2GPU vs 3GPU...Cases...Decisions

[DrPop]

Man, I am torn. What I need now is a case with 8 slots (at least) in the back, so I can run the 3 GPUs in the DrPop rig without having it naked on my table. ;)

However, I am seeing the reality of a 3GPU rig is not all that glorious when it's all said and done. A LOT of heat output going on.

So...I'm wondering if I should just save up the $ I would spend on a good HAF-X or something (not an insignificant amount!), and then sell some of my smaller GPUs I have purchased, and get a HOG GPU or two for the DrPop rig, throw it back in the HAF-932, and be content with that. :confused::o

I am starting to come to the realization (I think) that fewer, bigger GPUs are better than lots of smaller ones. Any comments for me on this from the rig builders here?

[trigggl]

If you need someone to pawn off a smaller GPU to...

I may have the ability in a month or so.

[joker]

I want a 460! :p;)

[DrPop]

Alright, thanks guys. Good to know there are possibly some takers for the regular size GPUs I have now, if I decide to go that route.
Trig- knowing your affinity for Gentoo, I suppose you want a CUDA board as well, right?

What say the big rig builders around here? Is the fewer but more powerful GPUs the best way to go?

[John P. Myers]

:-?
8->
~X(
:-??

[DrPop]

:-?
8->
~X(
:-??

Lol! With a response like that from JPM, I suppose I need to think on this one for a bit. Let me hold off on the decisions until after the Pentathlon, and I can try the DrPop rig with matched set of 3 GTX 460's - that will probably be a lot more manageable on the heat.:p;)

[John P. Myers]

Lol! With a response like that from JPM, I suppose I need to think on this one for a bit. Let me hold off on the decisions until after the Pentathlon, and I can try the DrPop rig with matched set of 3 GTX 460's - that will probably be a lot more manageable on the heat.:p;)

I guess the thing that would help the most is explaining exactly what your issue with the heat is. If it's about the amount of heat going into your room, then i'll have to refer you back to my last post :p If it's about the temperature of your computer parts, get a HAF X :D

[DrPop]

Yes, it is the temp of the cards I am concerned with! The HD5870 is bouncing around 91C as we speak...I do not like them to run so high. :( Much cooler when I was running 2 GPUs in the HAF 932 instead of 3 GPUs laying open on a table.

[Maxwell]

This was something I faced a while back... so let me explain my thought process so you at least have another perspective.

Back in the days of building the Silver Hammer, I was figuring whether to go many GPU, or Big-and-Few GPU, very similar to what you're thinking. I had a computer at work that had two 5870s in it in adjacent slots, and dealt with a lot of heat issues. I had read enough on the boards to know heat was going to be one of my big issues. Bryan was also studly enough to loudly proclaim the HAF-932 to be awesome.

So HAF-932 would get me enough airflow to cool big cards, even with OC'ing. I got a Mobo with an extra slot between the PCIe slots to help with cooling. With the extra space, things would be cool. Operating under the KISS principle, 2 cards is easier to manage than 3, so I went with two. With limited PCIe slots, I went big, rather than bulk. The rest of my hardware could handle two big cards. Big may not have been the most economical choice (I actually refuse to do the calculations, because I don't want to know the answer), but it got me more credits/slot than anything else. Hindsight being 20/20, I don't regret the decision.

That was my train of thought. Also notice that JPM went big with the Maxwell Spanker... ;)

[John P. Myers]

That was my train of thought. Also notice that JPM went big with the Maxwell Spanker... ;)

Yes. But it depends what his final goal is. I went big for the purpose of increasing the credits/slot. That's the most important factor. You only have X number of slots, so make the most of them.

But...let's say DrPop's goal/budget isn't to make a 3mil credit/day machine. Then buying up 460s and filling his slots with them still gives very nice credit returns for a lower price. As soon as he converts those GPUs into just 2 that are more powerful, that empty slot is going to be staring at him, begging to be filled. I still have 2 open slots myself and they poke me in the shoulder everyday and say, "Hey! What about me?".

I've never had a HAF 932, so i dunno. But the HAF X has a 230mm fan that feeds a 120mm fan which is inside of a duct that cups around your GPUs, forcing air to them. Then there's another 200mm fan on the side that feeds air to them from the other direction. And this is all fresh, ambient air. Again, not sure about the HAF 932, but the HAF X doesn't even allow the PSU to draw intake from within the case. It draws in air through the bottom of the case and shoots it right out the back.

Also has spots for 2 200mm fans on top and 1 140mm exhaust fan on back.

Also, i only use 2 of the HAF X's 5.25" drive bays, so i stuck a 140mm intake fan in there (They are the perfect width to fit between the drive support braces).

Positive pressure is your answer.

[DrPop]

Thanks guys, I am appreciating the discussion. JPM- if you have time, could you please look at a HAF 932 on Cooler Master's site, and also the ASRock Deluxe4 AM3 890FX mobo- -that is what I have. I think it is comparable in a lot if ways to the HAF X, but they made some goos improvements to the newer X model. Also, the X has more expansion slots in the back, so you can do 3, maybe even 4!?! GPUs. I can only do 2 with the the 932 because my mobo has 2 spaces between the first two PCI-e slots. I would give you links but I am typing on phone here.

Things were much cooler in the case vs just sitting caseless on table. What I need to decide (help).is whether spending nearly $200 on a new case just so I can run 3 GPUs is worth it; when I could, say, pump that same $ into a bigger GPU and just have 2, and therefore keep the HAF 932 case.
Thanks.
PS- we are talking about me having to save up at this point, so a while to think about it...either way, I couldn't do anything about it tomorrow type deal.:(

[John P. Myers]

With the HAF X and my motherboard, i can actually do 4 double width GPUs and 1 single width. But i think the inside of my case would be a complete mess after that :p

I'll look at the HAF 932 and see what it offers in a few mins.

Edit: That case looks ok. If you have it, why aren't you using it? :p

[Cruncher Pete]

Thanks guys, I am appreciating the discussion. JPM- if you have time, could you please look at a HAF 932 on Cooler Master's site, and also the ASRock Deluxe4 AM3 890FX mobo- -that is what I have. I think it is comparable in a lot if ways to the HAF X, but they made some goos improvements to the newer X model. Also, the X has more expansion slots in the back, so you can do 3, maybe even 4!?! GPUs. I can only do 2 with the the 932 because my mobo has 2 spaces between the first two PCI-e slots. I would give you links but I am typing on phone here.

Things were much cooler in the case vs just sitting caseless on table. What I need to decide (help).is whether spending nearly $200 on a new case just so I can run 3 GPUs is worth it; when I could, say, pump that same $ into a bigger GPU and just have 2, and therefore keep the HAF 932 case.
Thanks.
PS- we are talking about me having to save up at this point, so a while to think about it...either way, I couldn't do anything about it tomorrow type deal.:(

Hello hello, Dr Pop. I just discovered how you spend your supposed spare time between patients. On the phone looking after BOINC matters. Good on you, that is one way of doing it. As regards the HAF932 or later cases, I can assure you that they are the choice of most serious crunchers. I only have one of those but I wish I had more for some of my machines are running on the bench without cases. Sorry, I can not help you with your MB as I am unfamiliar with it. I only use ASUS or Gigabyte boards myself as I have had bad experience with others including Asrock some time ago. That does not mean that they are no good just simply once bitten twice shy as far as I am concerned. By the way he number of GPU's you can use is determined by the board you are using for even a cheap case will house them but you will not have the airflow and room as is provided by the HAF cases.

Good luck in your upgrade and get back to your patients...:)

[dan]

My concern for you is with all those rigs and GPUs when will you start having brown outs in your house ;)

But really, lots of cases will work as long as you have good airflow. I've got side fans and wind tunnels in my Antec cases, but the biggest factor in keeping my 580 running 50C OC'd is the fan it has. I bought a card with one of those Artic Cooling fans and a backplate. You know the one with three fans. It is absolutely amazing on temps. You can get them to add to your card also, but you need to make sure it will work with your card The other thing that helps to some degree is the spacing between cards. Double width cards right on top of each other are lousy at moving away heat. My dual 5870s are in slots 1 and 4 which helps them move air. So a mother board that has your PCIe slots two apart is less desirable then one that has them three slots apart. Plus I'm starting to see tripple width cards. The last thing to affect temps is ambient room temp. If you can't keep the room your boxes are in cool, then your cards will add Cs to their temps.

Another thought, forget water cooling. There are some well engineered air cooling solutions that are just as effective. I've had water cooling for my CPU and my Zalman fan, keeps temps lower. Water cooling is a myth. Now if we could get some freon cooling or nitrogen cooling...

[Dorsilfin]

Id probably shut them off for a few weeks to let them cool off...(So youdontpassme)..

in reality right now ive got my 570's overclocked pretty well.. 810 up from 732, and they are stacked on a 2 pci board

top card is 64C
bottom card is 54C (better access to airflow)

im not sure id if i had a large enough mobo stack a 3rd card.. the top card is snug and only has a little gap to get air with, while the bottom card has its fan wide open (Stock gtx570's) so adding a third is going to constrict that 2nd card and depending on the space might run hot itself..

Id rather see big gpu's in smaller quantity running cool then having a bunch of cards crammed into a case or even laying out in the open running hot.

Just my opinion.. running Bare (nocase) in my mind is dangerous as the mobo isnt grounded to the case/psu/electric and I've always thought that was a bad idea.

[Mike029]

I know we spoke about this a few weeks ago and I forgot to send it to you. I got the idea from F$ if memory serves. These can be up to 12 inches long and will allow space for the card to breath. Lots of flexibility with these. :-bd b-) Here are two companies. This may save you having to spend the money on a new case. Then you can buy another GPU. :-$

http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/pe-flex16-g2-p-15074.html?ref=base

http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/imagemagic.php?img=../i/15074-m.jpg&w=700&h=650&page=popup

http://www.risercards.ca/products/Flexible-PCI-Express-%28PCIe%29-Extender-Riser-Card-.html

http://www.risercards.ca/product_images/v/756/pe-flex4__56397_zoom.jpg

[Shadow]

I've tried running a tri 6970 setup. It didn't work well at all. The center card ran super hot and ended up going into self preservation mode and downclocking. It actually hurt my numbers. So now I'm running two boxes, each with 2 6970's, slots 1 and 4 to keep a 1 slot space between them.

[Dandasarge]

Dear Dr Pop.

No matter your combo the heat outside of the computer Per credit (approx) will be the same. It's the inside of the case that is hard to dissipate. Not every build is easy to figure out. I'm right now studying 100cfm per GPU. You're standard case fan's wont touch what you need. As an alt you can always take off the side and stand a box fan next to it.

Also I'm sure you have used a program like MSI Afterburner to change the fan settings. right?

Credits come 2 ways, Easy or Cheep. You can't have both. If you want easy go get a 580 :).

[John P. Myers]

Screw it all. Just get the HAF X and some swiftech waterblocks for your GPUs :p both of my GTX590s are OC'd to 1386 MHz. Know what their temperature is? 39C. Yep, just 39C. I had them OC'd to 1512 MHz for awhile, and then they ran at only 43C.

Why did i clock them back down? Well....on the 590s, the memory is on the back of the card and therefore not covered by the waterblock. I never raised the memory speed, but with an increased processor speed, the memory gets more of a workout and it ran blisteringly hot. After touching the back of the card, i swear i nearly melted my fingerprints off.

I don't have the GPU air duct installed, which would help tremendously with that. Also the side panel can't be put on which would throw some more air on the backs of the cards. When i get around to all of that, i'll be able to OC the cards back to 1512, and most likely higher.

With the HAF 932, i don't know that i could do this. The HAF X has 220 CFM more airflow than the HAF 932 (of which 110 CFM is right on top of the GPUs). Still, the HAF 932 is a great case. Just make sure you use the proper 120mm inside the GPU air duct (150CFM+ and up to 38mm thick).

[DrPop]

OK, wait a sec, it seems there is some miscommunication on my end some how.
1. I like that HAF 932 case, I was using it with 2 GPUs, and would still be using it, but I can't fit 3 GPUs in there. This is because the case only has 7 expansion slots in the back, and to run 3 GPUs on my mobo (or any mobo that has 2 slot spaces between GPU1 and GPU2, you MUST have a case that has 8 or more expansion slots in the back.

I wish I had realized that before I bought this case and mobo, etc...but I pieced it all together as I got the money, and didn't realize it all until the end.

2. My decision is: either only run 2 GPUs in the HAF 932, get a new case so I can run 3 GPUs (HAF -X), or . . . could get a new mobo that smashes the GPUs together, but I kind of like the idea of having a bigger space between card 1 and 2 like I do now.

I hope that makes more sense? :p:D

[John P. Myers]

I understand the limitations of the HAF 932's slots. But! Since the GPU you'll be putting in the last slot doesn't vent out of the back of the case, it doesn't matter if it overhangs into the "ghost" 8th slot. The vent isn't needed, except on the Galaxy which would be in the 1st slot anyway.

I apologize that i forgot to mention this point sooner :)

Edit: just to be clear, i'm not saying you should remove the vent or in any way mangle the slot bracket. Just let it overhang.

[Dandasarge]

OK, wait a sec, it seems there is some miscommunication on my end some how.
1. I like that HAF 932 case, I was using it with 2 GPUs, and would still be using it, but I can't fit 3 GPUs in there. This is because the case only has 7 expansion slots in the back, and to run 3 GPUs on my mobo (or any mobo that has 2 slot spaces between GPU1 and GPU2, you MUST have a case that has 8 or more expansion slots in the back.

I wish I had realized that before I bought this case and mobo, etc...but I pieced it all together as I got the money, and didn't realize it all until the end.

2. My decision is: either only run 2 GPUs in the HAF 932, get a new case so I can run 3 GPUs (HAF -X), or . . . could get a new mobo that smashes the GPUs together, but I kind of like the idea of having a bigger space between card 1 and 2 like I do now.

I hope that makes more sense? :p:D

That was a silly thing to do :)

Sell 2 cards and replace it with 1. Economically that would be the cheapest(460's going for $100 bucks = $200 570 at newegg on sale $310 on about 4 models). Mobo would be 2nd cheapish unless you wanted one that was more then 200 bucks. You could just sell one and not have to change anything else.

Or do what JPM said :)

[DrPop]

...But! Since the GPU you'll be putting in the last slot doesn't vent out of the back of the case, it doesn't matter if it overhangs into the "ghost" 8th slot. . . i'm not saying you should remove the vent or in any way mangle the slot bracket. Just let it overhang.

NOW you tell me!!! :D hehe...I must have been misunderstanding the whole crew here because I couldn't see how I was supposed to try running it like this. Well...to think I could have saved all that time of taking the components out and putting them back in, etc. I will have to try that overhang idea and see if it works! :o

[DrPop]

Ah, figure I rather do some horse trading around and see my HAF-932 in action. Very tight fit with 3rd GPU, doing "ghost" 8th slot; right on top of PSU, so I'd rather not for now. I used a GTX 460 and GTX 465 for it tonight. It sure is a nice case; pity to just have it sit there! GPU temps are much cooler with that giant side fan, ya know. ;)

Pics: Click on thumbnail for larger image.

http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/6210/haf932a.th.jpg (http://img852.imageshack.us/i/haf932a.jpg/)
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4950/haf932b.th.jpg (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/haf932b.jpg/)

[Duke of Buckingham]

I could drive that to my house and park it there. It would be very happy at my house.;)

Duke

[John P. Myers]

Ah, figure I rather do some horse trading around and see my HAF-932 in action. Very tight fit with 3rd GPU, doing "ghost" 8th slot; right on top of PSU, so I'd rather not for now. I used a GTX 460 and GTX 465 for it tonight. It sure is a nice case; pity to just have it sit there! GPU temps are much cooler with that giant side fan, ya know. ;)


Ah i didn't realize you PSU was so close to the bottom slot. Was difficult to tell it would turn out that way from the pictures on coolermaster's site. Just put one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130601) in the last slot and that'll solve all your problems :D

[Mike029]

Ah i didn't realize you PSU was so close to the bottom slot. Was difficult to tell it would turn out that way from the pictures on coolermaster's site. Just put one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130601) in the last slot and that'll solve all your problems :D

Wow!! What a card..:x

[DrPop]

Thanks for the link - wow, very cool, a single slot 580! :D

I think though, what I will do is get a different style mobo for 8 core Bulldozer when it comes out, so I can do 3 GPUs on it in the HAF 932.

Then, I will transfer the current 6 core Phenom II setup to a new case with at least 8 expansion slots in it - maybe HAF-X, and run 3 GPUs in it.
That would give me "capacity" for 6 GPUs plus the Twins...:cool:

How does that sound for a battle plan? I need to start saving like...yesterday! LOL! :D

[Dandasarge]

Yea stop goofing off and build one of these.

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-folding-home-team/486609-gpu-milking-machine.html

[DrPop]

Yea stop goofing off and build one of these.

http://www.overclock.net/overclock-net-folding-home-team/486609-gpu-milking-machine.html

I didn't even know you could DO stuff like that! :-o Yeah, OK...scratch my previous agenda. DrPop rig can stay right where it is or go to Kat...I'm building one of those next! :D :))
Hmmm....the thought did occur to me, though - you could actually do that without melting the table down by building a big manifold and hooking up to water blocks on every GPU...now that there's a thought!

I wonder if they will make any 6 PCI-e slots for Bulldozer? ;) I can just hear Kim now, "What ya need the whole table for this time?" "Oh, nothin', honey!" :D :-"

[Mike029]

I didn't even know you could DO stuff like that! :-o Yeah, OK...scratch my previous agenda. DrPop rig can stay right where it is or go to Kat...I'm building one of those next! :D :))
Hmmm....the thought did occur to me, though - you could actually do that without melting the table down by building a big manifold and hooking up to water blocks on every GPU...now that there's a thought!

I wonder if they will make any 6 PCI-e slots for Bulldozer? ;) I can just hear Kim now, "What ya need the whole table for this time?" "Oh, nothin', honey!" :D :-"

See what you can do with a few well placed PCIE flexible extenders? =))

[Fire$torm]

See what you can do with a few well placed PCIE flexible extenders? =))

:-bd

[Mike029]

:-bd

There you are. The man that turned me on to them. ^:)^

[Dandasarge]

Glad to help more of the team think outside the box

[Dandasarge]

I didn't even know you could DO stuff like that! :-o Yeah, OK...scratch my previous agenda. DrPop rig can stay right where it is or go to Kat...I'm building one of those next! :D :))
Hmmm....the thought did occur to me, though - you could actually do that without melting the table down by building a big manifold and hooking up to water blocks on every GPU...now that there's a thought!

I wonder if they will make any 6 PCI-e slots for Bulldozer? ;) I can just hear Kim now, "What ya need the whole table for this time?" "Oh, nothin', honey!" :D :-"

The most I could find was 5 slots

This is an intel gig sadly but when your running 8 gpu's would it not be an nvidia or amd rig anyways? check out the Big Bang

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130595

[Mike029]

The most I could find was 5 slots

This is an intel gig sadly but when your running 8 gpu's would it not be an nvidia or amd rig anyways? check out the Big Bang

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130595

Nice feedback from our very own JPM. I thought he had one of those. :D Does STM have one?

[John P. Myers]

Nice feedback from our very own JPM. I thought he had one of those. :D Does STM have one?

Yes. This is my motherboard and i love it :D

For AMD, this (http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3567#) is the best ever made. Many AM3 sockets will be compatible with AM3+ by updating the BIOS.


Hmmm....the thought did occur to me, though - you could actually do that without melting the table down by building a big manifold and hooking up to water blocks on every GPU...now that there's a thought!
And here (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_457_458&products_id=30141) is the radiator you'll need too cool all that. 9 140mm fans FTW! :p Sorry, but the transmission oil cooler from a car won't handle all that.