View Full Version : MOO Wrapper Switched to granting static credit
Hi,Due to numerous inconsistencies in the BOINC credit calculation, I've switched to granting static amount of credit based on stat units in a wu. Stat units in a particular wu is the second to last number in it's name and measures the amount of work in a wu.At the moment we are giving 5cr per stat unit, which gives a little over 2kcr per current WU size. We probably switch to 6cr eventually, which gives about 3kcr per current WU size.Partial result crediting works the same way it used to.-w
More... (http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=39)
Beerdrinker
05-12-11, 02:15 PM
Hi,Due to numerous inconsistencies in the BOINC credit calculation, I've switched to granting static amount of credit based on stat units in a wu. Stat units in a particular wu is the second to last number in it's name and measures the amount of work in a wu.At the moment we are giving 5cr per stat unit, which gives a little over 2kcr per current WU size. We probably switch to 6cr eventually, which gives about 3kcr per current WU size.Partial result crediting works the same way it used to.-w
More... (http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=39)
What does this mean? I have no clue of what 2kcr is....:-$
Fire$torm
05-12-11, 02:23 PM
Crap! It figures I would miss out on this one.
2kcr is 2,000 credits or 2.000 for you Europeans.
Beerdrinker
05-12-11, 02:29 PM
Crap! It figures I would miss out on this one.
2cr is 2 credits.
I just returned one MOO WU...Got granted 2240 Credits for 45 mins work.(vs the usual 6xxx) This equals to 2991 CS pr hour.
Collatz will give me around 3020-3050 Cs pr hour...So basicly I am missing out on 29-59 Cs per hour...That adds up you know...:p
Fire$torm
05-12-11, 02:33 PM
Hey Beer, you quoted my post before I made my corrections....... :(
Beerdrinker
05-12-11, 02:55 PM
Hey Beer, you quoted my post before I made my corrections....... :(
I am just that fast....Amazing how much time you get to spend in front of your computer, once your wife gets a dishwasher...:p
Apparently, now they're giving flat rate credit per WU. I'll have to see how this pans out, but right now I'm getting around 2000-2500 per. I WAS averaging 9000. He did mention something about getting them set to around 6k, but he wasn't very clear about it. I wish they'd just get it working and then LEAVE IT ALONE!! :-L Well at any rate, I did my best to snatch up as many credits as possible before it went to the crapper. :-??
trigggl
05-12-11, 04:51 PM
1/4 of the credit is NOT an improvement. I guess I need to go back to Primegrid until he goes back up.
Slicker
05-12-11, 04:57 PM
2K isn't bad on newer ATI cards (approx 190K per day on HD 6970), but it is rotten for any CUDA boxes (16K/day vs 120K/day on PG with a 9800 GTX ). Even at 6K per WU, PG pays twice as much -- at least for CUDA gpus. So, unless you are going for a milestone and don't have an ATI gpu, PG's PPS is still the place to be with CUDA cards.
Figures, just after I figured out how to get my runtimes down to 9 minutes. This will make Milkyway or Colatez better. By Moo!
Dan
2K isn't bad on newer ATI cards (approx 190K per day on HD 6970), but it is rotten for any CUDA boxes (16K/day vs 120K/day on PG with a 9800 GTX ). Even at 6K per WU, PG pays twice as much -- at least for CUDA gpus. So, unless you are going for a milestone and don't have an ATI gpu, PG's PPS is still the place to be with CUDA cards.
Not bad? I was racking up 2.5 - 3 MIL a day on my 6970's (4 of them) until today.:-L
Crazybob
05-13-11, 10:07 AM
Edited and moved.
If you have a BIG cache then you need to dump it. Only the new wu are granting 7 credits per stat versus 5. If you keep crunching the old wu you are limiting your credits.
Project reset on my boxes.
Project reset on my boxes.
Check to see if they got reissued with 7 credits versus 6. Most projects resend you the same wu when you reset. If you are still getting 5 credits then you need to actually abort them.
Ok, I am going to admit my stupidity here and ask a stupid questions. I reset the project and am now getting an average of 2.9K per WU. Is that correct or do I need to abort all my WU's and start again?
Ok, I am going to admit my stupidity here and ask a stupid questions. I reset the project and am now getting an average of 2.9K per WU. Is that correct or do I need to abort all my WU's and start again?
Yep. This conversation got very confusing here. The post was of them change to a fixed credit per wu. It's about 2.5K. So I was confused here about 7k per wu. Haven't seen that since the new policy yesterday.
Anyone know why they made the stupid change??
Maxwell
05-13-11, 10:24 PM
Anyone know why they made the stupid change??
Because DA sucks. Switching to a static credit mode is a good thing. Fine tuning the granted credit is a bit of an art, and they're working through this.
As an FYI, this sort of stuff is common with new projects. It's growing pains. If you're sensitive to that, don't run it. Wait for it to stabilize in a while.
Twas just a simple question.
Because DA sucks. Switching to a static credit mode is a good thing. Fine tuning the granted credit is a bit of an art, and they're working through this.
As an FYI, this sort of stuff is common with new projects. It's growing pains. If you're sensitive to that, don't run it. Wait for it to stabilize in a while.
Sounds like your sensitive to others being sensitive. Does it make you angry when people get angry about a project jerking people around?
Maxwell
05-13-11, 10:47 PM
Sounds like your sensitive to others being sensitive. Does it make you angry when people get angry about a project jerking people around?
A little. This is why I usually don't tell people about new projects.
Yep. This conversation got very confusing here. The post was of them change to a fixed credit per wu. It's about 2.5K. So I was confused here about 7k per wu. Haven't seen that since the new policy yesterday.
Apparently, the number they're changing in the formula is 7, not 7k. It was @ 5, resulting in the 2k credits. Now @ 7, it's giving just over 3k credits.
Beerdrinker
05-14-11, 04:48 AM
Apparently, the number they're changing in the formula is 7, not 7k. It was @ 5, resulting in the 2k credits. Now @ 7, it's giving just over 3k credits.
Well thatīs it. I am moving back to collatz. Runtimes has also increased on my box, and according to my poor maths - I am loosing around 300Cs per hour now vs collatz. So that is one easy desicion.
Cruncher Pete
05-14-11, 05:49 AM
Well thatīs it. I am moving back to collatz. Runtimes has also increased on my box, and according to my poor maths - I am loosing around 300Cs per hour now vs collatz. So that is one easy desicion.
Sorry guys, I am a bit confused here. The way I read it is that Shadow is saying that previously the credit was 2k and with the change it is now 3k. That to me is an improvement. Mind you, my maths is also very poor. What gives?:confused:
Beerdrinker
05-14-11, 06:53 AM
Sorry guys, I am a bit confused here. The way I read it is that Shadow is saying that previously the credit was 2k and with the change it is now 3k. That to me is an improvement. Mind you, my maths is also very poor. What gives?:confused:
Correct. The credit is now 3xxx per WU - but on MY box I am also seeing runtime increased from 26xx Secs to now 42xx+. This means for me, that the credit I can get has lowered from 2991 CS pr hour to now 2600 cs per hour...Thus the 300 statement.
This applies to my pc. It migth be different for someone else.
Cruncher Pete
05-14-11, 07:02 AM
Cool. Now I get it...:o
I don't what else they changed besides credits. My runtimes are holding steady at just over 8 minutes, but my GPU temps shot up into the high 80's. They were staying in the low 70's. Even after downclocking them, they were hitting 88-89 degrees. Checked for a dust bunny invasion, that wasn't it.
Beerdrinker
05-14-11, 12:06 PM
Cool. Now I get it...:o
We gotta make the most of while we can eh? 300 Cs per hour is 300Cs...If we wanna be #1 again sometime, we canīt afford such slack! ;)
I don't what else they changed besides credits. My runtimes are holding steady at just over 8 minutes, but my GPU temps shot up into the high 80's. They were staying in the low 70's. Even after downclocking them, they were hitting 88-89 degrees. Checked for a dust bunny invasion, that wasn't it.
Interesting. Yeah, my HD5870 on the DrPop rig is bouncing off the REV limiter at 90 degrees! I've never seen it go above 86 before, even cranking DNETC like a tornado...:p
OK, hmmm...I would have expected a 5870 @900MHz to get more than what it has so far today...wonder if something is wrong?
Looks like I'm hitting about 3 credits / second. Avg Moo! WU takes 1050 seconds and gives 3150 credits. ~259K per day if that average holds. Little bit above MW, but not as high as DNETC. Sure, we'd love 10K per WU, etc, who wouldn't?
But...in all seriousness, they need to go to 4K / WU to hit DNETC stuff. How do we tell them that? It's pretty optimized code, and you can feel the heat our GPUs are taking a beating for this.
I ran 4 wu through my 5870 @950 yesterday and it appears the daily run rate would be 307k. That compares to about 240k per day on MW. I didn't have any issues with temp but I did have to run the fan up to 80% to keep the card in the 70s.
The current credit level is 14% below the old DNETC level which paid 8.05 credits per stat unit versus the current 7.
I ran 4 wu through my 5870 @950 yesterday and it appears the daily run rate would be 307k. That compares to about 240k per day on MW. I didn't have any issues with temp but I did have to run the fan up to 80% to keep the card in the 70s.
The current credit level is 14% below the old DNETC level which paid 8.05 credits per stat unit versus the current 7.
Did you look at the reported GPU time for your calculations? I was looking at wall clock time versus GPU time, which is more relevant for an estimate of daily credit. The reported GPU time was usually around 850 to 900 seconds, and wall clock was 1260. I'm running with dual cores and it's just not efficient enough, when compared to Milkyway and wall clock times.
Dan
One other note: Running Moo in CF by itself, I was seeing one full core (25% CPU on an i7) being used to run Moo.
Not bad? I was racking up 2.5 - 3 MIL a day on my 6970's (4 of them) until today.:-L
I saw that you had 630K yesterday on Moo? Was that with all 4 6970s? I'm running two 5870s and got 362K on Milkyway. Just wondering if that was the case, cause it suggests Milkyway is better for points than Moo.
Did you look at the reported GPU time for your calculations? I was looking at wall clock time versus GPU time, which is more relevant for an estimate of daily credit. The reported GPU time was usually around 850 to 900 seconds, and wall clock was 1260. I'm running with dual cores and it's just not efficient enough, when compared to Milkyway and wall clock times.
Dan
One other note: Running Moo in CF by itself, I was seeing one full core (25% CPU on an i7) being used to run Moo.
With regards to CPU, I reserve 1 full core (not thread) for the GPU.
Yes, my calculations are based on "wall time" not reported time. On the single 5870 the project actually reports wall time accurately. On dual cards or more what is shown is NOT wall time so you have to look inside the stderr report to get the actual time.
My 5970 (also w/ 4 wu done) projects to 565k/day running at 900 MHz versus 440k on MW.
The only machine that doesn't do better on Moo than MW is my 5970/5870 computer. That is because the wu with odd numbers of packets lets 2 GPUs sit idle while the 3rd one finishes the packet. The BEST configuration by far is a single GPU!
With regards to CPU, I reserve 1 full core (not thread) for the GPU.
Yes, my calculations are based on "wall time" not reported time. On the single 5870 the project actually reports wall time accurately. On dual cards or more what is shown is NOT wall time so you have to look inside the stderr report to get the actual time.
My 5970 (also w/ 4 wu done) projects to 565k/day running at 900 MHz versus 440k on MW.
The only machine that doesn't do better on Moo than MW is my 5970/5870 computer. That is because the wu with odd numbers of packets lets 2 GPUs sit idle while the 3rd one finishes the packet. The BEST configuration by far is a single GPU!
I'm running two 5870s so I probably will do best on Milkyway. I'll run a full day on both to be sure. That is if they are finally done messing with it.
A little. This is why I usually don't tell people about new projects.
It's too bad that new projects are so screwed up. I'm sensitive about it, cause like most here, developing systems is what I do for a living. I hate spending a day at work with systems that don't work right only to come home and get jerked around by some amateur, that didn't do any planning, testing or preparation before releasing a project like Moo.
I saw that you had 630K yesterday on Moo? Was that with all 4 6970s? I'm running two 5870s and got 362K on Milkyway. Just wondering if that was the case, cause it suggests Milkyway is better for points than Moo.
Yeah, that was running all 4 of them. I don't think it was for a full 24 hour period though. I pulled them off the project because they were getting too hot for my liking. They keep tinkering with the workunits and I seriously doubt they have a clue as to what they're doing. I'm not going to let them burn up my cards.
If it's honestly as simple as replacing the "7" in their formula with an "8", does anyone here know anyone over there, so that we can tell them please - if you're going to pound our GPUs this hard, then up the credit to the 8, so that it gives us DNETC like credit?
Thanks...I just can't figure out why this is so hard for them if it's just changing a single number. Maybe there is more to it that I don't understand?...:confused:
A few people have mentioned that the credits are still too low compared to DNETC. Apparently this Teemu guy doesn't get it. I'm back on it for now, at least til I get the 25 Mil MM. We're in 2nd place for top teams on the project. He's threatening to release another new version soon. Don't know if that's good or bad.
Fire$torm
05-15-11, 02:18 AM
He's threatening to release another new version soon. Don't know if that's good or bad.
Hope for the best and prepare for for the worst?
Hope for the best and prepare for for the worst?
No, just expect the worst.
No, just expect the worst.
Love that positive thinking! :p
trigggl
05-15-11, 05:40 PM
No, just expect the worst.
Are you sure you're not a motorcyclist?
Are you sure you're not a motorcyclist?
Then would it be.....prepare for death!! :p
YoDude9999
05-16-11, 10:55 PM
Moo's not worth my time. I can't seem the get moo to run any faster than 1 hour 45 mins on a pair of 5870s. With the credit where it is, it's just not worth the effort and electric bill to run them. Moo is not a TopGun project, though Milestoners may acquire a taste for it.
Yo-
Yeah, it dont run well on dual cards. Single cards seem to run just fine for me though.
Maxwell
05-16-11, 11:02 PM
Moo's not worth my time. I can't seem the get moo to run any faster than 1 hour 45 mins on a pair of 5870s. With the credit where it is, it's just not worth the effort and electric bill to run them. Moo is not a TopGun project, though Milestoners may acquire a taste for it.
Yo-
Do you have a second box you could stick one of the 5870s in? If you run AMD/CUDA in the same box, WUs don't span across the two cards.
Of course, if you're not interested in Moo, then don't worry about it. ;)
YoDude9999
05-16-11, 11:05 PM
Glad you got it while the gettin' was good.....
Yo-
@ Shadow.....
Glad you got it while the gettin' was good.....
Shadow has a girlfriend??? :p;)
Maxwell
05-16-11, 11:27 PM
Shadow has a girlfriend??? :p;)
Dude - I see Shadow all the time at your Mom's house.
Dude - I see Shadow all the time at your Mom's house.
Do you film Max???
Duke of Buckingham
05-16-11, 11:34 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3652/3374652581_d85f95eb92.jpg
I did
Fire$torm
05-16-11, 11:56 PM
Moo's not worth my time. I can't seem the get moo to run any faster than 1 hour 45 mins on a pair of 5870s. With the credit where it is, it's just not worth the effort and electric bill to run them. Moo is not a TopGun project, though Milestoners may acquire a taste for it.
Yo-
Do you have a second box you could stick one of the 5870s in? If you run AMD/CUDA in the same box, WUs don't span across the two cards.
Of course, if you're not interested in Moo, then don't worry about it. ;)
Couldn't you restrict that project to only use one GPU with app_info.xml file? Then you could run a diff app on the other card.
Couldn't you restrict that project to only use one GPU with app_info.xml file? Then you could run a diff app on the other card.
You probably could. I would vote for 1 ATI card and 1 NVIDIA card in each rig, for him, though. :D Moo! and PG all out simultaneously! :o:cool:
zombie67
05-17-11, 01:21 AM
Things I have learned: The wall clock reported for a task on the site does not reflect actual wall time. Not important any more since they are now awarding fixed credits. But don't base the value on the tine reported. Base it on the time you actually see in your BONCmgr. Then do the c/h math.
Dude - I see Shadow all the time at your Mom's house.
Seems to be a line forming....:-o:))
Mike029
05-17-11, 04:24 PM
@Yo
I'm running these on my duel 5870's at about 10 mins a wu. If you are gaming or running videos it takes over an hour to do one wu. I've noticed that running YouTube drops the:o clocks :odown to 400 and it takes forever to complete any wu's. I've seen this on my 5870's and my Cuda cards (PG runs on the Cuda, Moo on the ATI) in both Vista and Win 7. Perhaps that is the problem your seeing?
YouTube drops the cocks down to 400
What videos are you watching??? X_X
What videos are you watching??? X_X
lololololol! .... ROFL!!!....=)):((:((:))=))=)) ...those "cocks" are 400 MEGA hertz, huh? *Singing*..."My MEGA HURTS so bad baby!..."
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