SETI.USA NEEDS A STEERING COMMITTEE NOW.

[SUncleSamA]

Well this has been interesting reading. It looks like many of the other threads concerning making a decision here: that have some serious responses, both pro and con, and some funny but useless posts. But the end points looks like the usual nothing will get done.

It also contains some incorrect and manufactured assumptions. The SC is not telling members or dictating what will be done. It's making team recommendation and providing guidance where needed. It can't force anyone to do something they don't want to do. To try to do that would be self as defeating as it was in the past. It is composed of members who are aware what occurred before and will work to avoid that since the collective conscience of the team has changed. So have confidence in the current membership and give them a chance.

One person can't tell you what to do nor can 1000. So start with 13 and see what happens. You might be pleasantly surprised and the team will benefit. If you are OK with where the team is now with fragmented solutions then stay the course but a little structure or planning can go a long way towards where this team and it's members seem to want to go.

If someone can't do one of the tasks mentioned in Post 1 then assign or get someone else to do it. I only named names to keep the ball rolling and have them above board.

[Teratoma]

Why don't you try becoming an active member of this team for ...oh, I don't know....3 months or so. Join us in some other projects and participate a little more here. Get to know us better. More importantly, let us get to know you better. Perhaps some of us may actually take you more seriously then.

[STMahlberg]

I will start off by saying that I hope that this discussion will not fizzle out like the other threads of similar content have in the past.

There are many good points that have been brought up, I can certainly understand that no one wishes to have a repeat of recent history and have to go through another exodus but at the same time we should not be afraid of something that 'might' happen.

We should not be afraid to take actions that have the potential to improve this team. I know it has been said that, "we have tried that before and failed." Keep in mind this team has changed since then... we have some new members and some of the old members are gone.

So what is the harm in trying once again? Imagine the benefits if it works!

Perhaps you don't like the term Steering Committee, perhaps it's to stringent of a term but regardless of what you call it, it is a compass or perhaps better a sextant. An instrument that can tell us where we are and which way we are headed.

To have such a device in place does not take away peoples choice, it provides choices with better information and nothing will take away free will.

DrPop is correct... we are loosing ground. So how's it feel to be 3rd in the world in credit and 5th in RAC? Do you like it? Do you like being loosers to France??? We have a frakin state bigger than their whole damn country!

The writing on the wall. We need to make decisions and then ACT on those decisions. No one is going to be made to crunch anything against their will.

I know that we all like to do different things here, we all have our pet projects but I believe that we can all do our own thing and still have a more focused direction.

Just more thoughts...

[Fire$torm]

Here I come to save the day....... Now don't be a hater (This is a joke. This is only a joke)

OK my 2%. The fire has been stoked so we can feed it and see if it can clear a path back to SETI.USA being #1 by any measure or we can let it burn itself out.

It might be a good idea to employ "Roberts Rules of Order" here as well as any thread regarding team policy. Just a thought.

There have been many good points and ideas posted in this thread. Also valid warnings that should not be ignored. That said, it should never be a bad time to do or try things that have the goal of HELPING the team.

Personally, I prefer the concept of groups that can focus resources based on a like minded idea. There are team members that live for Mega Milestones so why not have a MM focus group for that purpose. A POTM group is a killer idea. I do the currently unofficial Team Focus Project-MilkyWay@Home and will probably never stop crunching it.

Since this team has, from its inception, been a crunch what you want thing, then let us USE it to our advantage. I think one of the factors (As there have been many) that led to many members leaving this team has been a lack of consistency in certain areas like the Team Newsletter. Some would call it an absence of commitment. Well, so be it. That was the past. All roads lead to the future. If one's attention is fully on what has gone by then that one cannot successfully navigate what is directly in front of them.

If our new poster is in fact an old friend then that may be an indication of a serious problem with SETI.USA. Think about it. If a former member needs the vale of anonymity in order to attempt motivating this team, that is a very scary thought. No former member should EVER feel the need to hide who they are in order to be heard. And I for one do not like even the possibility of it.

Nuff said, for now....

[DrPop]

Alright, "for now..." just ended, because I can't hold it back any longer.

We must rid ourselves of the notion that we can be all things to all people...that is, if we want to excel at any one thing. Cliche time..."jack of all trades, master of none", etc, etc. Those sayings came into being for a reason.

Let's try this another way. Pick a team sport. Any one. Emphasis on team here, not individual sports. Pick your favorite player. If you picked a football player, is he/she much good at say, basketball? How about a relay team...think they're worth much in a hockey match? Ad finem....

Why do people seem to think BOINC is any different than anything else in life? This isn't a sacred cow here. The same rules apply to BOINC as every other group undertaking in life. Every single sport, business, enterprise - whatever it is, insert it here - has goals, purpose, direction, backing...or eventually, it fails.
Our team refuses to define itself. We must lay down in black and white exactly what we stand for, what our mission is, and it has to be tangible. Measurable, to check if we're even accomplishing it. I really don't care what you all want to pick for those - I might be interested, or might not be in this team after a true direction is chosen, but that's just it. We are letting the fear of losing more members keep us from making a decision. So we lose them anyway, to a bolder team willing to define itself, or one that particularly calls to their desire, whether it is #1 overall, MMs, friendliness, etc, etc.

Crunchers are no different than any other form of hobby or sport folks. They need a team banner they can line up behind, whose goals and philosophy they agree with. Right now, we claim "anything goes", but that's why so many have already left. And why new members don't seem to be super active or even know where to start. If we don't set a coarse and stick to it, then we have already chosen mediocrity for ourselves by choosing not define ourselves.

Just remember this before you add some more flames on the fire: the original SETI.USA founders put their balls on the line and said, "We will be #1". And, in time, so they became.
Once that goal was achieved, however, their vision became less clear, and the next goal was hazy...a definitive target was not outlined, and the team began to fall, floundering in the bitter darkness that all greatness inevitably sinks to for a time before it surges onward to greater feats...or sputters out like a candle in the wind.

Today we stand together in the gap. If we hold, there is promise of a brighter tomorrow. We are that thin, defining line between the future as a winning team and nothingness for SETI.USA. Where is that line today? What will we become?

[Dandasarge]

We must rid ourselves of the notion that we can be all things to all people...that is, if we want to excel at any one thing. Cliche time..."jack of all trades, master of none", etc, etc. Those sayings came into being for a reason.

Ever met a company called Wal-Mart? Microsoft? Both company's that are masters of many things. Individuals will never master all, teams can. Look at Lockheed Martin do you want to know why they are the largest defense contractor in the world? Because they are the master of everything they do. Find me one things they don't? Look inside of a dell some time, I've seen 5-6 company's inside of one dell different things coming together to produce one product. The difference between us and a normal sport is that we have no limits except that of what we accomplish. We have no player limit and we have no equipment limit. One person could never do what a team can. Nor should one person try and understand it as such. We should more work like a league many branches working together but in different areas in there own way.

[DrPop]

Dandasarge,
You are a very brilliant individual, and we shouldn't be disagreeing on this one, so I do not think we are looking at this the same way. Let me try a different slant:

Walmart excels at one thing only: low cost imports. We have it from their CEO himself, [those products where there is] "no more value added by expertise in the work force". That's it. Pure and simple, that's what Walmart does. And, they do it well, as you pointed out.
You going to go to Walmart for a high end sound system or a cheap one? How about some nice jewelry for your wife (thnk Tiffany's or better) vs some "cheap stuff" for your daughter (think Walmart).

We could go on with the other companies, but I think you see what I mean. Every organization, whether it is a company or not, has a stated purpose.
Like I said earlier, I'm not dictating or even stating what ours should be - just that we must have one. Even if it's "To have the most fun crunching BOINC projects".

Yes, we could say we want to be #1 overall, and have the most MMs, but neither camp is ever going to see eye to eye. And then there are those who want to crunch a certain project for its real world value, regardless of BOINC credit awarded. It's a philosophic battle. No one is right and no one is wrong -it just is.

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution.

Hope that clears things up a little.

[Dandasarge]

Dandasarge,
You are a very brilliant individual, and we shouldn't be disagreeing on this one, so I do not think we are looking at this the same way. Let me try a different slant:

Walmart excels at one thing only: low cost imports. We have it from their CEO himself, [those products where there is] "no more value added by expertise in the work force". That's it. Pure and simple, that's what Walmart does. And, they do it well, as you pointed out.
You going to go to Walmart for a high end sound system or a cheap one? How about some nice jewelry for your wife (thnk Tiffany's or better) vs some "cheap stuff" for your daughter (think Walmart).

We could go on with the other companies, but I think you see what I mean. Every organization, whether it is a company or not, has a stated purpose.
Like I said earlier, I'm not dictating or even stating what ours should be - just that we must have one. Even if it's "To have the most fun crunching BOINC projects".

Yes, we could say we want to be #1 overall, and have the most MMs, but neither camp is ever going to see eye to eye. And then there are those who want to crunch a certain project for its real world value, regardless of BOINC credit awarded. It's a philosophic battle. No one is right and no one is wrong -it just is.

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution.

Hope that clears things up a little.

We are looking at this vary different. When I look at wal-mart I see the 20 or so company's Wal-Mart is that makes it great. True the main part everyone knows. There is the Wal-Mart bank, real estate company, investment company, logistic company. Production company's. All hidden under the store. but without them wal-marts bottom line wouldn't be 1/2 of what it is.

At least you understand what I'm saying at least.

I also understand that we can't make everyone happy. Nor should we try. We also can't start every where at once. It really doesn't matter where we start but should form that committee so they can advise us on how its is to be organized.

so how do you set up one of those vote things?

[Beerdrinker]

Dandasarge,
You are a very brilliant individual, and we shouldn't be disagreeing on this one, so I do not think we are looking at this the same way. Let me try a different slant:

Walmart excels at one thing only: low cost imports. We have it from their CEO himself, [those products where there is] "no more value added by expertise in the work force". That's it. Pure and simple, that's what Walmart does. And, they do it well, as you pointed out.
You going to go to Walmart for a high end sound system or a cheap one? How about some nice jewelry for your wife (thnk Tiffany's or better) vs some "cheap stuff" for your daughter (think Walmart).

We could go on with the other companies, but I think you see what I mean. Every organization, whether it is a company or not, has a stated purpose.
Like I said earlier, I'm not dictating or even stating what ours should be - just that we must have one. Even if it's "To have the most fun crunching BOINC projects".

Yes, we could say we want to be #1 overall, and have the most MMs, but neither camp is ever going to see eye to eye. And then there are those who want to crunch a certain project for its real world value, regardless of BOINC credit awarded. It's a philosophic battle. No one is right and no one is wrong -it just is.

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution.

Hope that clears things up a little.

+1


That´s probably the best idea I have heard yet!

One division could come to others aid, in the time of challenge....

[STMahlberg]

I wish I had more time to address all of this but I have to get to work so I will try to be short.

OK, I see your point. I just hope everyone understands the full definition of decorum and how it applies to this method of communication. That has not always been the case (myself included).

This and Fire$torm's original post about Robert's Rules is something that we need to keep in mind when posting. I am guilty as well of not following a decorum, I have attacked the messenger when the message was valid just because I didn't like the delivery...

Now, we could do exactly what you proposed in a round-about way above: We could have divisions. This is what S.G. does. Seems to work well. We could each pick a division we like, and work within our "department' to be the best of the best in that category. For example, someone like Fire$torm could head the #1 overall division and someone like Maxwell could head the MM division. Each division would have its own set of parameters to work from, goals, etc. As long as everyone is willing to come together for the common good on team-wide challenges, that might be the perfect solution.

Hope that clears things up a little.

This and DrPop's other post is most excellent; this is something we need to do, and do it NOW. We have all seen the numbers there is no denying we are slipping and in trouble. WE have all seen it and WE have all done nothing about this predicament.

WE need to ACT and not be afraid that we 'might' make someone unhappy... frankly, I'm unhappy and we can't keep doing more of the same and expect a different result.

So let's DO this NOW!