Moo!: DNETC replacement

[zombie67]

http://moowrap.net/

So far, it looks like only the ATI app is working properly.

[Dandasarge]

http://moowrap.net/

So far, it looks like only the ATI app is working properly.

I'm not sure its working well for duel cards? It looks like those are the people with the low points.

[zombie67]

I'm not sure its working well for duel cards? It looks like those are the people with the low points.

Working fine for me with dual 5870s.

[Dandasarge]

Working fine for me with dual 5870s.

maybe its just if your name is Maxwell :)

[Crazybob]

How's the pay and will it work for the older 4800 series cards?

[Mike029]

I'm in and it's crunching like Dnetc. Using both my 5870's. Any idea on credits per yet?

[trigggl]

Windows only. :-&

[joker]

Windows only.

Nobody uses LINUX anyway. >:) ;)

[zombie67]

I take it back. The tasks running on my dual 5870 are taking 5x the run time of the tasks running on my single 5870. So the app, when running in multi-gpu mode, seems to have problems. I will move that machine back to MW for now.

[Mike029]

Times are all over the place. Some WU's finished in 300sec for over 2k others 400 to 600 for just under 400 pts. I'm going to run it overnight at see what it puts out.

[Bryan]

I take it back. The tasks running on my dual 5870 are taking 5x the run time of the tasks running on my single 5870. So the app, when running in multi-gpu mode, seems to have problems. I will move that machine back to MW for now.

That is the same thing I noticed when looking at the top computers last night. Those running single cards have much faster completion times that those with multiple cards. The exception was the top dog who was running 3 5870s.

[Shadow]

The work units I've done so far are staying in the 8-9 minute range for completion, and hanging around 400 credits each. Then there's and oddball here and there that gives out 2-4k credits seemingly at random. 2 x 6970's, Win7x64.

[zombie67]

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=14

We'll see what they come back with.

[Crazybob's Son]

I am running a single 5850. The wu's for me are running all around 20-23 mins and getting 3-400 credit/wu. Also going to let it run overnight but I'll prolly switch back to collatz if this doesn't pay decently.

[bmwr606]

why not just run primegrid?

i am running primegrid + GPUgrid with my gtx260-216 and getting avg work done of about 120,000 from primegrid and another 25,000 from GPUgrid for a combined 155,000 avg work done.

and i am running 2 primaboinca wu at the same time on my intel E6750 dual core for another 8,000 avg work.

net avg work about 163,000 for an E6750 + GTX260-216 is pretty good i think.

wish i had a 2600K OC to the moon plus a couple of GTX580s (hint hint)

[trigggl]

why not just run primegrid?
It's called Mega Milestones.

[Crazybob's Son]

I am running a single 5850. The wu's for me are running all around 20-23 mins and getting 3-400 credit/wu. Also going to let it run overnight but I'll prolly switch back to collatz if this doesn't pay decently.

I let this run overnight and got 213,000 credit overnight. It looks like I'm getting roughly 3700 credit for 11 mins. Which equals out to roughly 500k credit/day. If anyone is hesitant switch over as this looks to be pretty good at the moment.

They changed the cache from 5 wu's to 25 already so that is good.

Not sure how this works with the 4800 series cards. If anyone has stats on those cards please post as I know my father has access to 3 of them to switch over.

- Jason

[zombie67]

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=14

We'll see what they come back with.

No response from the admin yet. However, they did post the requirements here:

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=16

For ATI:

BOINC Client v6.10.17 (Check! I have 6.10.58)
Driver v10.4 or later (Check! I have 10.11)
Minimum device memory 250M (Check! I have 1gb)
ATI Runtime (not older AMD) (I have ??)

Where does one download Runtime? Is it not part of the Catalyst Software Suite? How do I tell what version I have?

[Beerdrinker]

Well, I took the plunge and attached as well. If it don´t play well I can always take it to 100.000 and then return to Collatz...;)

[Shadow]

I'm now getting right around 3700 credits per wu pretty steady on one box. The other one is still all over the place. I'm not seeing those credits showing up on BoincStats though. Not sure what's up with that. I'm just about to pass Steve* in overall ranking too. \:D/ :-$ :-"

So it's taken me roughly 36 hours to rack up over 1 mil credits, but now I need to figure out how to get them to count as BOINC credits.

Woohoo! Just passed Steve*!! Not very often you get to say that. Now he'll probably put a dozen comps on it.

[Crazybob's Son]

I'm now getting right around 3700 credits per wu pretty steady on one box. The other one is still all over the place. I'm not seeing those credits showing up on BoincStats though. Not sure what's up with that. I'm just about to pass Steve* in overall ranking too. \:D/ :-$ :-"

So it's taken me roughly 36 hours to rack up over 1 mil credits, but now I need to figure out how to get them to count as BOINC credits.

This always happens with new projects. It takes a bit of time to get added to boincstats.

[Shadow]

No response from the admin yet. However, they did post the requirements here:

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=16

For ATI:

BOINC Client v6.10.17 (Check! I have 6.10.58)
Driver v10.4 or later (Check! I have 10.11)
Minimum device memory 250M (Check! I have 1gb)
ATI Runtime (not older AMD) (I have ??)

Where does one download Runtime? Is it not part of the Catalyst Software Suite? How do I tell what version I have?

Runtime should be included with the Catalyst. I know there's an option in the start menu>Catalyst Control Center>restart runtime. No idea how to check what version though.

[Shadow]

This always happens with new projects. It takes a bit of time to get added to boincstats.

Ah, good to know. My RAC is taking a huge hit until this starts to show up. I see it showing up on Free-DC now.

[zombie67]

Ah, good to know. My RAC is taking a huge hit until this starts to show up. I see it showing up on Free-DC now.

Use Free-DC stats instead. It shows new projects much more quickly.

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=userbycpid&cpid=789d0a7724361a4a386fc70c03bf3cf2

[Fire$torm]

No response from the admin yet. However, they did post the requirements here:

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=16

For ATI:

BOINC Client v6.10.17 (Check! I have 6.10.58)
Driver v10.4 or later (Check! I have 10.11)
Minimum device memory 250M (Check! I have 1gb)
ATI Runtime (not older AMD) (I have ??)

Where does one download Runtime? Is it not part of the Catalyst Software Suite? How do I tell what version I have?

I think they are referring to using ATI's Catalyst Control Center not the rewritten AMD version.

[Shadow]

Check your machines, around noon EST, the work units on both of my boxes crapped out. 45 minutes and still running, no GPU activity. Did a reboot and aborted those workunits, fresh ones are doing the same thing.

[Beerdrinker]

HOLY CRAP!!!

If this in ANY way keep up, I just found a new pet project!!!

3 WU finished in 52 - 45 and 44 Min.....19.985 Credits!! [-O<[-O< That´s rigth....almost 20,000 credits for roughly 2:25 hours of work....

[Crazybob]

I threw one of the 4800 series on it and it was being odd. First WU jumped to 8.02% complete after 20 seconds and the sat with no update for another 5 minutes. It DL'd more work and immediately jumped to a new WU and went to 7% before sitting there. I told the machine to allow more MW work and will have to see if it actually completes any of these when I get home.

[zombie67]

I threw one of the 4800 series on it and it was being odd. First WU jumped to 8.02% complete after 20 seconds and the sat with no update for another 5 minutes. It DL'd more work and immediately jumped to a new WU and went to 7% before sitting there. I told the machine to allow more MW work and will have to see if it actually completes any of these when I get home.

The app is not BOINC native, and runs inside a wrapper. That usually means that the % complete is not a reliable measure, and can display weird behavior.

[Crazybob]

Good to know. Has anyone made any comparison yet with PG? If the pay is better, I will throw the duals on it.

[Crazybob's Son]

Darn, we were 1st for a little while here, but looks like we got passed by Sic - stats (http://moowrap.net/top_teams.php?sort_by=total_credit)

[Dandasarge]

Darn, we were 1st for a little while here, but looks like we got passed by Sic - stats (http://moowrap.net/top_teams.php?sort_by=total_credit)

I think this is a good project, Thanks to Zomb and Max for getting us on this ASAP we seem to do good at getting in the door first And out into the team. But I feel that any more on this project should be in the "Project Strategy" form.

[Crazybob]

As soon as you create a profile over there, you become UOTD!

[Bryan]

If anyone has a single 5850 or 5870 rig you might try the project. Steve has a pair of 5850s and calculating his run rate from credits it appears that computer will produce 1M per day. Not bad for 2 x 5850.

Steve can not get dual 5870s to run and neither can I. I also can not get 5970s work as they should. BUT I think single cards are doing okay and paying big credits.

[Maxwell]

I tried the CUDA app on my 570 @850/1700:

WU1: Completed and validated 2,494.26 2,445.11 8,659.79 Distributed.net Client v1.00 (cuda31)
WU2: Completed and validated 2,694.34 2,667.38 725.93 Distributed.net Client v1.00 (cuda31)

Less time, and 12x the credits. This is weird...

[zombie67]

I don't think you can credit comparisons to other projects, until they get this straightened out.

Even for single GPUs, errors are common.

Payment for tasks seem to run in one of 3 categories: ~400, ~4000, ~5-10000. That last group just started showing up today.

[Fire$torm]

FYI: I have 3x 4850s running with no issues that I can see.

Task -- Work unit - Computer --------- Status --------- Run time --- CPU time --- Credit
16566 --- 14111 --- 297 --- Completed and validated --- 1,141.51 --- 506.08 --- 8,884.41

Edit: LOL. Right after I posted this the temps on two cards dropped. Now only one card has 97% utilization the other two are at 0%

[zombie67]

FYI: I have 3x 4850s running with no issues that I can see.

Task -- Work unit - Computer --------- Status --------- Run time --- CPU time --- Credit
16566 --- 14111 --- 297 --- Completed and validated --- 1,141.51 --- 506.08 --- 8,884.41

Edit: LOL. Right after I posted this the temps on two cards dropped. Now only one card has 97% utilization the other two are at 0%

Sure...that one task. Look at the full list:

http://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=297&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=

Only tasks two paid normally. The rest paid only 300-700. And run times are all over the place.

[joker]

First WU done in 58 minutes and reported just fine. Now we will see if it validates. :-ssX_X[-O<Keeping fingers crossed.

[Fire$torm]

Sure...that one task. Look at the full list:

http://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=297&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=

Only tasks two paid normally. The rest paid only 300-700. And run times are all over the place.

OK, then the utilization issue I edited in seems to help explain the run times. It might also be a factor in how credits are awarded.

Edit: My original post, I was talking about hardware, as in the cards not crashing. The task I listed was just to show that my system was working, nothing more.

[joker]

Finished 4 WU's and have gotten 38,605 credits so far. Running a single 4870 by itself in a system.

[zombie67]

I don't think you can credit comparisons to other projects, until they get this straightened out.

Even for single GPUs, errors are common.

Payment for tasks seem to run in one of 3 categories: ~400, ~4000, ~5-10000. That last group just started showing up today.

Found the reason why awarded credits started recently changing wildly:

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=18

[Maxwell]

Found the reason why awarded credits started recently changing wildly:

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=18
I hope that post means he actually fixed the credit system, and didn't just tweak a DA setting that will grant less and less credit over time...

[Fire$torm]

Found the reason why awarded credits started recently changing wildly:

http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=18

Why can't they just keep it simple? So basically the people crunching now are just guinea pigs....

[Maxwell]

Why can't they just keep it simple? So basically the people crunching now are just guinea pigs....
Two words: D. fracking A.

[DrPop]

What is this D...A thing? I think I will let ya'll tell me when the water's nice before I jump in this time. I lost at least 8 days on that last AQUA experiment, so I'm a little gun shy now...

[Shadow]

What is this D...A thing? I think I will let ya'll tell me when the water's nice before I jump in this time. I lost at least 8 days on that last AQUA experiment, so I'm a little gun shy now...

DA is some big wig within the BOINC project, aka credit Nazi, Scrooge, etc. etc...
He dictates how much credit projects can dish out to "try" to keep them fairly balanced between users and try to prevent everyone flocking to the ones with the highest credits.

Moo is alpha testing according to the news page on their forum.
Here's my results so far:
http://moowrap.net/results.php?userid=1394&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=

and:
http://moowrap.net/top_users.php

[Bryan]

Dr. Anderson of Seti fame. He runs such a stellar project ... it was the 1st project and I think they are still running the original code and servers. :)

[Maxwell]

Dr. Anderson of Seti fame. He runs such a stellar project ... it was the 1st project and I think they are still running the original code and servers. :)
That's clearly wrong, Bryan. ;)

They've updated the code substantially over time. Please note, though, that "updated" does not mean "better". I got better credit on SETI two years ago when I started than I do now...

[DrBob]

Hmmm...

Well this project IS definitely BETA. :))
My 4870 (10.10) was cranking right along without error until this afternoon, now all WUs appear to complete normally but end with an error code -161.
Never have gotten my 460 GTX (266.58 Driver) to complete a WU, GPU processing never starts, WU keeps restarting with progress of 0%.
One of my old 9800 GT cards (266.58 Driver) appears to be working but who knows how long that will take to complete a WU and if it validates when completed.

Was hoping to get at least my 100K stone before moving on but as much as this project has been screwed up in the past 24hrs it doesn't look like I'll get there.

[zombie67]

David Pope Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_P._Anderson)

He is the creator of the original SETI@home app. He is the guy who owns BOINC development. We U.S. tax payers are paying for him to do it. His belief in cross-project parity is delusional. Impossible. Proven to be so (http://www.boinc-wiki.info/User:Nicolas/Credit_scenarios). Yet he keeps spitting in the wind...splattering us all.

[Maxwell]

Never have gotten my 460 GTX (266.58 Driver) to complete a WU, GPU processing never starts, WU keeps restarting with progress of 0%.
One of my old 9800 GT cards (266.58 Driver) appears to be working but who knows how long that will take to complete a WU and if it validates when completed.
Huh. I didn't see that earlier today when I was crunching it with my 570, using the same driver. It did take forever to get them running, and I'm not convinced the CUDA wrapper has been coded well yet...

[Fire$torm]

David Pope Anderson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_P._Anderson)

He is the creator of the original SETI@home app. He is the guy who owns BOINC development. We U.S. tax payers are paying for him to do it. His belief in cross-project parity is delusional. Impossible. Proven to be so (http://www.boinc-wiki.info/User:Nicolas/Credit_scenarios). Yet he keeps spitting in the wind...splattering us all.

Well, that just goes to prove that good programmers are not necessarily realistic people.........

[Slicker]

I think they are referring to using ATI's Catalyst Control Center not the rewritten AMD version.

Or, maybe they are talking about the really old v8.12 drivers which used "amdxxxxx".dlls instead of "atixxxxxx.dlls"

[Mike029]

Should I run this on my box with one 5870 or run MW in the same box with 2 5870's? It's in the family box so won't run 24/7 but can pick up a few extra stones.

[joker]

Just from what I have been reading it sounds like people are having problems with dual card setups. I am running a single card in one rig and have not had 1 problem so far.

[Fire$torm]

Or, maybe they are talking about the really old v8.12 drivers which used "amdxxxxx".dlls instead of "atixxxxxx.dlls"

Thanks. I never ran into that so it didn't register.

[DrBob]

Huh. I didn't see that earlier today when I was crunching it with my 570, using the same driver. It did take forever to get them running, and I'm not convinced the CUDA wrapper has been coded well yet...Yeah, can't figure it out. I have seen a couple 460s on the project working with older drivers but not ver 266.58 which I'm running here. The app apparently never initializes the card as I can't find the "Automatic processor type detection" messge in any of the stderr_out on that machine.

<core_client_version>6.11.6</core_client_version>
<![CDATA[
<message>
aborted by user
</message>
<stderr_txt>
23:31:14 (4704): wrapper: starting
23:31:24 (4704): wrapper: running dnetc518-win32-x86-cuda31.exe (-ini dnetc.ini -runoffline -multiok=1 -e <censored> )

dnetc v2.9109-518-CTR-10092921 for CUDA 3.1 on Win32 (WindowsNT 5.1).
Using email address (distributed.net ID) '<censored> '

[May 05 04:35:20 UTC] nvcuda.dll Version: 6.14.12.6658
23:36:35 (4704): no checkpoint in 301 seconds, restarting
23:36:49 (4704): task process has not exited within 10 seconds, forcing it to die
23:36:55 (4704): wrapper: running dnetc518-win32-x86-cuda31.exe (-ini dnetc.ini -runoffline -multiok=1 -e <censored> )

dnetc v2.9109-518-CTR-10092921 for CUDA 3.1 on Win32 (WindowsNT 5.1).
Using email address (distributed.net ID) '<censored> '

[May 05 04:40:36 UTC] nvcuda.dll Version: 6.14.12.6658
23:42:01 (4704): no checkpoint in 301 seconds, restarting
23:42:11 (4704): task process has not exited within 10 seconds, forcing it to die
23:42:16 (4704): wrapper: running dnetc518-win32-x86-cuda31.exe (-ini dnetc.ini -runoffline -multiok=1 -e <censored> )
23:44:37 (4704): task process has not exited within 10 seconds, forcing it to die...
Oh well, my old 9800GTs & 4870 are getting some credit so I'm making some headway.
I don't run the 460GTX 24/7 anyway, just use it once and a while for a little push, it's on my main desktop and I'd like it to last for more than a couple years. I've RMA'd 3 GPUs in the past couple months for dead fans...

IMHO
PNY= Great customer service & fast turn around on RMA.
ASUS= Worst customer service I've experienced in years, almost not worth the hassle of getting a RMA for a card.

[Slicker]

Looks like they increased the credit. It started with about 8-9K per WU, dropped to about 3K as DA's credit system kicked in, and now it is up around 9-10K which may make it the best paying ATI GPU app for those who get it to run w/o errors.

[Shadow]

I managed to get 30k out of a dozen or so of them before the bug kicked in again and my GPU's went idle. Now I'm waiting for the daily quota to reset because I had so many of them error out. :mad:

[dan]

This is silliness. I put my two 5870s on this in the AM today. So far I've finished 9 work units for 553K.

Dan

[Crazybob's Son]

This is silliness. I put my two 5870s on this in the AM today. So far I've finished 9 work units for 553K.

Dan

It looks like they fixed the dual-gpu issues?

[zombie67]

It looks like they fixed the dual-gpu issues?

Nope. My dual 5870 still takes 1-2 hours to run a task. Credits are ranging from 400 to 58,000 each. So I think I will continue to let that project under-utalize my GPUs for now. ;)

http://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=118&offset=0&show_names=0&state=3&appid=

[dan]

All of my tasks are taking around 1 to 1.5 hours. The first nine averaged about ~8 credits per second per GPU. The latest one averaged ~1 credit per second, per GPU, which is half the credits I get off Milkyway. Milkyway gives me ~2 credits per second, per GPU. I'll let it run a little while longer and see what the real credits are, but if it's like the last wu, then it's back to Milkyway.

Dan

[-GER-]

Amd 570 slowed down, did one in a little over 97 mins for 18k credits. Oc'd to 880 done in 47 mins for 8500 credits. Maybe just random chance but hard not notice that credits seem to be tied to card per wu rather than wu's done(twice as fast card got half the credits).

Considering a slowed down 570 was drawing 165watts-100w(system usage when idle)=65 watts and an OC'd card 280w-100w=180w give the same credits(albeit at twice the rate)...somethings not right.

I'll run these later tonight and see if this was just a weird coincidence.

[zombie67]

Remember, this project uses the new credit method that DA implemented. It is adaptive. So it will be constantly adjusting the credits awarded. Theoretically, the variations will be large at first, smoothing out over time. In the real world? No idea yet, as this is one of the first projects to use it.

Add to that mess, the admin is also tweaking the formula manually.

[dan]

Remember, this project uses the new credit method that DA implemented. It is adaptive. So it will be constantly adjusting the credits awarded. Theoretically, the variations will be large at first, smoothing out over time. In the real world? No idea yet, as this is one of the first projects to use it.

Add to that mess, the admin is also tweaking the formula manually.

Adaptive? 65K to 8K in one step is a big adaptation. I'm going back to Milkyway if this trend continues.

Dan

[zombie67]

Adaptive? 65K to 8K in one step is a big adaptation. I'm going back to Milkyway if this trend continues.

We don't know if that is due to the adaptive credits, or due to the admin messing with the credit multiplier manually. Or both at the same time. No way to tell. It's a black box.

[Fire$torm]

Remember, this project uses the new credit method that DA implemented. It is adaptive. So it will be constantly adjusting the credits awarded. Theoretically, the variations will be large at first, smoothing out over time. In the real world? No idea yet, as this is one of the first projects to use it.

Add to that mess, the admin is also tweaking the formula manually.

And he does not like the fact that the new scheme is awarding as much as it does on the high side. Does that remind you of anyone............? *cough* DA *cough*