer and cranking out as many credits as I can while my name's in red here, well, that's part one of strategy. If folks can see I'm putting some blood and sweat and tears into this, then maybe, just maybe it will help unify for the cause a little.

The next part of the strategy is trying to get other (primarily USA based) teams to help / merge with us to present a larger USA front to the International BOINC community on challenges, and score boards etc. We're working on it, but have met with serious resistance (not like it wasn't expected, but you still have to put the effort out.)

Third phase, which I'm still mulling over and haven't even started yet, is the marketing campaign.
To quote zombie "you think "total team credits" are important, right? Why? Because you think so? Or because you think others think so? Or...?"

OK, here's the honest truth. If I didn't think other crunchers out there, or any new, or future crunchers "cared" about who was on top, that "#1 Overall World Wide" position would hold little appeal. I would honestly crunch things like Einstein because I like what they're doing.
However, let's be honest with each other. People are superficial. Waaaaay too superficial, let me tell you. In my business I run in to that constantly.
I know that people, once they get "hooked" on crunching, or even just start out of curiosity, well, many don't even join a team. They don't know much about it. The ones that do join a team, join either because of friendship - pull - or they join a "big team". Why? Because folks just want to be winners. It's psychology. You can't reason that out of people. MUCH MORE of our decisions are based on emotion than fact. Maxwell, of all people, can tell you more about this than anyone due to his education.

Therefore, it is imperative that we climb as high in the World Wide Rankings as possible; to strive to attain that #1 overall mark as a goal. It doesn't so much matter that we are #1 today, as the knowledge that we are striving for, and will get there someday. That is the attitude that makes a difference. That is the desire, the "burning" that will bring big crunchers, little crunchers, dedicated crunchers - all of them - to our team.

However, and this is where my question comes in: Are there crunchers out there who are saying, "hmmm...what team has the most 100K's? I'd like to join that one." Or another who says, "hmmm....what team has the most 10Mil's? I have a lot of those, so I'd like to go there."
IF - and it's a BIG IF - there are crunchers new and old, out there who are looking at the stats that way, then our "marketing" pitch and attitude should be to provide a nice place for some of them.

That is why I'm asking the question. How many of those folks are out there? Are they a large %? Even if they are a small % of the total, do they have a large % of the firepower (like Paul L, and Zombie, etc.)
Those are some questions that might make MM's more meaningful to those of us trying to grow the team. My "discussion" has nothing to do with whether or not "#1 Overall" or "MM's" are a "better" way of determining a team's strength or progress. It is literally to each their own - there is, and never will be - cross project parity.
It is simply a matter of deciding together how much weight we should throw into MM's as a team - because they can easily be a personal goal - but we're talking about a team goal here...one of growing, thriving, and being the happiest, most satisfied, best working BOINC team in the world.

[Mumps]

Well, DrPop, how about this as a take on your thought process. If having your name at the top of the BOINC overall list seems important, wouldn't it also be great to see your name at the top of most every list a potential recruit might run into? If you start meandering through all these neat little stats pages, and spot that TeamA is in the Top5 in, like, Everything, and happens to align with your interests/nationality/etc, that may sway a Team decision as well. Similar to seeing it mentioned predominantly in all the various Project forums in their Team Recruitment threads...

As Maxwell and Zombie67 mentioned, it really comes down to what catches your eye at the time you're looking around at this stuff.

[Shadow]

It certainly is hard to find a list of stats that we aren't somewhere near the top in. But it also irks me that SG and Laf are 1 and 2 overall. I'm fairly certain we have more high end, high production equipment than they do. We just need to figure out the best way to deploy it to keep the MM's rolling AND make it to the top at the same time.

[joker]

Just a thought here: This is an open forum right?? IMHO, this sort of stuff should be talked about "in house". Again, just a thought.

[Cruncher Pete]

Let me say my two cents worth from an outsider point of view. I am saying an outsider because I am not a full time member and as such I feel my thoughts might just add to ways of improving a team that is already recognized by most as one of the leaders in the field.

You might know the old saying "A Jack of all trades and a master of none", and another, "Together we'll conquer, divided we'll fall". Those two sayings suits the subject under discussion.

So, let's talk about the Jack of all trades first. Whilst you have lots of members, individually they all tend to crunch a project of their choice. For example, I started crunching in memory of relatives and friends who died of cancer and Muscular Dystrophy. As such, initially I chose to crunch WCG and Rosetta. In time I got hooked and expanded to other Biomedical field type projects. Soon, my competitive nature took over and I joined a Team. Because I live in Australia, I joined the biggest team BOINC@Australia because a newcomer or in this case me I felt safe in the comfort of a winning team. After awhile I felt that the team politics did not suit me and they did not have an effective leader I left and created a new team called Aussie Alliance. Unfortunately, I am not a genius in attracting new members and I handed over the leadership of this team to another member leaving me free to do what I wanted, crunch for whoever I wanted and join and or leave a team according to my wishes. One of the things that I did not like about BOINC@Australia was the lack of internal strive or perhaps more correctly their lack of sticking together to make the team get ahead and reach a higher goal. Consequently this team has achieved some great milestones but they are stuck in a loop because they are divided too much without any chance of becoming the top team. Not unlike the Jack of all trades master of none saying.

During the second world war there was a great propaganda person by the name of Goebells in Nazi Germany. This guy in particular was so good at what he was doing that he united the people of Germany for their cause right or wrong and followed Hitler. Now, this might be an extreme example of the united we stand divided we fall cliché it serves to illustrate that if somebody could convince the membership to follow a predetermined Goal whether it be the top team in the world or the top in MM or in deed in any challenge it can be done. On the other hand if the membership continue to follow their own nose you will achieve great results because of the number of members but will never be on top in anything.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it is extremely difficult to recruit new members because in the current economic crisis because people are leaving rather than joining BOINC. So rather than trying a campaign to recruit, why not try an internal campaign to convince current members to set a goal and all stick to it. Having said that one should realize that members are individuals and if pressed too hard they might even leave because it might be perceived as team politics and some just like to crunch irrespective. There is no easy solution...

[Maxwell]

Thanks for chiming in with that, Pete! I agree with pretty much everything, especially the last statement.

[DrPop]

Thank you all for the small discussion, especially Cruncher Pete for your "semi-team / semi-outsider" viewpoint. Very fitting; whilst my name is in red on these forums, I am hesitant to push too hard toward any one particular goal, lest I be accused of being the last straw that broke the camel's back. That is why I gave up "leadership" of the BlackOps division at the same time. It is an interesting thing, being an Admin on the forum, because you are only a "quasi-leader", and not in truth, the leader of the team. It is very apparent this team has no "rightful leader" at the moment, and we do need to put our heads together on how best to fix that. Possibly a charter similar to what TeaM has ratified or similar type agreement may be in order. Let us all ponder that a bit.

Well, as Joker said, and he is right, I had forgotten this was a public forum. My apologies for that, I will not hijack this thread any longer, and let us resume discussion at a later point and in the private Team Forum.

[Fire$torm]

Out of curiosity....

Anyone interested in doing a new and updated version of this thread for 2013?

[Duke of Buckingham]

Yhea, 2013 is the year of the Eagle a new thread of MM would be very welcome.

Do it please F$.