Server Class Machines

[dan]

Anyone running with a server class machine? I'm thinking about going to rack mounted 1Us. You can grab some refurbished dual core xeons for about $200. I'd love to get a boxhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105800 with 4 X 8 core xeons but $30,000 is a bit much :-)

Dan

[Mumps]

Anyone running with a server class machine? I'm thinking about going to rack mounted 1Us. You can grab some refurbished dual core xeons for about $200. I'd love to get a boxhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105800 with 4 X 8 core xeons but $30,000 is a bit much :-)

Dan

I'm running with a bunch of HP's. Primarily BL465 G7's, but also a large number of DL360 G4p's. (Dual Xeon P4's @ 3.4 Ghz) Biggest thing to think about is the HP's don't have a wiring harness to let you install GPUs. No 6 or 8 pin connectors like the GPU's need. And you need to get to the DL360 G5's before they even have PCIe slots in any case. So you'll pretty much be CPU only crunching with them. Their fans are also very noisy. Not something you'll want in a room you'll be living or working in.

[dan]

I'm running with a bunch of HP's. Primarily BL465 G7's, but also a large number of DL360 G4p's. (Dual Xeon P4's @ 3.4 Ghz) Biggest thing to think about is the HP's don't have a wiring harness to let you install GPUs. No 6 or 8 pin connectors like the GPU's need. And you need to get to the DL360 G5's before they even have PCIe slots in any case. So you'll pretty much be CPU only crunching with them. Their fans are also very noisy. Not something you'll want in a room you'll be living or working in.

I've seen the G4's going for $200. Did you get the G5's to run any graphics cards? What about power? Any special mods there?

We have a lot of 1Us sitting around the office so I'm well aware of the noise. I even am beginning to think they are affecting my hearing :-(

Thanks,

Dan

[Mumps]

I've seen the G4's going for $200. Did you get the G5's to run any graphics cards? What about power? Any special mods there?

We have a lot of 1Us sitting around the office so I'm well aware of the noise. I even am beginning to think they are affecting my hearing :-(

Thanks,

Dan
You could actually run any of the older GPU's that don't require the additional power. But that's not going to get you much in return. (Although, at that level, the points are good considering the minimal extra power draw.) The only add-on part I've seen for those Proliants for power was for the DL585 G6/G7 models. HP didn't have a set of cables, much less connections, in their older model servers to allow for adding power cables like that.

The models I have available don't normally have PCIe slots, and I don't have any GPU's that I can test with that don't require the additional power. I've been hoping to fall into something like that eventually, but I'm still stuck waiting.

[dan]

You could actually run any of the older GPU's that don't require the additional power. But that's not going to get you much in return. (Although, at that level, the points are good considering the minimal extra power draw.) The only add-on part I've seen for those Proliants for power was for the DL585 G6/G7 models. HP didn't have a set of cables, much less connections, in their older model servers to allow for adding power cables like that.

The models I have available don't normally have PCIe slots, and I don't have any GPU's that I can test with that don't require the additional power. I've been hoping to fall into something like that eventually, but I'm still stuck waiting.

I'm finding 2 X dual core xeon boxes with no HD costing $89. I was thinking I could PXE boot the servers. Any idea how many I could run in rack with a 20 AMP circuit?

Thanks!

[Steve Bohlen]

Anyone running with a server class machine? I'm thinking about going to rack mounted 1Us. You can grab some refurbished dual core xeons for about $200. I'd love to get a boxhttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16859105800 with 4 X 8 core xeons but $30,000 is a bit much :-)

Dan

I picked up a dual core xeon rack sever about 2 weeks ago. Been running great. Sounds like a similar deal as what you are looking at. Some details here:

http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?1324-New-Cruncher-Online

[dan]

I picked up a dual core xeon rack sever about 2 weeks ago. Been running great. Sounds like a similar deal as what you are looking at. Some details here:

http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?1324-New-Cruncher-Online

Nice. Are you building a rack of them or just the one?

[Steve Bohlen]

Nice. Are you building a rack of them or just the one?

Just one for now. I picked it up really just due to price. I couldn't find a desktop in the same price range with the same power.

You got me thinking about more than one a bit more seriously now...hmmm

[Slicker]

One thing to conside in the 1U cases are that the 40mm fans are loud. Very loud. I think the HPs have either 6 or 8 of them between the hard drives and the rest of the system to draw air in thru the front and expel it out the back. The CPU coolers and fans are also pretty small although designed for decent air flow. The 1U cases often require proprietary DVD drives as well which make them more expensive. As far as 1U Xeons, I've got both Dell and HP and I like HP better. Also, quad core opteron processors can be had for $110 and have larger L2 and L3 caches than the $200 Intel server chips. Finding a multi-cpu MB may be a challenge though.

[dan]

One thing to conside in the 1U cases are that the 40mm fans are loud. Very loud. I think the HPs have either 6 or 8 of them between the hard drives and the rest of the system to draw air in thru the front and expel it out the back. The CPU coolers and fans are also pretty small although designed for decent air flow. The 1U cases often require proprietary DVD drives as well which make them more expensive. As far as 1U Xeons, I've got both Dell and HP and I like HP better. Also, quad core opteron processors can be had for $110 and have larger L2 and L3 caches than the $200 Intel server chips. Finding a multi-cpu MB may be a challenge though.

We have a boat load of 1Us sitting around the office and they are loud. For the challenges this team does it seems CPU power is more important. For now I don't care about HDs or CD ROMs. I think I can PXE boot and use my linux box for NFS for and Disk space needed. So I just need the case, motherboard, memory and CPUs. Sounds like a fun project to set up.

Dan

[John P. Myers]

So this thread got me interested in a server again. Newegg has plenty of dual and quad CPU boards. But the main thing i had never looked at before were cases. And of course the first one i saw that i liked was a $1400 315lb 42U rack chassis. I could really force the local electric company to step up production if i stuff that thing full :D

Why can't i just look at normal things :(

[Mr. Hankey]

So this thread got me interested in a server again. Newegg has plenty of dual and quad CPU boards. But the main thing i had never looked at before were cases. And of course the first one i saw that i liked was a $1400 315lb 42U rack chassis. I could really force the local electric company to step up production if i stuff that thing full :D

Why can't i just look at normal things :(

well its all just a matter of money.... I mean you could get yourself a dell blade setup, 16 blades / chassis dual xenon 5600 series that is like 128 threads right there in a 10u package.

[John P. Myers]

well its all just a matter of money.... I mean you could get yourself a dell blade setup, 16 blades / chassis dual xenon 5600 series that is like 128 threads right there in a 10u package.

ehhh...will never own anything Dell. But that does sound more reasonable.

[Mumps]

ehhh...will never own anything Dell. But that does sound more reasonable.

HP will happily sell you a 10U Chassis with 16 Dual processors blades as well. I'll vouch for that :) (And for only $140K! Could be a lot cheaper without all the SAN connectivity stuff...)

256 Cores in one of my 10U blade chassis. Could be 384 with the 12 Core Opterons...

[DrPop]

...256 Cores in one of my 10U blade chassis. Could be 384 with the 12 Core Opterons...

Oh my goodness. There is just no way an individual can compete with that kind of stuff. Simply amazing. #-o^:)^

[Mumps]

We have a boat load of 1Us sitting around the office and they are loud. For the challenges this team does it seems CPU power is more important. For now I don't care about HDs or CD ROMs. I think I can PXE boot and use my linux box for NFS for and Disk space needed. So I just need the case, motherboard, memory and CPUs. Sounds like a fun project to set up.

Dan

Well, with any of the HP's from basically the G4p models on, all the "SAS" models can use a standard 2.5 inch SATA laptop drive. Just needs their "Hot swap tray." You'll also want to be sure you get at least one power supply as those are proprietary too. And while it's nice to have the redundant PS's, I did notice at one point that there is a hit if you do so. The server will consume about 10% more power if you have 2 PS's installed than if it only has one.

As to power draw, it was looking like roughly 0.54 KvA for a fully loaded Dual P4 system with drives. That was at 208 volt, so expect about a 4% premium if you feed them 110 volt. So guessing your 20 AMP circuit is at 110 volt, at the standard 80% Derating, that gets you about 1.7 KvA, so safely only about 3-4 of them.

[zombie67]

Their fans are also very noisy. Not something you'll want in a room you'll be living or working in.

Let's face it, the 1U form factor does not prioritize noise reduction. It's damn tight, with small, high-speed fans. They are going to be loud, and worse, high pitched. And the density creates other problems. You stack a bunch of them into a small space, how do you get power to that many on a single circuit in your house? Not impossible to solve, but difficult.

[Fire$torm]

NewEgg Shell Shocker Deal - From 1:00 PM to 3:59 PM PDT (Today Only)

Rosewill RSV-L4000 Black 4U Server Case - $79.99 - Reg. $109.99

Shell Shocker Link (http://e.newegg.com/servlet/cc6?gLmkQWWDQWWTVloXWYSxPHohhQJhuVaVUWVXLX)

[dan]

NewEgg Shell Shocker Deal - From 1:00 PM to 3:59 PM PDT (Today Only)

Rosewill RSV-L4000 Black 4U Server Case - $79.99 - Reg. $109.99

Shell Shocker Link (http://e.newegg.com/servlet/cc6?gLmkQWWDQWWTVloXWYSxPHohhQJhuVaVUWVXLX)

Nice womans watch. I didn't know you could use them as a server case. But I'm new to this server thingy.

Found a Hp Dl360, with two dual core xeons for $91 bucks on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180666771537&category=51215&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_4071wt_1139

[dan]

So what do you think would give more bang the server parts below or a new i7. The i7 would be cheaper since all I need, is memory, CPU and a case, but the server might be more fun. So which would be the better choice for the team?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811123141

Two CPUs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819105266


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131643

[DrPop]

I'll have to let the big boys chime in about the server side, but I do know that nothing beats an i7 Sandy Bridge for "crunching power" per watt of electricity.

Unfortunately, my hardcore O/Ced AMD X6 is a little power hungry, especially with 3 GPUs. :D >:)

[rgathright]

So what do you think would give more bang the server parts below or a new i7. The i7 would be cheaper since all I need, is memory, CPU and a case, but the server might be more fun. So which would be the better choice for the team?


I still suggest the team look into AMD Dual G34 motherboards with AMD 6128 processors. My machine has been returning amazing numbers with an E-ATX form factor that will be able to take those amazing new 16 core AMD processors coming out later this year. The upgrade potential for the initial investment is really remarkable.

Here is what I am doing with the 2x AMD Opteron 6128 processors right now.
http://www.rechenkraft.net/yoyo/show_host_detail.php?hostid=52820

No, even as a server administrator myself, I do not recommend building a cluster with 1U or 4U parts. :-o They always cost more in the long run (SAS drives, potential need for ECC ram, proprietary PSU's) and are louder than using desktop computer cases to house similar dual socket motherboards.

[dan]

I'll have to let the big boys chime in about the server side, but I do know that nothing beats an i7 Sandy Bridge for "crunching power" per watt of electricity.

Unfortunately, my hardcore O/Ced AMD X6 is a little power hungry, especially with 3 GPUs. :D >:)

No SandyBridge here. I have an extra 1156 board not being used, so it would probably be an i7 860. No idea how the AMD compares to intel CPUs, I've never ever worked on an AMD platform.

Dan

[dan]

I still suggest the team look into AMD Dual G34 motherboards with AMD 6128 processors. My machine has been returning amazing numbers with an E-ATX form factor that will be able to take those amazing new 16 core AMD processors coming out later this year. The upgrade potential for the initial investment is really remarkable.

Here is what I am doing with the 2x AMD Opteron 6128 processors right now.
http://www.rechenkraft.net/yoyo/show_host_detail.php?hostid=52820

No, even as a server administrator myself, I do not recommend building a cluster with 1U or 4U parts. :-o They always cost more in the long run (SAS drives, potential need for ECC ram, proprietary PSU's) and are louder than using desktop computer cases to house similar dual socket motherboards.

Nice results. Here is an i7 950. Looks like your kicking my a**.

http://www.rechenkraft.net/yoyo/show_host_detail.php?hostid=52655

What dual CPU motherboard do you use? What does your build have in it?

Thanks,

Dan

[Fire$torm]

Nice womans watch. I didn't know you could use them as a server case. But I'm new to this server thingy.

Found a Hp Dl360, with two dual core xeons for $91 bucks on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180666771537&category=51215&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_4071wt_1139

:P :P Shell Shocker Deals are listed in time frames or slots. The case does not list until 1:00 PM PDT hence my note of same in my previous post. :P :P

[Dandasarge]

Ya'll guys kill me :) If you want to see an awesome blade set up Google "atlas folding farm" The guy has the template, no need to reinvent something that works great. You don't have to use the same parts but his setup is logical. Basically any folding system will work great on PG.

Some of there single computers would out produce our biggest guys. 3m point computers could you see that? they have guys with water cooled racks. Its amazing. Google "folding farm" just be prepared that some of those guys have thousands of dollars more then your house in rigs.

This is the Atlas Build form page.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8249

[DrPop]

Ya'll guys kill me :) If you want to see an awesome blade set up Google "atlas folding farm" The guy has the template, no need to reinvent something that works great. . .

This is the Atlas Build form page.

http://foldingforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=8249

Huh. After reading that thread I am left with an idea. Is there some way you could put those suckers on a manifold of sorts and have them heat..,say, radiant floor heating, or even a hot tub, maybe? I don't have a house right now - heck, I need to get into an apartment first :p, but what a cool thought...someday my radiant floor heating and/or hot tub could be powered by...a GIANT crunching farm! :D

[Dandasarge]

Huh. After reading that thread I am left with an idea. Is there some way you could put those suckers on a manifold of sorts and have them heat..,say, radiant floor heating, or even a hot tub, maybe? I don't have a house right now - heck, I need to get into an apartment first :p, but what a cool thought...someday my radiant floor heating and/or hot tub could be powered by...a GIANT crunching farm! :D

HAHA go read the thermal loop thread, yes you can heat anything you want. shower water hot tubs exc. your house..

[rgathright]

Nice results. Here is an i7 950. Looks like your kicking my a**.

http://www.rechenkraft.net/yoyo/show_host_detail.php?hostid=52655

What dual CPU motherboard do you use? What does your build have in it?

Thanks,

Dan

ASUS KGPE-D16 motherboard
16xDDR3 1600Mhz Ram
2x AMD Opteron 6128 processors.

What makes my rig so interesting is that October 2011, I plan on installing two of the new 16 core AMD Bulldozer cpus in it. The total cpu power generated by just one of these new AMD Opteron cpu's will far exceed both of the ones in the motherboard right now!

[dan]

Did my research and made a decision.

Adding a server that would be comparable to the crunching of my desktop is the most interesting and I think would be a fun project. However, to put one in the ballpark of processing power found in either of my two PCs, I'd be putting out around $2500. Unless I built a rack of cheap HP DL360s, but then my power bill would go through the roof.

The multi core AMD processors looks real cool. I found a board on new egg with 4 g34 sockets. By the end of the year that thing could have 64 cores running on it. That could easily be a $5,000 machine. Still would like to do this. Can't imagine 64 Primaboinca process working at the same time.

So then I looked at Intel. The benchmarks are showing Intel processors stomping the AMD processors. The i7 2600k is the best processor for the price on the market, but to build a new box with one of those would run me between $1,000 and $2,000. Plus I want to wait for the new 2011 sockets coming out at the end of this year, since those are reported to be the new top end processors for Intel replacing chips in the 1366 sockets.

So looking around, it looks like going from an i7 950 to an i7 980x would double my cpu processing power. So I started looking if I sell my slightly used i7 950, the upgrade will run me about $500. So this was probably the most economical choice. New CPU arrives Tuesday :-)

I'm also looking at the sub $100 servers on ebay as a fun experiment. Hope to share more on this.

Plus I can't stop drooling at that 4 CPU AMD board.

Been fun. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Dan

[DrPop]

Hmm...interesting. I suppose it might be a wash on the price, but i've seen several benchmarks showing the i7 2600K Sandy Bridge equal to an older i7 980x in most things...for a lot less money. Just thinking outloud, it would be~ $460 for a decent mobo& the 2600K...then you could sell your current setup and pocket the difference.
All that said, I wonder if those benchmarks hold true to crunching ...can the 2600K really keep up with the brute force of the 6 core 980x???

[dan]

Hmm...interesting. I suppose it might be a wash on the price, but i've seen several benchmarks showing the i7 2600K Sandy Bridge equal to an older i7 980x in most things...for a lot less money. Just thinking outloud, it would be~ $460 for a decent mobo& the 2600K...then you could sell your current setup and pocket the difference.
All that said, I wonder if those benchmarks hold true to crunching ...can the 2600K really keep up with the brute force of the 6 core 980x???

I've seen the same benchmarks. But other benchmarks (Pass Mark), put the 980x about 13% better. I kind of looked at it as and ATI vs Nvidia sort of debate. The one thing I know for sure is that even I can OC the 980x. Unlocked multipliers make it idiot proof. My 4Ghz 950 OC still has some stability problems.

Plus like I said, I'm skipping Sandy Bridge and waiting for Ivy Bridge. And no way am I selling my box, I like it the way it is, just want more umph for CPU computing.

I would say if your building a new box for performance at a reasonable price the 2600K is the way to go. If price isn't a concern, then the 4 socket g34 board, is way too cool.

Dan

[DrPop]

Dan, that makes good sense. At some point you just can't beat more physical cores, I think. I will love to see your results with the 6 core 980x - what a powerful CPU indeed! Please post some pics and let us know what your final O/C is! Will love to see the CPU damage you and rgathright can do together in the next PG Challenge. :D

[dan]

Dan, that makes good sense. At some point you just can't beat more physical cores, I think. I will love to see your results with the 6 core 980x - what a powerful CPU indeed! Please post some pics and let us know what your final O/C is! Will love to see the CPU damage you and rgathright can do together in the next PG Challenge. :D



rgathright performance on his dual 6128 sockets, was my goal for this upgrade. I'm hoping to keep up with him on the next challenge. If not there is always to four socket board....

[rgathright]

rgathright performance on his dual 6128 sockets, was my goal for this upgrade. I'm hoping to keep up with him on the next challenge. If not there is always to four socket board....

Right on. :-bd

All I am trying to do is find the right "base system" for an affordable high-end cruncher.

Currently, I am adding GPU's to the AMD box. As a result, I get the baseline cpu boost from any project I focus on and the graphics cards help me push it all over the top. :D

If enough of us upgrade our baseline power in this manner then I fear any team that tries to challenge us!L-)

[Cruncher Pete]

I have 2 x 980's and a 2600 as well. All I can say is that I love that 12 threads of the 980. Having said that, the 2600 is good for its price and will replace my now old q6600 quads. 8 threads is still better than 4 for about the same price that I payed for the quads a couple of years ago. I can't give you benchmark figures but they both OC well if that is what you want. Personally, I am only a modest overclocker and am happy that way, hoping it will last longer. Thinking of trying out the 6 core AMD as well next, but not in the immediate future. (Funds are hard to manage on a pension.)

[rgathright]

... Thinking of trying out the 6 core AMD as well next, but not in the immediate future. (Funds are hard to manage on a pension.)

Waiting is a very smart idea! The upcoming Bulldozer's will feature up to 8 cores and have at least 50% more crunching power than current AMD 1100T x6 processors at a base price of $290 for the baseline 8 cores, FX-8110.:x
http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/amdbulldozerlianofiyat_dh_fx57.jpg

Here are some early leaked benchmark results of the Bulldozer FX-8110
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/display/20110511161053_AMD_FX_8110_Zambezi_Clock_Speeds_Be nchmark_Results_Emerge_on_Web.html

I have not even begun to estimate what the "stream cores" will mean for BOINC, but it has to be good!

[Dandasarge]

Wow look at those prices, they are almost giving them away! not sure my current build will hold that. It dose show though that CPU's ain't getting better, just more efficient. I don't think the speeds are going to be as great as you think. I say that for 2 reasons

first a lot of talk on that screen shot bing fake.
second engineering sets are always better then the real deal.

It would however be retarded for them to produce something new that doesn't blow the doors off the i7. So I think it will be fast just not cum in your pants fast.

The question I have is that, are they going to make these with decent GPU's or are we looking at your basic motherboard chip now on the CPU? I would guess from the numbers that these things are going to be crap.

[rgathright]

...
The question I have is that, are they going to make these with decent GPU's or are we looking at your basic motherboard chip now on the CPU? I would guess from the numbers that these things are going to be crap.

Two Models; Basic CPU & graphics CPU (targeted at mobile platforms).

I totally agree that if these Bulldozers are not faster than current Intel cpu's then there IS NO REASON for Intel users to upgrade.:o

All costs removed... INTEL STILL KICKS AMD in the arse! \m/

However, for our team members that have AMD AM3 socket motherboards, these should be drop in replacements that will significantly boost their BOINC RAC for a minimal upgrade cost, when compared to upgrading motherboard & CPU.:D

[dan]

243

Just finished OCing the 980x I upgraded on my main box 4.39 Ghz is stable. I got it all the way up to 4.7, but it was too hot.