Ryzen 3000

[John P. Myers]

3007
CPU naming scheme subject to change.


AMD’s CEO had already demo’d an 8 core Ryzen 3000 series 7nm processor back at CES earlier in the year. And the chip put on quite a surprise upset, outperforming Intel’s i9 9900K in Cinebench at stock clocks whilst consuming significantly fewer watts.

[John P. Myers]

Update: The 3850X should have a base clock of 4.3GHz and boost to 5.1GHz.

And since the 3000 series supports PCIe 4.0, m.2 SSDs with 5GB/s bandwidth are already in the works.

[zombie67]

Wow. Love the idea of even faster storage.

[John P. Myers]

Update: The 3700X and 3800X will be 8c/16t. The 3900X is 12c/24t. The 3950X is 16c/32t.

[John P. Myers]

Threadripper expected in Q4. 64c/128t.

[zombie67]

Err mu grrrrd!

I am really looking forward to seeing AVX (all versions) performance vs Intel. I have high hopes, but need to see it demonstrated.

[John P. Myers]

Intel is cutting CPU prices by ~15% because they're afraid of AMD's Ryzen 3000 series. Only applies to 9600K, 9700K, 9900K and 9900KS so far.

[DrPop]

Any demos or word on AMD's latest AVX performance compared to Intel for crunching?

[John P. Myers]

Any demos or word on AMD's latest AVX performance compared to Intel for crunching?When compared to previous Ryzen CPUs, the AVX2 speedup has been from 40% to double, depending on the application. Not sure how that compares with Intel in those specific apps but when the NDA lifts on July 7th we'll know more.

[DrPop]

Thanks! :-bd Sounds like they put some effort into it, at least. Looking forward to seeing their results in July.

[John P. Myers]

For what it's worth...
https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/graph_3.png

[John P. Myers]

DDR4 memory speed is tied to the infinity fabric on the 3000 series at a 1:1 ratio up to a RAM speed of 3733MHz. That mark is the sweet spot. If you run RAM faster (or slower) than that, you increase overall system memory latency.

[John P. Myers]

Wow. Love the idea of even faster storage.

Up to 5,000 MB/s and 750,000 IOPS using PCIe 4.0

Available for preorder on July 1st:
1 TB: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-aorus-1tb/p/N82E16820009012?Item=N82E16820009012&Tpk=20-009-012&fbclid=IwAR0PP13e2FjfEPOeDMGgBQ0A8ADfYUw7VPcvqgrhY xGUucY9_j3wQyZAcdE
2 TB: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-aorus-2-tb/p/N82E16820009013?Description=GIGABYTE%20AORUS%20M.2 %202280&cm_re=GIGABYTE_AORUS_M.2_2280-_-20-009-013-_-Product&fbclid=IwAR1qE3SywwQ40G5gjZ72TI82GtV64YlP-_wI-LZJ1OmuPivwA2ycdWHoqwc

Edit: Now that it can be preordered, they're showing the prices. Yeah...that's a pass from me. $480 for 2TB is a joke lol

[DrPop]

For what it's worth...
https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/graph_3.png

So they're supposed to have two even faster than this? (3850 and 3900?)
Wonder what the price will be like. This is the first I've been even remotely tempted to mothball an O/Ced 3930K rig for. ��

[John P. Myers]

There's 2 faster. The 3900X and 3950X as well. 3 more days until reviews

[zombie67]

Whoop! Looks like the 3000 is the real deal with FMA3/AVX2 stuff.

https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=8682&nowrap=true#130991

[John P. Myers]

Remember, the 3950X 16c/32t is still coming. Expected to be available in september.

[DrPop]

WOW! Thanks for finding that. Exactly what I was wondering. So after all this time, we FINALLY have a competitor to Intel's AVX. This is good stuff.


Whoop! Looks like the 3000 is the real deal with FMA3/AVX2 stuff.

https://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=8682&nowrap=true#130991

[DrPop]

@JPM or Zombie - what seems to be the sweet point with these rigs on performance / $ and performance / watt? I'd like to build up my first new rig in a long time this fall if possible. Maybe in a month or two if the timing is right. I haven't built anything since these (probably long in the tooth now!) i7 3930K rigs Bryan gave me a good deal on. I have an extra 860W Gold PSU sitting in the back room of our office but everything else will have to be new...

[John P. Myers]

@JPM or Zombie - what seems to be the sweet point with these rigs on performance / $ and performance / watt? I'd like to build up my first new rig in a long time this fall if possible. Maybe in a month or two if the timing is right. I haven't built anything since these (probably long in the tooth now!) i7 3930K rigs Bryan gave me a good deal on. I have an extra 860W Gold PSU sitting in the back room of our office but everything else will have to be new...Price/perf is 3700X. Perf/watt I'd say is 3900X so far. 3950X could beat it but would lose in price/perf since it's expected to be $750

[DrPop]

OK, thanks! I'll watch the prices here. Any idea when the 3950 is due to see if it's worth the wait?

EDIT: Not to derail this CPU thread, but are there any new "good deal" for crunching GPUs on the horizon or is it kind of we got what we got for a while and just look for a good sale around Labor Day or something like that?

[John P. Myers]

3950X is supposed to come out next month. Could be delayed a month due to really high demand of the 3900X. Some people who ordered one on launch day are still waiting lol

Radeon VII is still the best crunching GPU from AMD and 2080 Ti the best from Nvidia. Nothing spectacular going on for a few months with GPUs.

I did mention TR3 would be out in Q4, but i heard a rumor the other day it could be this month. It's possible but don't get your hopes up. Makes more sense to launch them in October which is when Intel is launching some new overpriced Xeons.

[Mumps]

Say what? :)

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-vii-end-of-life-status,39861.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx_5700-rx_5700_xt,6216.html

[John P. Myers]

Say what? :)

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-radeon-vii-end-of-life-status,39861.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx_5700-rx_5700_xt,6216.htmlYeah but neither of those Navi GPUs are better than the VII. Cheaper though.

[VietOZ]

the Navi is horrible at DC at the moment. I got the 50th anniversary one and very very disappointed.

7/15/2019 10:36:11 PM | | OpenCL: AMD/ATI GPU 0: AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary (driver version 2906.8 (PAL,LC), device version OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (2906.8), 8176MB, 8176MB available, 4685 GFLOPS peak)

4685 GFLOPS peak? Seems like they need to sort that thing out
I traded it for the wifey's 1070ti. It's kinda beast with games though

[zombie67]

Good to know. I was waffling back and forth between 5700 XT and VII. I almost got the 5700 XT because the power consumption was so much better, and the numbers looked reasonable. Glad I went with the VII based on your experience.

[VietOZ]

The VII really shines with undervolts. I ran all 4 of my VII at 1006mV with stock Clock 1801mhz and stock Mem Speed 1000mhz on almost 99% of the projects. The only project I had to raised the voltages a bit (1030mV) was Einstein.
Moo, Milky, Collatz, PrimeGrid, Seti were all fine with that low voltage.That puts the power consumption on par with the 5700XT 50th anni. I don't have a 5700XT to compare but it shouldn't be far off.
On projects that favor Nvidia, like PrimeGrid/Collatz/Moo/ , the VII held its ground.
PrimeGrid: RTX 2080 = 1.9m/day, Radeon 7 = 1.7m/day
Collatz: RTX 2080 = 13m/day, Radeon 7 = 11m/day
Moo: RTX 2080 = 1.95m/day, Radeon 7 = 1.7m/day

But then when it comes to projects favor AMD's card like Einstein or Milky. Those RTX can't even see the VII's behind lol
Einstein: Radeon 7 = 1.7m/day, RTX 2080: phoenicis rented AWS
Milky: Radeon 7 = 1.9m/day, RTX 2080: phoenicis rented tesla v100-sxm2-16gb
:D

I find that the driver 19.6.1 is the best driver for the Radeon VII. So no need to beta test the newer one yet lol

[VietOZ]

So I saw the latest driver just came out a couple days ago. Curious if anything changed, so I downloaded and clean installed it.


8/2/2019 11:59:23 PM | | OpenCL: AMD/ATI GPU 0: AMD Radeon RX 5700 XT 50th Anniversary (driver version 2906.10 (PAL,LC), device version OpenCL 2.0 AMD-APP (2906.10), 8176MB, 8176MB available, 4685 GFLOPS peak)


:(

hmmmmmm ... update my 5700XT 50th Anni to the latest driver. Running Seti and it looks weird
https://setiathome.berkeley.edu/results.php?hostid=8784349

waiting to see if anything got valid, because this thing is now chewing Seti 15 seconds per task ... WTF

https://images.xtremesystemsteam.org/images/2019/08/03/3947e50743a1a2000fb3fc4e98f9a143.png (https://images.xtremesystemsteam.org/image/uIPV)

it'll be a miracle if they all aren't error out

[DrPop]

I just looked, the 3900 CPU is sold out at the moment, so yeah...I might be a while on this. Wonder if they will get them in stock for Labor Day / "back to school" time sales?

For the GPU, do you think the 5700 XT is really that inferior for crunching due to its hardware, or is it likely a software issue they can sort out eventually? Because in games they look awfully close - like what, 3 to 4% difference between performance of the 5700 XT and the VII, right?
I currently just have 3 NV cards, and as much as I have historically liked AMD and would enjoy supporting them again, these 3 NV cards have been the quietest, least power consuming GPUs I've crunched on.

[VietOZ]

The 5700XT is hard to tell because it's a brand new architecture. AMD has their issues, but we also have to account in the Boinc's side. Are the current codes ready to take advantage of the new tech? We don't know yet. Plus, if the project admin is busy with other stuffs then it can be years before things can be sort out. I think it's just the software side of things right now, but then the 5700XT is using DDR6, so it's no different than Nvidia cards ... except for the architecture ... which is unproven at this point. I'm not techinical guru or anything, just use my common sense and hand on experiences. The VII used HBM2, that's the different when it comes to compute. Now, if Navi had used HBM2 instead of DDR6, it'd been a whole different story. But, again,I'm not an expert. There must be a reason for them not to use HBM2.
I'm not a fan boy on any side. Which ever gives me the best performance per dollar then I'm all for it. I loved the GTX 1070ti and the GTX 1660ti as well ... but other stuffs from Nvidia either over prices or under performance.

[John P. Myers]

HBM2 wasn't used because it's terribly expensive and would have prevented AMD from hitting their price target.

If the 5700XT is performing worse than it should, it's probably due to the new arch. The same has happened with NV in the past. Requires the projects to update their code. It should perform only about 12% worse than the VII at FP32 but capable of only 20% of the FP64 the VII can do.

[DrPop]

Is FP64 Milkyway? Any other projects use it? NV has terrible FP64 unless paying out the wazoo for a professional card... :(

[John P. Myers]

Is FP64 Milkyway? Any other projects use it? NV has terrible FP64 unless paying out the wazoo for a professional card... :(Asteroids, Primegrid GFN-21 and 22, Einstein and of course MW

[DrPop]

Thanks. Be interesting to see when this all gets back in stock. :confused:

[John P. Myers]

The new Epyc's came out today if anyone has one of those systems. 64c/128t per CPU. 8 channel memory. 128 PCIe 4.0 lanes and 4TB of RAM. Same socket.

And it's about $3k cheaper than Intel's Xeon Platinum 8180

[Egilman]

...... And it's about $3k cheaper than Intel's Xeon Platinum 8180

If someone can handle a $7k pricetag.... ($14k for a dual setup which Supermicro offers)

Be one hell of a cruncher though with more than enough lanes for quite a few GPU's also.....
120+ lanes? you can do 4 relatively high end GPU's on 40 lanes..... (with judicious setup), anyone ready for a 10 GPU setup at 8x natively? (no one builds such a critter unfortunately and it would be pricey)

This chip makes a Tyan Supercomputer look like an adding machine.....

[John P. Myers]

If someone can handle a $7k pricetag.... ($14k for a dual setup which Supermicro offers)

Be one hell of a cruncher though with more than enough lanes for quite a few GPU's also.....
120+ lanes? you can do 4 relatively high end GPU's on 40 lanes..... (with judicious setup), anyone ready for a 10 GPU setup at 8x natively? (no one builds such a critter unfortunately and it would be pricey)

This chip makes a Tyan Supercomputer look like an adding machine.....Yeah of course there are lower priced options. 160 gen 4 lanes with 2 chips and supports 8TB RAM like that. I would've posted links to benchmarks from Anandtech, Phoronix and Servethehome but it beats Intel so significantly that I don't want to be responsible for giving someone the itch to splurge on this setup :D

[purplecfh]

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/296307-epic-win-amds-64-core-7nm-epyc-cpus-leave-xeon-lying-in-the-dirt

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[zombie67]

The AMD using normal AVX2, just as fast as Intel using AVX-512. Impressive!

[Bryan]

I asked VietOZ to downclock his new 3900X to the same as his TR 2990WX and he ran some AVX Asteroids. The 3900X was 40% faster per thread than the 2990WX. Off hand I'd say they fixed the AVX/FMA problem :D

[DrPop]

The AMD using normal AVX2, just as fast as Intel using AVX-512. Impressive!

This is really making me want to do an upgrade for the first time in a long time. Just curious - does AMD only have AVX2 or does it have AVX-512 as well?

[Bryan]

No AVX 512 in the new ones ... or old ones. Personally I wouldn't let it be a buy decision :D There isn't much in BOINC that can use 512.

[DrPop]

... I wouldn't let it be a buy decision :D There isn't much in BOINC that can use 512.

OK, thanks. That makes more sense. I guess I'll just be keeping an eye on the stock and have to jump in at some point. Hopefully in the next month or two would be ideal.

[VietOZ]

isn't AVX-512 Intel exclusive?

[Bryan]

Only because AMD chose not to implement it yet :D

[zombie67]

The article linked earlier shows the AMD AVX2 performance is about equal to intel AVX-512. And this is on a test that usually favors intel.

[Al]

When y'all upgrade let me know and I'll take that obsolete hardware off your hands. :-bd

[Mumps]

And hide it in the closet with the rest of your gear that takes the summers off... :))

[Al]

And hide it in the closet with the rest of your gear that takes the summers off... :))Wow...snarky much? ;)

I have to save those pennies for the in law house we're building.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

[Mumps]

Wow...snarky much? ;)

I have to save those pennies for the in law house we're building.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk

Only when I don't get my beer. Or is that when I do get my beer? Geez, I'm getting so confused these days... :))

[John P. Myers]

32 core engineering sample Threadripper has been found. It scored 35% faster than 2990WX in a multithread benchmark. It's all that exists so far so not very reliable.

[John P. Myers]

Seems there will be 2 TR lines this time around. One with quad-channel RAM (TRX4) and one with Octa-channel (WRX8). Most likely the octa-channels won't work on the quad-channel motherboards so expect a new platform, though it is possible to pull it off. Intel has done it, but what a f-ing mess that turned out to be.

The quad-channels will be overclockable while the octa's will not.

[wolfman1360]

Love that we've been seeing so much competition. Hope AMD truly sticks it to Intel - it's high time those prices came down. And talk about confusion with Intel's newest processor names. Hard to tell which generation is what e.g. Coffee lake, comit lake, whiskey lake. Having to upgrade my Motherboard every generation with Intel is just one more reason.

[zombie67]

Is there an ETA for the threadripper?

[VietOZ]

I don't think there's an ETA yet. Everything now is just rumors and speculations. But since 7th of September had already passed, my guess is November 7th. Holidays shopping season.
October 7th if they're in need to clearing the old stuffs. Price cuts on older gens for Black Friday. My gut is telling me it's more like November. Because Asians doesn't like number 10. Bad luck.

[John P. Myers]

Is there an ETA for the threadripper?All I've heard for an ETA is Q4, but that was 3-4 months ago and haven't heard anything since. But I also haven't heard anything different.

[scole of TSBT]

Wow...snarky much? ;)

I have to save those pennies for the in law house we're building.

Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
You need to figure out a way to make it section 8, rent it to the in-laws and uncle Sam helps pay the bill

[zombie67]

You need to figure out a way to make it section 8, rent it to the in-laws and uncle Sam helps pay the bill

Uhhh. Uncle Sam's money is my money (and yours).

[Bryan]

Coming to a store near you in November.

HERE (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-3rd-Gen-TR-3950X-November)

[VietOZ]

My gut is telling me it's more like November. Because Asians doesn't like number 10. Bad luck.

told y'all. Them Asians are very superstitious =))

[zombie67]

Sounds like the 32core may not be available at first.

[John P. Myers]

Rumor is none of the new TRs will be compatible with current motherboards:/

[John P. Myers]

24 core TR 3960X and 32 core 3970X launching on Nov. 19th. Flagship 3990X launching in January but specs aren't known yet. AMD will release a teaser on Nov. 5th.

[VietOZ]

my birthday is in Dec. Just sayin' =))

[John P. Myers]

my birthday is in Dec. Just sayin' =))

Lol well, then you might also like to know that benches of AMD's mainstream Ryzen 3950X are surfacing and is spanking Intel's flagship 18 core 10980XE by up to 24%. Intel's HEDT CPUs also come out next month, but everything so far is showing them to be a complete waste of money.

For example, Intel is bragging about how they added more PCIe lanes (still 3.0 vs. AMD's 4.0), but if you already have an X299 board, these extra lanes won't work because the wiring physically doesn't exist, so Intel wants you to buy a new board again. And then there's no upgrade path after this gen either. Yet another new board. Also, if you already have a 9980XE, the 10980XE offers virtually no performance improvement anyway. Just some single-digit percentages that no one should pay $1000 for.

[VietOZ]

I'm expecting my BD's gift to be a TR 3970WX =))
Hope they still support X399 so I can upgrade my 1950X. But not gonna put my hopes too high

[Bryan]

I'm expecting my BD's gift to be a TR 3970WX =))
Hope they still support X399 so I can upgrade my 1950X. But not gonna put my hopes too high

And what are you gonna get for Christmas? :D

[VietOZ]

I was hoping for 3990XW, but looks like I'll have to wait til next Christmas lol

[John P. Myers]

I'm expecting my BD's gift to be a TR 3970WX =))
Hope they still support X399 so I can upgrade my 1950X. But not gonna put my hopes too highIt's really looking like you'll need a new board for TR3. All the extra cores required pinout changes for data paths and also power delivery.

[zombie67]

Zen 2 EPYC (server) CPUs with 32c/64t and 64c/128t are already available, and they have much bigger L3. Even dual CPU versions of them are available, so you could have a total of 128c/256t in a single machine now, if you wanted. So, why wait? Just higher clock speeds?

[John P. Myers]

Zen 2 EPYC (server) CPUs with 32c/64t and 64c/128t are already available, and they have much bigger L3. Even dual CPU versions of them are available, so you could have a total of 128c/256t in a single machine now, if you wanted. So, why wait? Just higher clock speeds?And price. Threadripper will be much cheaper than Epyc

[zombie67]

And price. Threadripper will be much cheaper than Epyc

Heh. Yeah, that and the Epyc have higher TDP too. ;) But no other technical differences or limitations of the Epyc?

[John P. Myers]

Epyc has more PCIe lanes and all of them are octa-channel RAM while only some of the threadrippers are. Also you're limited to only 1 Threadripper per motherboard.

[Bryan]

Also you're limited to only 1 Threadripper per motherboard.

Boy that's a showstopper, you can only have 128 threads ... damn =))

[John P. Myers]

Boy that's a showstopper, you can only have 128 threads ... damn =))

I know. It's terrible lol

[zombie67]

I think I saw a rumor somewhere that there would be a 64/128 Threadripper. Any idea when?

Also, I saw that Intel would be announcing new HETD CPUs later this month. Any rumors on what they will be announcing?

[Bryan]

There will be a 96t and 128t but I don't know when they will be available.

[VietOZ]

January

[zombie67]

January

But that's after Christmas! I can't use Christmas as an excuse now. Booo!

[John P. Myers]

I think I saw a rumor somewhere that there would be a 64/128 Threadripper. Any idea when?

Also, I saw that Intel would be announcing new HETD CPUs later this month. Any rumors on what they will be announcing?It's a long story but what Intel is about to launch is a joke. If you got a 9980XE, then you already have the new 10980XE. There are no improvements with the exception of 4 additional PCIe lanes, but if you don't buy a new motherboard, you can't use these extra lanes because the wiring doesn't exist. So far, I've seen 2 leaked benches where a mainstream Ryzen 3950X beats the 18 core 10980XE HEDT. I honestly can't tell that Intel is even trying anymore.

[zombie67]

Thanks for the info. It's the waiting that is so annoying.

[John P. Myers]

Also, for those wondering how long the new sTRX4 socket for the new Threadrippers will last, AMD said this:


3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors will be using a new socket called sTRX4. While the pin count will be the same as previous-gen Threadripper products at 4094, the mapping of those pins to voltage or data will be different this time ‘round. You cannot install a 3rd Gen Threadripper into an older motherboard, nor an older Threadripper into a new sTRX4 motherboard.

There are two essential reasons for this:

1. We wanted to drive maximum performance for the 3rd Gen AMD Ryzen Threadripper processors and sTRX4 helps us do exactly that. The 3rd Gen Threadripper will have 88 total PCIe Gen 4 lanes with 72 usable (CPU+motherboard). The net of total versus usable is because we’re also increasing the CPU<->chipset link from 4x Gen3 to 8x Gen4—quadruple the bandwidth vs. 2nd Gen TR. Extra data pins between the chipset and CPU make this possible, so you’ll be able to hang more I/O off the motherboard at full performance.

2. The socket change also sets us up nicely for future development and scalability of the Threadripper platform, both on a near- and long-term basis.

[VietOZ]

OUT OF STOCK

damn lol

[zombie67]

$2k at newegg. At least we know that now.

[John P. Myers]

Intel has been getting reamed by the tech press all day. It's glorious lol...this is what they deserve.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuaiqcjf0bs&feature=youtu.be&t=48

BTW, AMD confirmed there will be a 64c/128t Threadripper.

[purplecfh]

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-threadripper-3970x-review

AMD Threadripper 3970X and 3960X Review: High-End Domination [emoji23]



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[zombie67]

My intention is to build a 3970X cruncher. Maybe some mild OC, if any. I could use some advice.


Looks like there are about 10 mobos available now, roughly all the same cost, ~$450-500. Maybe more by the time the CPUs are actually available. Any obvious favorites or things to avoid?

For memory, I would want at least 2gb/thread. So 128gb. I see it is quad channel, and that means either 4 or 8 DIMMs. Either 4x32gb or 8x16gb, and 4 is faster than 8, right? Also, it supports up to DDR-4666, but that is crazy expensive and I am not finding anything larger than 8gb DIMMs on newegg. For 32gb, it looks like the fastest speed is 2666, at ~$600 (for 4x). For 16gb the speeds range 2666-3200, and cost starting at ~$500 (for 8x). With no intention to extreme OC, what is the sweet spot? Or maybe I am missing a better/faster alternative?

CPU cooler suggestion? No custom water cooling, please. Either HS/Fan, or all-in-one.

Finally, I want to try out PCIe 4 NVMe M.2. Normally, I would just go with Samsung but they don't have a PCIe 4 version yet? So who else is the favorite?

[VietOZ]

mobo: depending what you want to build the rig for. Dedicated cruncher doesn't need all the belt and whistle so I'd aim for lower tier ... which is still around $450 - $500. Higher end is around $700 i believe. My choice would be either Asus (Prime) or Gigabyte (Master). I avoid MSI because of bad experiences and i just don't like ASrock bios. I'm leaning toward Gigabyte Master because of the VRM heatsink.

memory: definitely go 4xwhatever ... don't go 8 dimms (daisy chain). so 4x32 for your case. 3600mhz is what you need, higher doesn't make sense with the way Infinity Fabric works. Infinity Fabric works best when it goes 1:1 with Dram speed and cap out at around 3800mhz. So no need to buy Dram higher than that. Hell, 3200mhz with tight timings works almost the same with 3600mhz.

CPU cooler: You probably need a high end AIO. NZXT Kraken X72 for example. I just bought a deepcool castle 360ex aio, I'll test it on my 2990WX to see how it goes and report back. But I heard it's neck to neck with the NZXT.

NVME: no comment :D I'd like to try it myself, but I probably will wait. Because there are more potential for more speed. Right now, it's not at peak speed yet.

[zombie67]

Thanks for the feedback!

Follow-up: What is "tight timings"? I know that memory has x-x-x-x ratings, but I am ignorant as to how they relate. I gather that smaller is better. But what is "tight"? And how tight is tight enough?

[VietOZ]

yep, smaller is better. Basically just think of it as overclocking ... but instead of cpu, you're overclocking Dram. There's a tool for that called Ryzen Dram Calculator or something

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/ryzen-dram-calculator/

the tool will take info from XMP and give you suggestions what you can do to improve.
There are a few steps to gather info from your Dram and plug them in the tool and it'll calculate and give you what you can do.
First you'll need to download Thaiphoon Burner http://www.softnology.biz/files.html Freeware version
Run it, find out if your Dram is 1 rank or 2 rank. Hynix or Samsung etc etc .. B-die or not.
Once you see those info then just plug them in the Ryzen Calculator and it'll give you the Safe timing or Fast timing ... whichever you choose. Take a picture of that screen and go to your Bios and insert those values.

Search youtube for Ryzen Calculator how to ... to have an idea.

[zombie67]

And that will tell me which DIMMs to buy? I'm confused.

[VietOZ]

no Z,
each set of memory comes with XMP profile right? The tool (thaiphoon) reads that profile and give you information about it. Like timing, voltages, vendor's name, type.
you take those info and plug them in the Ryzen calculator, then choose calculate FAST. It'll suggest a new set of timing (tighter).

For example: I have a set of 3200mhz Corsair LPX in my machine. Beside that I don't know anything else about it
Ran Thaiphoon: It will then spits out some info like they're 1 rank modules from Hynix , and they're not B-die. 16-18-18-48 at 1.35v
I then run the Ryzen Calculator: it will ask for those info
Plug those info in and choose calculate Fast.
Ryzen calculator gave me a new set of timing: says 14-17-19-26 at 1.39v and a bunch more of sub timings.
Copy that and go to the Bios and manually enter those values.

Sorry for the confusion! My english is aready bad enough, my explanation is even worse lolol

[zombie67]

Got it. Thanks!

[John P. Myers]

Got it. Thanks!Like VO said,avoid MSI. Many BIOS issues and patches seem to lag behind others. Gigabyte Aorus (any model tier) is the way to go this gen, going by teardowns and build quality analysis. The Asrock Taichi would be my 2nd choice. Definitely 4x DIMMs but not Corsair. You want Samsung B-die so go with G.Skill. Also like VO said, there's no reason to buy any kit over 3600Mhz. You can OC to hit 3733 if you just really had to [emoji14] Personally I'd look for a 3200Mhz kit @1.35v or less and OC that.

Aorus also has a 5GB/s m.2 but I'd wait if you can. Faster ones are coming.

Edit: G.Skill has announced kits up to 256GB but they're not released yet. Should be very soon.

[VietOZ]

@John what about those Crucial E die kits? Do you have any info about them? I heard a lot of good things about them but I haven't pull the trigger yet

[John P. Myers]

@John what about those Crucial E die kits? Do you have any info about them? I heard a lot of good things about them but I haven't pull the trigger yetThey can clock higher than Samsung but no one needs 6600Mhz+ RAM lol. I remember when they set that record and a few of us were studying their settings and it turned out to not even be useable. But they broke the record I guess. Samsung also can have better timings out of the box. But overall it's not bad, especially if the price is right. Too bad they don't make 32GB modules.

I remember there was some LPDDR3 Crucial Ballistix that I really liked. That stuff ran circles around everyone else for awhile until G.Skill started getting just as good or better.

I have Crucial in my Xeon Rig. If TR supports ECC LRDIMMs, maybe Z could get 8x16GB of those without a speed loss. Dunno what speeds they come in these days though.

[VietOZ]

If TR supports ECC LRDIMMs, maybe Z could get 8x16GB of those without a speed loss. Dunno what speeds they come in these days though.
I believe it's 2666mhz, but they'll cost arms and legs though :D

[zombie67]

Edit: G.Skill has announced kits up to 256GB but they're not released yet. Should be very soon.

Ah. I was wondering how to get 4x32gb, and at 3200 or 3600. I can't find anything at the moment. Looks like there are several items I need to wait for. Maybe by Christmas!

[VietOZ]

So I played around with my 3900X and Ryzen Dram Calculator last night.
Rig setup:
CPU: 3900X
Dram: Flare X 3200mhz, Samsung b-die Timing 14-14-14-34 1.35v
Mobo: Asus B450 Prime-Plus

Settings:
CPU: 4.1ghz static/manual 1.25v vcore. All AMD auto overclock turned off. PBO/XFR etc etc (i couldn't keep up with all the things they're calling)
Dram: load XMP for first run / Ryzen Dram Calculator settings for 2nd run.

Software: Cinebench R20. Just to get an idea, not an extensive test like reviewers do.

XMP profile run: score = 7131
Ryzen Dram Calculator run: score = 7349

pretty good improvement with just sub timings tightened down.

[John P. Myers]

Ah. I was wondering how to get 4x32gb, and at 3200 or 3600. I can't find anything at the moment. Looks like there are several items I need to wait for. Maybe by Christmas!

Hopefully before xmas. They were announced a few weeks ago already :p

Lemme see if i can find an official link.

Here: https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1570624595/G.SKILL-Releases-New-DDR4-32GB-Module-Specs-with-Memory-Kits-Up-to-256GB

This does pose the question though...32GB modules do take a timing hit. I wonder if 8x16 with better timings vs. 4x32 would negate the 2 DPC penalty. I'm thinking it would.

Do whatever you want Z :D

@VO: Nice improvement there. And the best part is it was free!

[zombie67]

$2k at newegg. At least we know that now.

Hah! 2 days later, and still "out of stock", the cost has gone up to $2.1k. And the 3960X has also increased from $1.4k to $1.5k.

All without ever shipping a single unit.

[zombie67]

So....are any of these available anywhere?

[VietOZ]

I saw 3950X and 3960X briefly available at my local Microcenter. Haven't seen 3970X anywhere yet

[VietOZ]

snatched a 3970X today at my local Microcenter. The only one they had. If I was going to drive up there, it's gonna take an hour. So wifey was like "let me go". She got there less than 40 minutes.She literally beat the next guy by like 20 seconds or so lol.

[John P. Myers]

snatched a 3970X today at my local Microcenter. The only one they had. If I was going to drive up there, it's gonna take an hour. So wifey was like "let me go". She got there less than 40 minutes.She literally beat the next guy by like 20 seconds or so lol.Ahhhhhh I'm so jealous lol

[zombie67]

This is really bad for AMD. They announce the HW to completely destroy Intel, and deliver vaporware. At least that is what it appears to the average Joe right now.

[John P. Myers]

This is really bad for AMD. They announce the HW to completely destroy Intel, and deliver vaporware. At least that is what it appears to the average Joe right now.They are selling out very quickly and supply is low. But at least they exist. On the other hand, Intel's 10000 series is true vaporware. Nothing exists at all and never did.

[VietOZ]

yep, twice i got emailed said Amazon just got 3950X, rushed to my pc to place an order. By the time I logged in, it was gone. That's my only hunt right now as I've already tamed the 3970x.
10980XE is no where to be found yet.

[zombie67]

Hah! 2 days later, and still "out of stock", the cost has gone up to $2.1k. And the 3960X has also increased from $1.4k to $1.5k.

All without ever shipping a single unit.

And now newegg has removed the 3970X completely. Not even listed as "out of stock" like before. Yikes.

[John P. Myers]

B&H Photo says they should have some by Jan. 6th

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1516708-REG/amd_ryzen_threadripper_3970x_3_7.html

[zombie67]

Don't get me wrong, I am *really* cheering on AMD with this. I want AMD to stomp Intel HARD. I want BOINC dominance!! ;) Also, the only way to force real advancement.

I want one, and I will pay for one. But this is starting to move from frustrating to damaging, IMO.

And I don't believe any retailers promise about availability for now.

[VietOZ]

my local microcenter has 2x 3960X available as of the time of this post. I'm still aiming for another 3970X though. I have all the gear ready, just not the damn cpu.

[zombie67]

Hah! 2 days later, and still "out of stock", the cost has gone up to $2.1k. And the 3960X has also increased from $1.4k to $1.5k.

All without ever shipping a single unit.

Newegg finally added the 3970X back, but still not available. And with a second price increase, now $2,225.

They *do* have the 3960X available now. A second price increase for this too, now $2,000. That's a $600 increase since announce. Yikes!

[John P. Myers]

Please don't overpay. MSRPs are $1400 and $2000 respectively

[zombie67]

Hopefully before xmas. They were announced a few weeks ago already :p

Lemme see if i can find an official link.

Here: https://www.gskill.com/community/1502239313/1570624595/G.SKILL-Releases-New-DDR4-32GB-Module-Specs-with-Memory-Kits-Up-to-256GB

This does pose the question though...32GB modules do take a timing hit. I wonder if 8x16 with better timings vs. 4x32 would negate the 2 DPC penalty. I'm thinking it would.

Do whatever you want Z :D

Okay, I finally have a 3970X on order and need to buy the rest of the parts now. It looks like the new G.Skill 32gb DIMMs are not yet available, right? So I guess I am going down the path of "better timing" 8x16gb. Could I please get a recommendation or two for which kit to buy?

[zombie67]

CPU cooler: You probably need a high end AIO. NZXT Kraken X72 for example.

That thing is 394mm long. What chassis do you recommend for that? This is a dedicated cruncher with m.2 storage, so I don't need any drive bays, and I want plenty of room for loooooong GPUs. I was going to with a second one of these (https://www.newegg.com/red-cooler-master-masterbox-mb511-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811119346), but it can't fit a cooler that long. I guess I could go with a shorter version (X62). But I am guessing more cooling is better, for these AMD Threadrippers. It's my first, and I am not clear on the cooling requirements.

Edit: After finding no cases that fit 394mm, I notice that the description of the X72 is "Kraken X72 360MM LIQUID COOLER". They are very specific saying the radiator is 394mm. I assume the "360" comes from 3x120mm fans cheek-to-cheek, and that is kind of an industry standard for describing an AOI with that configuration. In this particular case, the radiator is longer than the fans. Fair enough.

But when the chassis manufacturer (using the chassis above as an example) says it will fit "Three 120mm or two 140mm fans and up to a 360mm radiator with a maximum thickness of 50mm without fans", do they mean it will really fit a 394mm radiator with 3x120mm fans?

I am totally confused, and I really do NOT want to have to trial-and-error vial mail order.

[John P. Myers]

That thing is 394mm long. What chassis do you recommend for that? This is a dedicated cruncher with m.2 storage, so I don't need any drive bays, and I want plenty of room for loooooong GPUs. I was going to with a second one of these (https://www.newegg.com/red-cooler-master-masterbox-mb511-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811119346), but it can't fit a cooler that long. I guess I could go with a shorter version (X62). But I am guessing more cooling is better, for these AMD Threadrippers. It's my first, and I am not clear on the cooling requirements.

Edit: After finding no cases that fit 394mm, I notice that the description of the X72 is "Kraken X72 360MM LIQUID COOLER". They are very specific saying the radiator is 394mm. I assume the "360" comes from 3x120mm fans cheek-to-cheek, and that is kind of an industry standard for describing an AOI with that configuration. In this particular case, the radiator is longer than the fans. Fair enough.

But when the chassis manufacturer (using the chassis above as an example) says it will fit "Three 120mm or two 140mm fans and up to a 360mm radiator with a maximum thickness of 50mm without fans", do they mean it will really fit a 394mm radiator with 3x120mm fans?

I am totally confused, and I really do NOT want to have to trial-and-error vial mail order.That case will support the X72. All radiators are physically larger than the size given, especially for AIOs since they have an additional area to hold a little extra fluid. If radiators were exactly the same size as the fans that could be mounted to them, there'd be no room for the tubing to connect.

[zombie67]

That case will support the X72. All radiators are physically larger than the size given, especially for AIOs since they have an additional area to hold a little extra fluid. If radiators were exactly the same size as the fans that could be mounted to them, there'd be no room for the tubing to connect.

Got it. Thanks!

[VietOZ]

Sorry for the late reply, Z! For memory I went with this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WXML87M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
For case: I went with this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F2R5TFQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
My configuration for that case is using 5 intake fans ... 3 on the back side, 2 on the bottom. Radiator mount on top with fans configured to push the hot air out to the top. Works nicely so far and also kept my VRM and other stuff cool. I'm crunching WCG full load and cpu temp averaging around 73C at 4ghz.

[pinhodecarlos]

Hi all,

Merry Christmas to all in first place.

Need some guidance on a machine with lots of cores and at least with 128GB of memory. At NFS@Home we have a bunch of outstanding work to be done and the backlog keeps increasing. Usually we submit the NFS@Home datasets to clusters but only Greg, the admin, manages this so we at mersenneforum will soon create a crowdfunding link so we can support him on this. I would say that for a 32 thread machine a post processing task can take between one to two months of CPU. It’s is better to buy a new domestic AMD machine or Intel one? Is it better to go for a server CPU or just pay for Amazon cloud CPU time? The client uses is MPI based and if we connect nodes these must be linked with infiniband since during the post processing operation between nodes lots of data must be transferred.

[zombie67]

Sorry for the late reply, Z! For memory I went with this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WXML87M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
For case: I went with this : https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F2R5TFQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
My configuration for that case is using 5 intake fans ... 3 on the back side, 2 on the bottom. Radiator mount on top with fans configured to push the hot air out to the top. Works nicely so far and also kept my VRM and other stuff cool. I'm crunching WCG full load and cpu temp averaging around 73C at 4ghz.

Thanks for the info! I will hold off ordering the memory until the CPU actually ships, in hope of the 32gb version of the DIMMs becoming available. Does anyone have any insight to when that will be? The announce said Q4 2019, so I guess they have a few more days before they are officially late.

[John P. Myers]

Here's more recent info
https://wccftech.com/g-skill-announces-their-extremely-low-latency-with-ultra-high-capacities-cl14-18-18-38-memory-timings/

Some listings for sale: https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?N=100007611%2050008476%20601349177%20601275376

[zombie67]

Thanks JPM. The 32gb dimms for sale following the link are all 2666. Are you suggesting I use those, rather than 8x16 at 3200?

[John P. Myers]

Thanks JPM. The 32gb dimms for sale following the link are all 2666. Are you suggesting I use those, rather than 8x16 at 3200?I see the 3200 is sold out. I'd definitely hold out for that. They're supposed to be releasing 3600 too. Haven't seen a date yet though

You want it to be as close to 3733 as possible for best performance. 3200 is fine if you're willing to overclock.

[zombie67]

According to the update you provided, it says "Q1 2020". And that usually means "by the end of", so March 31, 2020. I can't wait that long.

I guess I will go with 4x16 for now, and hope no high-memory projects need crunching for a while (or run with HT off).

Thanks for all the help!

[John P. Myers]

Not to stress anyone out, but TR3 3990X 64c/128t Feb. 7th. $3990

3062

[zombie67]

Not to stress anyone out, but TR3 3990X 64c/128t Feb. 7th. $3990

Wow! I find it very surprising that there is no premium compared to 2x of the 3970X. Nice!

Now I will need fast 64gb DIMMs...

[John P. Myers]

Samsung just showed off a 6.5GB/s m.2 SSD today. 980 Pro. Not available yet

[VietOZ]

any good cooler / aio you think might be able to cool the 3990X? I really don't want to go to the custom loop route

[John P. Myers]

any good cooler / aio you think might be able to cool the 3990X? I really don't want to go to the custom loop routeEVGA CLC 360. In fact EVGAs CLC series coolers outperform pretty much every other cooler on any system, regardless of CPU. Also the Thermaltake Water 3.0 Riing is realy good. There might be others but don't know off the top of my head. Pretty certain about EVGA being the best though.

[VietOZ]

Ty John!

[zombie67]

These AIO coolers seem to all have round or square contact surfaces. With the X3970, that leaves ~.5-1 inch exposed CPU lid on each of the long ends of the rectangular CPU. Not sure where the chips are underneath the lid, so I am not quite sure if that is a problem or not. Under full load, temps are hovering around 67c. That is using the 3-fan Kraken X72, and not OC. Is that temp normal? I wonder if something that covers the whole CPU lid would be better, something like this?:

https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u14s-tr4-sp3-premium-grade-140mm-cpu-cooler-for-amd-tr4-sp3/p/13C-0005-00140?Item=9SIA73MA6Y4497

[Bryan]

That's what I'm using on my 2990WX machines. I ordered the optional 2nd fan for it also. Don't know how it would do with the new ones.

[VietOZ]

These AIO coolers seem to all have round or square contact surfaces. With the X3970, that leaves ~.5-1 inch exposed CPU lid on each of the long ends of the rectangular CPU. Not sure where the chips are underneath the lid, so I am not quite sure if that is a problem or not. Under full load, temps are hovering around 67c. That is using the 3-fan Kraken X72, and not OC. Is that temp normal? I wonder if something that covers the whole CPU lid would be better, something like this?:

https://www.newegg.com/noctua-nh-u14s-tr4-sp3-premium-grade-140mm-cpu-cooler-for-amd-tr4-sp3/p/13C-0005-00140?Item=9SIA73MA6Y4497

The noctua won't be able to hold the 3970X, at least with my case. Mine was in the mid 80s when crunching MCM on WCG. Mumak, the author of HWinfo64, also used the Noctua and his was also in the low 80s. So i'm pretty sure the Air cooler won't be able to keep up with these new TRs. Your temp is actually better than mine, Z. I'm using deepcool castle 360ex and my temp was at low 70s while crunching MCM. I haven't dare to crunch Asteroids yet :)

[Al]

The noctua won't be able to hold the 3970X, at least with my case. Mine was in the mid 80s when crunching MCM on WCG. Mumak, the author of HWinfo64, also used the Noctua and his was also in the low 80s. So i'm pretty sure the Air cooler won't be able to keep up with these new TRs. Your temp is actually better than mine, Z. I'm using deepcool castle 360ex and my temp was at low 70s while crunching MCM. I haven't dare to crunch Asteroids yet :)

Oz would know better than me, but I've had 2 of the NH-D15'a running on overclocked 3770's for years and they've kept pace with any water cooler I tried. The new TR's are probably a different animal altogether so don't put much weight behind anything I have to say. I will say, they are a HUGE air cooler and require a case with lots of room.

[VietOZ]

Don't get me wrong! I'm a fan of Noctua as well. The Noctua NH-U14S TR4-SP3 cooling both of my 2990WX and have no problem at all, even with a slight OC. The NH-D15 is also keeping my 3900X@4ghz under control, no problem. But these new TRs, they're in another league :)

[John P. Myers]

Considering the 3990X can draw 280W when pushed hard at stock, i'm not sure there's any air cooler in existence that can handle that. In fact, Intel and AMD both strongly recommend water for anything 250W and above. That is in their own documentation. Unfortunately the 3980X and 3990X seem to still be under NDA so we can't see what coolers the reviewers used. Please don't even attempt a Noctua contraption on these Threadrippers lol

The Enermax Liqtech TR4 II has a full coverage cold plate, but all Enermax coolers have been failing at ridiculously high rates over the past year. I'd avoid them until they get their shit together.

[Dave gpu]

Water Cooling is DEAD. Meet the THERMOSIPHON!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M13dWRL9qkc

[John P. Myers]

Yeah there's that. But the retail version is about 1/3 the size and can't handle the TDP of a 3990X, or even a 3970X with a mild OC. I'll be getting a couple of those for regular desktop CPUs though :D

[John P. Myers]

In case you're wondering if you're missing anything from Intel, this should put your mind at ease...
3064

[John P. Myers]

3970X at a slight discount for the next few hours. $50 under MSRP with promo code EMCDGGH32 https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16819113618

[John P. Myers]

Water Cooling is DEAD. Meet the THERMOSIPHON!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M13dWRL9qkc

Wait for their 3rd release. It will use copper instead of aluminum.

[John P. Myers]

Microcenter reducing AMD prices :D
3065

[VietOZ]

SaM (stoneageman) got his a few days ago. Not sure how he got it that early though. Maybe they released it early in UK?
Looking good so far. I can't get mine till Friday. Looks like it's gonna produce about 124k boinc points/day (868k WCG points). Temps and power draws also looking good.
~450 watts running MCM and cpu temps were around 66C. He was using the Cooler Master ML360 RGB TR4 AIO with an ambient of 25C. But the CPU clock only ran at 3ghz (he had it on auto)
From the screenshots, looks like the 3990X finish a MCM WU in 3.5 hours with all 128 threads running. My 3970X ran 2.5 hours/wu at 4ghz and draws almost the same wattages. (420)

Z, you're gonna get one?

[zombie67]

The 3990X? Naw. I think I am good with CPU power for now. Also, the 3990X has that NUMA problem with windows.

[zombie67]

Newegg finally has some limited stock of the 3990X, $3,989.99.

[zombie67]

The 3990X? Naw. I think I am good with CPU power for now. Also, the 3990X has that NUMA problem with windows.

Ah, I forgot the other reason: max memory. IMO, 2gb per thread is a minimum for BOINC, so 256gb. The 3990X supports only eight unbuffered DIMMs. No registered or LR DIMMs. And the largest available currently are (slow) 32gb. That means 128gb of fast, or 256gb slow. And that is with 2 DIMMs per channel, which is not the best. I think the fast 32gb versions are due by Q2? We'll see. 4x64gb fast DIMMs would be best. Any ETA on those?

[VietOZ]

MicroCenter has a GSkill Neo kit 4x32GB 3200mhz for $660, but I didn't get it. I'll go with my Neo 3600mhz 64GB kit for now, if it doesn't work then i'll buy the other kit.

[John P. Myers]

Newegg has some 32GB modules now too
https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=g.skill+32gb&pageTitle=g.skill+32gb&N=100007611+601275376

[VietOZ]

finally got it up and running Universe https://universeathome.pl/universe/show_host_detail.php?hostid=545169
Still have problem with bios, asus rog strix trx40-e gaming, DRAM can only run at 2133mhz. My kit is rated 3600mhz
For some stupid reason, Asus decided to pumped out a bios and lock DRAM speed at stock. They don't say it in the download page ... but if dig in more to CPU compatible list then there's a little note saying "Memory runs at stock settings" wtf?

[zombie67]

Well THAT's annoying.

[John P. Myers]

That is why i quit buying Asus after my Xeon v4 board. They just....i dunno. But i had enough.

[VietOZ]

I may have to put them on my blacklist as well. I'm already done with MSI ... what's up with these manufactures lies and dirty tricks sheit? I feel like they intentionally crippled the earlier boards so we'll have to go out and buy the new Zenith .. f*ck'em.

[zombie67]

I may have to put them on my blacklist as well. I'm already done with MSI ... what's up with these manufactures lies and dirty tricks sheit? I feel like they intentionally crippled the earlier boards so we'll have to go out and buy the new Zenith .. f*ck'em.

Is that a different board you used for your 3970X build? If so, why did you change?

[VietOZ]

my 3970X build used Asus Prime ... I got this board about the same time. My initial thoughts was to build 2x 3970X, but then AMD announced the 3990X so I waited. I bought all the gears(except cpu) before Christmas so whatever was available at good price then I grabbed it. I still haven't update bios on the Prime yet, it still runs agesa 1.0.0.2. Now i'm actually scare to update it. The Strix was fine with the same bios as the Prime, memory was running at 3600mhz. But it couldn't boot into either windows or linux (with mce=off). So I decided to update the bios and the rest is history.

[zombie67]

1) Regarding windows and 128 threads:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15483/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/3

Looks like SMT/HT + 128 threads + AVX2 + windows is a problem. See the NAMD graph and comments. And the the summary:


What’s The Verdict?
From our multithreaded test data, there can only be two conclusions. One is to disable SMT, as it seems to get performance uplifts in most benchmarks, given that most benchmarks don’t understand what processor groups are. However, if you absolutely have to have SMT enabled, then don’t use normal Windows 10 Pro: use Pro for Workstations (or Enterprise) instead. At the end of the day, this is the catch in using hardware that's skirting the line of being enterprise-grade: it also skirts the line with triggering enterprise software licensing. Thankfully, workstation software that is outright licensed per core is still almost non-existent, unlike the server realm.

Ultimately this puts us in a bit of a quandary for our CPU-to-CPU comparisons on the following pages. Normally we run our CPUs on W10 Pro with SMT enabled, but it’s clear from these benchmarks that in every multithreaded scenario, we won’t get the best result. We may have to look at how we test processors >16 cores in the future, and run them on Windows 10 Enterprise. Over the following pages, we’ll include W10 Pro and W10 Enterprise data for completeness.

Does Linux have this problem?

2) I beginning to think that Windows is too dumb to understand the chiplet architecture used in Zen2. For example, there are 4 chiplets of 8 cores each on a 3970X. Each chiplet contains its own cache. Scenario: (SMT/HT off) running 4 MT tasks, each task using 8 cores, it would be best if each task was contained in a single chiplet. That way cache calls would be fastest. Otherwise the task has to go out to the bus to retrieve the data elsewhere. But the poor task times I am seeing are making me think windows is not doing the smart thing.

Is there a way to make windows keep MT tasks tied to a single chiplet?

Is linux any better at this?

3) https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/60e2u8/the_inferiority_of_windows_cpu_scheduler_vs/

I am going to have to try linux to see the difference. No VM this time, a separate boot device.

[John P. Myers]

Seems if you limit MT tasks to 16 threads (8 with SMT off) it should keep them on each of the CCXs. Another possibility of poor times is using too many threads at once. Some threads finish first and sit idle waiting on other threads.

[John P. Myers]

@Z: Supposedly Windows 10 Pro fixed the issue. Make sure you get build 18362.592 or later and it *should* be fine. Pro for Workstations/Enterprise isn't required.

[zombie67]

@Z: Supposedly Windows 10 Pro fixed the issue. Make sure you get build 18362.592 or later and it *should* be fine. Pro for Workstations/Enterprise isn't required.

Just so I am clear, are you talking about the issue that anandtech talked about, or the problem that I think is happening with keeping MT tasks with 16 threads (8 with SMT off) or less tied to a CCX?

FWIW, I am running the latest general release of win10 pro (not any of the fast(er) rings). In this case, it is 18363.

[John P. Myers]

It's supposed to fix the issue Anandtech was talking about

[zombie67]

Got it. Thanks!

[zombie67]

10980XE is no where to be found yet.

So what's the latest on Cascade Lake-X availability? I have been thinking of getting a second AVX-512 machine. They really do outperform by quite a bit on projects where it is supported, and being first counts (PG). All I can find are 9th generation Skylake-X. And when I search on Cascade Lake-X availability, all the articles are back from November.

[zombie67]

So what's the latest on Cascade Lake-X availability? I have been thinking of getting a second AVX-512 machine. They really do outperform by quite a bit on projects where it is supported, and being first counts (PG). All I can find are 9th generation Skylake-X. And when I search on Cascade Lake-X availability, all the articles are back from November.

I guess Intel isn't talking?

[John P. Myers]

It was launched months ago but Intel doesn't want to sell any because they're having to sell them at half the price of the 9980XE, which is all the 10980XE is anyway. Just renamed to sound new.

[zombie67]

It was launched months ago but Intel doesn't want to sell any because they're having to sell them at half the price of the 9980XE, which is all the 10980XE is anyway. Just renamed to sound new.

Heh. When you're losing an argument, I guess it's best to just shut up.

The good news is that the new threadripper, or at least the 3970X that I have, out-performs my i9-9820X with AVX-512. And this is on LLR tasks at PG, which take advantage of AVX-512. And I am not talking about just total production. I am talking about returning tasks faster, and more of them at a time. For example, running PPS-Mega (LLR):

i9-9820X (10 core, HT off, OC to 4ghz (but AVX-512 may negate the OC)): 3-thread 5-thread and 10-thread per task take the roughly same time per task. Less threads per task, and the times go up in a linear fashion. So I run 3 3-threaded tasks at a time. Each tasks takes about 19 minutes. I experimented with both windows and linux. No difference in run times.

3970X (32 core, HT off, no OC): Running 4 threads per task, each task takes about 14 minutes. Going smaller per task and times increase linearly. Going larger per task and there is no reduction in time. But here is the important part: This was with linux. With Windows, tasks ran 2-3 times longer with the same settings. Something is clearly wrong with the way windows deals with these threadrippers, and I assume it has to do with not keeping MT tasks associated to the individual chiplets.

Summary: That is 3 tasks at 18 minutes each vs 8 tasks at 14 minutes each. Even if you equalize for the number of cores, the threadripper wins. Particularly if returning your copy of the task first is important.

[rhihannisu]

The threadrippers are monsters. Even my 2920 is a beast. so glad AMD remembered how to make good processors again.

[zombie67]

1) Regarding windows and 128 threads:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15483/amd-threadripper-3990x-review/3

Looks like SMT/HT + 128 threads + AVX2 + windows is a problem. See the NAMD graph and comments. And the the summary:



Does Linux have this problem?

2) I beginning to think that Windows is too dumb to understand the chiplet architecture used in Zen2. For example, there are 4 chiplets of 8 cores each on a 3970X. Each chiplet contains its own cache. Scenario: (SMT/HT off) running 4 MT tasks, each task using 8 cores, it would be best if each task was contained in a single chiplet. That way cache calls would be fastest. Otherwise the task has to go out to the bus to retrieve the data elsewhere. But the poor task times I am seeing are making me think windows is not doing the smart thing.

Is there a way to make windows keep MT tasks tied to a single chiplet?

Is linux any better at this?

3) https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxmasterrace/comments/60e2u8/the_inferiority_of_windows_cpu_scheduler_vs/

I am going to have to try linux to see the difference. No VM this time, a separate boot device.

Turns out that linux is actually much better at affinity WRT chiplets, keeping the MT tasks within each chiplet.

http://www.primegrid.com/forum_thread.php?id=9063&nowrap=true#139003