To build or not to build... that is the question.

[STMahlberg]

Well I knew it would happen, I just didn't figure so fast. I knew I should have stayed away from you guys... I've got the damn crunching bug again. While moving I got rid of 7 of my rigs which leaves me with 3; The Annihilatrix and 2 Dell Optiplex GX-280s. So I fire up my main rig to crunch again, mind you, I told myself I would not do this again. Only because of RL issues that now I have to pay for my own power and I probably won't have a job somewhere between Monday and next July.

So my main rig is running and I start reading all of your posts and I can feel it... you know that feeling where you think you can squeeze out just a little more credit?

Plus the fact that I have 4 GPUs sitting on the counter taunting me. So I figure okay, I'll fire up one of my GX-280s so I can run one of my GTX-460s... it couldn't cost that much extra to run right??? I figure, I'll just eat every other day... I'll be fine.

Still there is the other GTX-460 sitting there beckoning to be used. And the 2 HD5830's what am I suppose to do with those? I just can't let them sit there, it wouldn't be right. Now I think I have to get the GX-280 running; it's only $15 a month to run. That's only 3 Starbuck coffees, which I can't afford to drink anyways so what the hell. I'll do it this weekend.

Now I want to build a complete new system... I must be out of my mind. I was thinking of making a twin for The Annihilatrix; I can get another MSI 890FXA-GD70 and AMD Phenom II X6 1100T for only $324.98 (after rebate). And I can save money by not buying another $200 case... I'll just set it on the glass coffee table I have; glass is an insulator, it will get plenty of cooling, and I don't drink coffee anymore.

Yeah, that's it... I'll do that.

PLEASE SOMEBODY STOP ME!!!

[Tomis]

Don't do it you will starve to death before your electricity bill arrive. Go and get a job in whatever field you were working in. Also you might have to save electricity so you took out the cooler and the next day your house will be on fire :0. Instead just stand in one of those job fair line with and umbrella in case you get baked :). Is that good enough for you?

[spingadus]

Come back to the Dark Side...


A bag of rice or potatoes goes a long way. Or top ramen, you can survive at subsistence levels for years. And who needs heat? That's what a jacket is for.

[Beerdrinker]

Do what you can with what you have.

1. You will never get enough $ for the old Dell´s to fund a new build.
2. always RL first. You can´t eat your pc´s - this is afterall just a hobby.
3. You are already producing more than 99% on the team.
4. The team are better of with you producing and participating - rather than you going bankrupt..

[DrPop]

hahaha...oh man, I feel the same way you do, STM. I'd love to see my RAC go sky high again...but not unless it's sustainable. :o

PS - I'm glad to have you back, even if you just stick with your 1 big hog. You can always sell the GPUs to team members and get the RAC back that way for the team...just a thought. ;) Or, could sell them and save the cash in a pile to use for funding electric for your big rig! :D

[Fire$torm]

PLEASE SOMEBODY STOP ME!!!

Sorry, but why would we WANT to do that??? :)) =)) o:-)

[c303a]

You should have posted this thread in the one that is headed "You know you are a cruncher when...":):):)

So you sit in the heat and swelter in summer and rely on the GPU cards for heat in the winter and of course you don't eat. Just as long as you pay your utility bill your RAC will stay up and you will be at peace with yourself. YEP, looks like we : have a very dedicated cruncher. Congratulations, you have passed all the tests. :D:D:D

[STMahlberg]

You should have posted this thread in the one that is headed "You know you are a cruncher when...":):):)

So you sit in the heat and swelter in summer and rely on the GPU cards for heat in the winter and of course you don't eat. Just as long as you pay your utility bill your RAC will stay up and you will be at peace with yourself. YEP, looks like we : have a very dedicated cruncher. Congratulations, you have passed all the tests. :D:D:D

LOL Thank you. :)

[STMahlberg]

First, I'm going to bore you to death in my first paragraph then I will ask my questions in the second. Although I do try to inject a little humor into my employment and financial situation, it's the only way I can maintain what little is left of my sanity, the circumstances are real. I moved to save money because of possible layoffs; I managed to lower my rent but it ended up being a wash because I now pay utilities. I did save $300 a month in fuel costs since I'm now only 1/2 mile from work instead of 22 miles. I am reasonably assured that I will have a job till the end of June; as long as there are no additional cuts, I should be able to skate through another 18 months from that point in which I can retire with 30 years. If I don't make it, I have a contingency plan which is a move to Dallas where my Mom lives who is actually excited at the prospect of me moving in... she has a large 3 bedroom home there and lives alone. I'm not sure which has more dignity, being 49 and having to move back in with my Mom... or shooting myself. :-?? That being said, I also have some extra cash on hand which is why I am considering building another system.

Onto the not so boring stuff. :)

I am still extremely pleased with my last build which was The Annihilatrix. Below is the configuration. The only thing that I would do different is the PSU; it is massively over-sized. I didn't know this until I was done building it and hooked it up to a data logger... it only uses 660 watts.

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3226/p1260962.jpg

The final damages...

Case - COOLER MASTER HAF X $199.99
PSU - Ultra X4 1200-Watt $269.99
RAM - CORSAIR XMS3 8GB $99.99
MOBO - MSI 890FXA-GD70 $199.99
CPU - AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Thuban $269.99
CPU Cooler - Corsair Hydro Series H70 $99.99
GPU (3) - SAPPHIRE Radeon HD 5870 $849.97
HDD - Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB $89.99
DVD Drive - Lite-On $21.99
Fan 200mm (2) - COOLER MASTER Megaflow 200 $39.98
OS - Windows 7 Home $189.99

Sales Tax $3.24
Shipping & Handling $5.80
Subtotal: $2,322.82

Promotions: $30.00
Rebates: $30.00
Discounts: $15.00
Total Discounts: $75.00

Total: $2,247.82

I am considering building another one using the same motherboard and CPU; currently the combination is on sale right now at NewEgg for $324. Here is was I am looking at currently.

MSI 890FXA-GD70 & AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.693501)

CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145315)

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769)

LITE-ON DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289)

I already have a spare Rosewill 850 PSU, and 2 ATI HD 5830's.

For the time being, I'm not going to buy a case; I want another HAF X but I don't want to spend $189 for one right now. I also plan on going with air-cooling for the CPU and I'll add on the liquid cooling later... maybe... depends on the temps.

The above parts will cost me ~$458. Is there any reason you can see not to buy these parts or perhaps a substitution in parts? Keep in mind, I am pretty set on having another 6-core system unless something else makes more sense.

[Mike029]

A great read as always Steve. Suspense, Humor tragedy, etc :) That AMD cpu is power hungry. Adding another 3 gpu's build is going to add another $100.00 to your bill. Another Idea would be to see if you could sell the extra GPU's you have on the side together with one or two of the GPU's in the Annihilatrix and get a GXT 590 or 2 GTX 570 ($700.00) Put them in the Annihilatrix.

I'm getting over 700k in Dirt with my 570. Other teammates with the 590 are probably doing close to a million per day with that card. This way you get the credit boost you want 8-} without the extra box burning up you latte money. ;) Plus those pesky extra cards won't be lying around to taunt you anymore. =))

Just an idea my friend and great to have you back. Now we need to keep you here. *salutes*

[YoDude9999]

Sweet looking rig. Wish I could get mine to look so pretty inside LOL.

[STMahlberg]

A great read as always Steve. Suspense, Humor tragedy, etc :) That AMD cpu is power hungry. Adding another 3 gpu's build is going to add another $100.00 to your bill. Another Idea would be to see if you could sell the extra GPU's you have on the side together with one or two of the GPU's in the Annihilatrix and get a GXT 590 or 2 GTX 570 ($700.00) Put them in the Annihilatrix.

I'm getting over 700k in Dirt with my 570. Other teammates with the 590 are probably doing close to a million per day with that card. This way you get the credit boost you want 8-} without the extra box burning up you latte money. ;) Plus those pesky extra cards won't be lying around to taunt you anymore. =))

Just an idea my friend and great to have you back. Now we need to keep you here. *salutes*

That is a good idea but I was hoping to add core power as well. I was reading about the i7 2600K... It's nice but the chip alone is almost as much as the combo I want to buy.

I hate this... too many decisions. I probably need to rethink this and put the money into some Studio Lighting instead. :-?

[spingadus]

You could try the AMD route and go for the Phenom x6. It's only about $160 with 6 cores. I'm not running any, but I see a lot that do.

[STMahlberg]

You could try the AMD route and go for the Phenom x6. It's only about $160 with 6 cores. I'm not running any, but I see a lot that do.

That's what my main rig has... I was thinking about building another one. I had posted what I was looking at further down in the posts.

[DrPop]

STM - I have the AMD 1100T as well. It's a power hog if you O/C it a lot. :D But, it can be pretty fast for the $. There is no doubting the Sandy Bridge is better performance per watt...but it's a chunk of change up front. If you do go the AMD route, I would consider a mobo that you can drop the new 8 core bulldozer in when it comes out. You want an AM3+ socket mobo, or an AM3 mobo with a BIOS upgrade like the Gigabytes have. A good low cost example is the ASRock 970 EXTREME4 AM3+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157262)for just over $100. Mate that with an X6 CPU of your choice and a nice speedy machine for low cost that could take 3 of your GPUs. :D

[STMahlberg]

STM - I have the AMD 1100T as well. It's a power hog if you O/C it a lot. :D But, it can be pretty fast for the $. There is no doubting the Sandy Bridge is better performance per watt...but it's a chunk of change up front. If you do go the AMD route, I would consider a mobo that you can drop the new 8 core bulldozer in when it comes out. You want an AM3+ socket mobo, or an AM3 mobo with a BIOS upgrade like the Gigabytes have. A good low cost example is the ASRock 970 EXTREME4 AM3+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157262)for just over $100. Mate that with an X6 CPU of your choice and a nice speedy machine for low cost that could take 3 of your GPUs. :D

I looked at the AMD's Bulldozer and see it's suppose to be released September 19th... 8 Cores, now that's what I'm talking about. Sweet... but of course the Motherboard that I want isn't AM3+. :( And with 8 cores, she's going to have to be my new main rig, which must have the best. So now I'm wondering if I should sit and wait it out.

As I write this, I am reinstalling the OS on my other Dell GX-280. Once I have that up and running I'll figure out what the increase in my power bill; I estimate that the additional cost of all 3 rigs will be in the $80 a month range going on old data logging information. I'll take a couple 24 hour meter reading to make a more accurate estimate.

Now I really don't know what to do... Build another X6 rig to get my last 2 unused GPUs running which I could have up by the end of the week... Then build the Bulldozer as a new main rig in September. It seems that I keep running into the same problem... more GPUs than computers to run them. Selling them is not an option. Three rigs seems to be the way to go... I won't need to heat the apartment with them in the winter and the power bill won't be a big deal; it's the 5 months of Summer we have here that is the killer.

aCK!!! Information Overload!!! ~X(

I'm going to go bang my head on the wall now.

[DrPop]

Actually, I agree with you that 3 rigs is about right. I have 2 now, and my Bro. has 1 that he runs BOINC on for my ID, but right now only 2 of the three are fully functional. That is why my RAC is so low today. If you want to go AMD route, nothing wrong with getting an AM3+ mobo now, and then upgrading to a Bulldozer CPU later. I wish my mobos would allow me the upgrade, but alas, it appears I will be buying new mobos down the road... which mobo do you want now? Maybe we can find you an AM3+ mobo that is similar in spec and price, and then you can just sell the x6 CPU later when you get a bulldozer, or move it to another rig that has a smaller CPU at that point. Just some thoughts...

[Aux10]

OS - Windows 7 Home $189.99


Getting the retail version is a no no. You should have gotten the OEM version and paid half the price!

[Fire$torm]

FWIW: Cooler Master HAF-X RC-942-KKN1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225) - $169.99 w/Free Shipping (Before $10.00 MIR)

Most Intel Enthusiast & Mid-range CPU prices will not come down until Bulldozer hits the streets so AMD is the better value for performance per dollar. But you need to keep in mind that MB manufactures will start cutting back on older products which will raise the price for available stock. So the best time to buy is probably right now while there is still a certain level of uncertainty surrounding Bulldozer's availability and performance potential.

[STMahlberg]

Actually, I agree with you that 3 rigs is about right. I have 2 now, and my Bro. has 1 that he runs BOINC on for my ID, but right now only 2 of the three are fully functional. That is why my RAC is so low today. If you want to go AMD route, nothing wrong with getting an AM3+ mobo now, and then upgrading to a Bulldozer CPU later. I wish my mobos would allow me the upgrade, but alas, it appears I will be buying new mobos down the road... which mobo do you want now? Maybe we can find you an AM3+ mobo that is similar in spec and price, and then you can just sell the x6 CPU later when you get a bulldozer, or move it to another rig that has a smaller CPU at that point. Just some thoughts...

Here is was I originally posted.

I am considering building another one using the same motherboard and CPU; currently the combination is on sale right now at NewEgg for $324. Here is was I am looking at currently.

MSI 890FXA-GD70 & AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.693501)

CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145315)

Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKX 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136769)

LITE-ON DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289)

I already have a spare Rosewill 850 PSU, and 2 ATI HD 5830's.

For the time being, I'm not going to buy a case; I want another HAF X but I don't want to spend $189 for one right now. I also plan on going with air-cooling for the CPU and I'll add on the liquid cooling later... maybe... depends on the temps.

The above parts will cost me ~$458. Is there any reason you can see not to buy these parts or perhaps a substitution in parts? Keep in mind, I am pretty set on having another 6-core system unless something else makes more sense.



Getting the retail version is a no no. You should have gotten the OEM version and paid half the price!

According to Microsoft, if you install that software on your own PC, you don’t have a “genuine” copy of Windows. Basically you have just broken the law if you are doing this; also, you cannot upgrade the system using the upgrade software.


FWIW: Cooler Master HAF-X RC-942-KKN1 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119225) - $169.99 w/Free Shipping (Before $10.00 MIR)

Most Intel Enthusiast & Mid-range CPU prices will not come down until Bulldozer hits the streets so AMD is the better value for performance per dollar. But you need to keep in mind that MB manufactures will start cutting back on older products which will raise the price for available stock. So the best time to buy is probably right now while there is still a certain level of uncertainty surrounding Bulldozer's availability and performance potential.

I am leaning towards building the above system but I need to see what my power bill will be running the 3 rigs I have now. I should have that information in the next couple of days.

Wow! That's a great price on that case.

[Aux10]

According to Microsoft, if you install that software on your own PC, you don’t have a “genuine” copy of Windows. Basically you have just broken the law if you are doing this; also, you cannot upgrade the system using the upgrade software.


Even if it's a custom build? As far as upgrades go it is my understanding that the OEM is bound to the Mobo but you are free to upgrade everything else. From the feed back on new egg it appears that you can change the Mobo but you must call Microsoft first to have the OS unbound. If it really is illegal then the name of their product is misleading.

[STMahlberg]

Even if it's a custom build? As far as upgrades go it is my understanding that the OEM is bound to the Mobo but you are free to upgrade everything else. From the feed back on new egg it appears that you can change the Mobo but you must call Microsoft first to have the OS unbound. If it really is illegal then the name of their product is misleading.

Here is the link that has the licensing information. http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/index.aspx

Here is a couple sections of the licensing saying you may not use an OEM version.


2. Authorized Distribution and Acceptance. To distribute the Software or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder
and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party. You accept this license when you open this Pack. If you choose not
to accept this license, promptly return the unopened Pack to your distributor. You may only distribute unopened Packs within your
territory. For the territory in which you may distribute, see www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/territory. Individual Software or
Hardware units may not be returned after the Pack is opened.

4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run, copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, Hardware
or OPK, except to the extent expressly permitted by this license or by applicable law notwithstanding this prohibition. All rights not
expressly granted are reserved.

[Fire$torm]

OK STM, your point is taken. So in order to comply with M$ terms of use send me the money for the OEM. Then I will buy it and contract you to build a system for you. And your fee for this service will be one OEM license.

That should about cover it........

[c303a]

To distribute the Software or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder
and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software
pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party.

The part that you can look at is the word assembler. That is you. I have built a lot of boxes and have installed OEM in all of them. It is legal and even a reputable software retailer will sell it to you as long as you buy "qualifiying hardware. (Motherboard, or hard drive, or cpu etc.)

[STMahlberg]

OK STM, your point is taken. So in order to comply with M$ terms of use send me the money for the OEM. Then I will buy it and contract you to build a system for you. And your fee for this service will be one OEM license.

That should about cover it........

That should do it. :)

[STMahlberg]

The part that you can look at is the word assembler. That is you. I have built a lot of boxes and have installed OEM in all of them. It is legal and even a reputable software retailer will sell it to you as long as you buy "qualifiying hardware. (Motherboard, or hard drive, or cpu etc.)

Assembler would be true; however, that is not the end of the statement... you have to sell this to a third-party.



"To distribute the Software or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party."


I also refer you back to item 4 of the licensing agreement.



"4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run, copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, Hardware
or OPK, except to the extent expressly permitted by this license or by applicable law notwithstanding this prohibition. All rights not
expressly granted are reserved."


"It is legal and even a reputable software retailer will sell it to you as long as you buy "qualifiying hardware". (Motherboard, or hard drive, or cpu etc.)"

True, that is because they have complied with item 5c, which makes you the third party.



"5. Distribution.

a. Software Preinstallation.
i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
distribution. If the Software includes more than one language version, you must install only one language version.
ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the Pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. See www.
microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/OPK for additional information about the OPK. You may not distribute the OPK to the end user.
iii. See http://oem.microsoft.com/starter for additional hardware requirements when pre-installing Microsoft Windows Starter
Editions.
iv. This preinstallation requirement does not apply to server Software. Instead, server Software may be distributed inside the
Customer System package.

b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to the end user license terms (“License Terms”) that
accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.

c. Hardware. You must distribute each Hardware unit with either a Customer System, or another non-Microsoft computer hardware
component. If you distribute a Hardware unit with a Customer System, you must preinstall any associated Software drivers
and programs provided to you in the Pack. Before you distribute the Hardware, you must test it to ensure that the Hardware
functions properly with the Customer System. Microsoft makes no warranty or representation regarding the Hardware’s
compliance with any federal, state or local laws or regulations relating to computing devices or products sold to the public.

d. Alternate versions. The Pack may include more than one platform version of the Software such as 32-bit or 64-bit. You may only
preinstall one version but must distribute both versions to the end user.

e. Processor versions. For Server products, you may not preinstall or distribute a processor version of the Software on a Customer
System that includes more processors than the highest number of processors listed on the Pack.

f. You must distribute the complete unit of Software, including the COA."

[Fire$torm]

That should do it. :)

Good. :D Let me know when you are ready.

If you are not dead set on that Lite-On DVD burner then take a look at the Sony Optiarc AD-7260S-0B. Its $19.99 with free shipping.
It also can be had as a combo deal (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCombos.aspx?Item=N82E16827118039&SubCategory=5&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1) (Listed third from bottom) with a Seagate Barracuda ST3500413AS 500GB HDD for a total of $53.48 plus $3.99 shipping (shipping fee based on my address. Yours may vary.)

The total for your original selection, WD + Lite-On, is 61.97 plus $6.77 shipping.

[c303a]

Assembler would be true; however, that is not the end of the statement... you have to sell this to a third-party.



"To distribute the Software or Hardware in this Pack, you must be a System Builder and accept this license. “System Builder” means an original equipment manufacturer, an assembler, a refurbisher, or a software pre-installer that sells the Customer System(s) to a third party."


I also refer you back to item 4 of the licensing agreement.



"4. Limited License. If you comply with the terms of this license, Microsoft grants you a limited license to distribute the Software or
Hardware. Except as granted in this license, you may not use, run, copy, modify, display, distribute, repackage or reassemble the
Software, Hardware, OPK or any part of them. You may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the Software, Hardware
or OPK, except to the extent expressly permitted by this license or by applicable law notwithstanding this prohibition. All rights not
expressly granted are reserved."


"It is legal and even a reputable software retailer will sell it to you as long as you buy "qualifiying hardware". (Motherboard, or hard drive, or cpu etc.)"

True, that is because they have complied with item 5c, which makes you the third party.



"5. Distribution.

a. Software Preinstallation.
i. For each unit of Software in the Pack, you must pre-install one copy of the Software on a Customer System prior to
distribution. If the Software includes more than one language version, you must install only one language version.
ii. For such pre-installation, you must use the OPK provided in the Pack or otherwise made available by us. You may use the
information, tools and materials contained in the OPK solely to preinstall the Software in accordance with the OPK. See www.
microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/OPK for additional information about the OPK. You may not distribute the OPK to the end user.
iii. See http://oem.microsoft.com/starter for additional hardware requirements when pre-installing Microsoft Windows Starter
Editions.
iv. This preinstallation requirement does not apply to server Software. Instead, server Software may be distributed inside the
Customer System package.

b. End User License Terms. You must distribute the Software pursuant to the end user license terms (“License Terms”) that
accompany it. Under the License Terms, you are the licensor.

c. Hardware. You must distribute each Hardware unit with either a Customer System, or another non-Microsoft computer hardware
component. If you distribute a Hardware unit with a Customer System, you must preinstall any associated Software drivers
and programs provided to you in the Pack. Before you distribute the Hardware, you must test it to ensure that the Hardware
functions properly with the Customer System. Microsoft makes no warranty or representation regarding the Hardware’s
compliance with any federal, state or local laws or regulations relating to computing devices or products sold to the public.

d. Alternate versions. The Pack may include more than one platform version of the Software such as 32-bit or 64-bit. You may only
preinstall one version but must distribute both versions to the end user.

e. Processor versions. For Server products, you may not preinstall or distribute a processor version of the Software on a Customer
System that includes more processors than the highest number of processors listed on the Pack.

f. You must distribute the complete unit of Software, including the COA."

Then I guess I have purchased many copies of "illegal" software from several sources and installed them on computers I built for other people as well as the 3 boxes that I currently have in my house. I have also upgraded the Win XP OEM copies to Win 7 without having to call M$ or jumping through any hoops. Just save yourself the money, buy the OEM (original equipment manufacturer, which you would be) and use it. M$ has it's money and the main thing is that with OEM you get no support from them. If you buy the retail box you are getting all the fancy packaging plus their support, for what that is worth.

[DrPop]

Dude, STM, I applaud your efforts at being above board, but PLEASE don't pay the extra for a retail pack of Win7. I agree with you, their licensing has us all screwed, but there is a reason Newegg has all those OEM copies for sale! :D heh ...
I just can't feel good about you giving a giant corporation more $$$ for a box...the DVD is exactly the same one from the same machine inside!
There are just so many better things to upgrade on the rig than a retail copy...I just have to say it, sorry. :)

[DrPop]

I like everything except the mobo right now. We don't know how Bulldozer will perform yet, but if it's good -and I know you - you're going to want one just like me! :D

Is there not an AM3+ mobo that you like just as good with at least 3 PCI-e slots? Three GPUs is probably pushing it anyway...another thing to look at is all the Gigabyte mobos, because I think JPM said that they will all be bios upgraded to handle the 8 core dozer.

Just trying to be helpful. ;)

[STMahlberg]

Then I guess I have purchased many copies of "illegal" software from several sources and installed them on computers I built for other people as well as the 3 boxes that I currently have in my house. I have also upgraded the Win XP OEM copies to Win 7 without having to call M$ or jumping through any hoops. Just save yourself the money, buy the OEM (original equipment manufacturer, which you would be) and use it. M$ has it's money and the main thing is that with OEM you get no support from them. If you buy the retail box you are getting all the fancy packaging plus their support, for what that is worth.

Edit: Just saw something I didn't catch before... The computers you build for others is not a licensing violation; the 3 you have are unless you bought them with a piece of qualifying hardware. If you purchase just the OEM software without any qualifying hardware and install it on your own computer, that is a violation according to Microsoft.

Please don't mistake my posts as judgement of any kind, they are not. I only posted what I had read and my interpretation of the licensing. The reason that I hadn't bought the OEM in the past had to do with what was said about the upgrading which I have never tried. Personally I have never liked the upgrade disks that they sell... I hate having to use 2 different disks to install 1 operating system.


Dude, STM, I applaud your efforts at being above board, but PLEASE don't pay the extra for a retail pack of Win7. I agree with you, their licensing has us all screwed, but there is a reason Newegg has all those OEM copies for sale! :D heh ...
I just can't feel good about you giving a giant corporation more $$$ for a box...the DVD is exactly the same one from the same machine inside!
There are just so many better things to upgrade on the rig than a retail copy...I just have to say it, sorry. :)

I will make sure in the future that I purchase hardware that comes with the OEM version which solves any issue I have personally.


I like everything except the mobo right now. We don't know how Bulldozer will perform yet, but if it's good -and I know you - you're going to want one just like me! :D

Is there not an AM3+ mobo that you like just as good with at least 3 PCI-e slots? Three GPUs is probably pushing it anyway...another thing to look at is all the Gigabyte mobos, because I think JPM said that they will all be bios upgraded to handle the 8 core dozer.

Just trying to be helpful. ;)

As far as the mobo, I wasn't actually going to upgrade the system when Bulldozer comes out. I was going to build another new system and buy one of those expensive techno-whiz-bang boards that they have out. Building another AMD Thurban now and then Bulldozer later would give me the 3 systems that I would like to have and a place to install all of the GPUs that I have laying around. :)

[c303a]

STM just keep building and crunching. But buy the hardware and save money on the software. It all works the same. :D:D:D:D

[STMahlberg]

STM just keep building and crunching. But buy the hardware and save money on the software. It all works the same. :D:D:D:D

Agreed. :)

[STMahlberg]

I just got done reading my power meter this morning and WOW! X_X I took the reading at the same time as I did yesterday and I have used 71 kW in 24 hours.

Last month my daily usage was 40 kW. For the most part, weather here is fairly constant this time of year. Running the 3 rigs that I have will consume 31 kW per day; at 0.116 cents per kW (I just found out they raised the power rates again) it will cost me an extra $107.88 a month based on a 30 day billing period.

Now I have some real soul searching to do...

[Beerdrinker]

Install energy saving ligthbulbs. Do it in places where you just need indirect ligth..I did that last year - really makes a difference..

[STMahlberg]

Install energy saving ligthbulbs. Do it in places where you just need indirect ligth..I did that last year - really makes a difference..

I've been a big fluorescent lights fan for 2 decades; it's the first thing I do when I move into a new place.

[Beerdrinker]

I've been a big fluorescent lights fan for 2 decades; it's the first thing I do when I move into a new place.

Me too. But you never know...:)

[STMahlberg]

I have a new crazy plan... http://www.stmahlberg.com/images/smiley-think004.gif I know what you're saying, "Oh God not again!"

I was looking at this Motherboard GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 AM3+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508). Do you think that I can run 2 ATI HD 5830's and 2 nVidia GTX-460's all together?

That would solve my extra GPUs problem, consolidate to a single machine, eliminate the 2 Dell clunkers, and not increase my power bill.

[Beerdrinker]

GO FOR IT!!!

[Fire$torm]

Good idea there. Just keep in mind a side panel mounted fan will be a must. The Haf X takes a 200mm fan (like one of these (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=40000573%20600035599%20600035655%20600035661&IsNodeId=1&Description=200%20mm%20fan&name=15-20%20dBA&Order=BESTMATCH)) there so you should be good.

[STMahlberg]

So here is what I am looking at now.

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 AM3+
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA
Seagate Barracuda ST3500413AS 500GB

[STMahlberg]

I give up... this is just not going to work. I'd have to spend another $369 for a PSU to power the thing. ~X(

[Tomis]

I give up... this is just not going to work. I'd have to spend another $369 for a PSU to power the thing. ~X(

How much watt do you need like 1000 or something?

[STMahlberg]

How much watt do you need like 1000 or something?

The issue is that I need 8 6-pin PCIe connectors. The 1200 watt PSU that I have on my main rig can only support 6; so trying to run 4 GPUs on a single board isn't going to work with any of the 3 PSUs that I have.

The other issue was I didn't mind spending the $450 on the original configuration and I lost the opportunity to pick up the Mobo/CPU combo I wanted since the price went up. The new configuration would cost me $550 but I really didn't want to spend that much and I didn't factor in the PSU that I would need which now basically kills this project.

The other issue is the fact that it's costing me $100+ a month to run the 3 rigs I have; frankly, I have other projects in the works which would be a better use of money as well as generate income.

[Fire$torm]

Steve, do you already have a spare PSU? Say 400W+?

Although this is not for the faint of heart, there is a technique for running two PSUs in tandem. That was the mod I used on Blackie for about six months or so. If you are interested I dig up the details.

[STMahlberg]

Steve, do you already have a spare PSU? Say 400W+?

Although this is not for the faint of heart, there is a technique for running two PSUs in tandem. That was the mod I used on Blackie for about six months or so. If you are interested I dig up the details.

Yes. I have a 800w CoolerMax and a 700w Thermaltake; each is running my 2 Dells that contain my GTX460's.

I assume you are talking about one of these? Dual PSU Adapter (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5637/cpa-167/Lian_Li_Dual_Power_Supply_Adapter_Cable.html)

[DrPop]

STM, my man...you are trying to throw way too much money at this project! :D
I would use your 800W that you already have for the main PSU. That will run 2 GPUs at least. Then, get one of these for each additional GPU beyond the first 2. So, for example, if you would like to run 4 GPUs in the rig, then get 2 of these. That's only $50 over the price of the mobo and CPU.
Or, the other way is to do like F$ suggests and loop 2 big PSUs together. My question is why 4 in the one rig, though?

Are there any parts you can scavange from the 2 single core rigs - like HDDs or optical drives? They don't have to be high end, they just have to work. :) Then, when it's all said and done, I would sell whatever parts from those single core rigs are worth selling (like the 750W PSU, etc)...you don't need them around and may as well get some pocket change back...

...but, as you say - photography equipment you can actually make money with, so...I understand those kind of thoughts! Not to mention it's a blast. ;)

[Fire$torm]

STM, my man...you are trying to throw way too much money at this project! :D
I would use your 800W that you already have for the main PSU. That will run 2 GPUs at least. Then, get one of these for each additional GPU beyond the first 2. So, for example, if you would like to run 4 GPUs in the rig, then get 2 of these. That's only $50 over the price of the mobo and CPU.
Or, the other way is to do like F$ suggests and loop 2 big PSUs together. My question is why 4 in the one rig, though?

Are there any parts you can scavange from the 2 single core rigs - like HDDs or optical drives? They don't have to be high end, they just have to work. :) Then, when it's all said and done, I would sell whatever parts from those single core rigs are worth selling (like the 750W PSU, etc)...you don't need them around and may as well get some pocket change back...

...but, as you say - photography equipment you can actually make money with, so...I understand those kind of thoughts! Not to mention it's a blast. ;)

Yeah what he said.

I have noticed on eBay that if use a good picture (No problem there) and a good honest description, you can make more money selling Dell parts then you can with complete systems. At least when the systems aren't too old. Dell GX240/280 parts still seem to do wall as Dell sold a ton of 'em. Used CD-ROMs are a no-no on eBay but the higher speed DVD burners can fetch a few bucks. And the cooling fan for the GX280 will sell as that part has a high failure rate. One last thing. If you try to sell the MB(s) sell them with the CPU.


Yes. I have a 800w CoolerMax and a 700w Thermaltake; each is running my 2 Dells that contain my GTX460's.

I assume you are talking about one of these? Dual PSU Adapter (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5637/cpa-167/Lian_Li_Dual_Power_Supply_Adapter_Cable.html)

Yeppers.

[STMahlberg]

STM, my man...you are trying to throw way too much money at this project! :D
I would use your 800W that you already have for the main PSU. That will run 2 GPUs at least. Then, get one of these for each additional GPU beyond the first 2. So, for example, if you would like to run 4 GPUs in the rig, then get 2 of these. That's only $50 over the price of the mobo and CPU.
Or, the other way is to do like F$ suggests and loop 2 big PSUs together. My question is why 4 in the one rig, though?

Are there any parts you can scavange from the 2 single core rigs - like HDDs or optical drives? They don't have to be high end, they just have to work. :) Then, when it's all said and done, I would sell whatever parts from those single core rigs are worth selling (like the 750W PSU, etc)...you don't need them around and may as well get some pocket change back...

...but, as you say - photography equipment you can actually make money with, so...I understand those kind of thoughts! Not to mention it's a blast. ;)

I thought I was trying to save some money. :D


So here is what I am looking at now.

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 AM3+ (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508) - $249
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz - $189
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 - $50+
Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA - Combo Deal - $50+
Seagate Barracuda ST3500413AS 500GB

Here were my thought on the above parts. The mobo has 6 slots in this configuration: PCI Express 2.0 x16: 6(x16, x16, x8, x8, x4, x4) So it may be able to handle 4 GPUs which would eliminate the need to build another system, if I can get all of my GPUs to run in 2 rigs. The other thing was this is an AM3+ board so I can upgrade to Bulldozer when it comes out.

Using the AMD 1100, I get the 6 cores for now and it can be used as a spare for my other rig if it burns out or I could sell it.

I still would need to buy an optical drive but may not have to buy a hard drive. Explanation further down.


The issue is that I need 8 6-pin PCIe connectors. The 1200 watt PSU that I have on my main rig can only support 6; so trying to run 4 GPUs on a single board isn't going to work with any of the 3 PSUs that I have.

The other issue was I didn't mind spending the $450 on the original configuration and I lost the opportunity to pick up the Mobo/CPU combo I wanted since the price went up. The new configuration would cost me $550 but I really didn't want to spend that much and I didn't factor in the PSU that I would need which now basically kills this project.

The other issue is the fact that it's costing me $100+ a month to run the 3 rigs I have; frankly, I have other projects in the works which would be a better use of money as well as generate income.


Steve, do you already have a spare PSU? Say 400W+?

Although this is not for the faint of heart, there is a technique for running two PSUs in tandem. That was the mod I used on Blackie for about six months or so. If you are interested I dig up the details.


Yes. I have a 800w CoolerMax and a 700w Thermaltake; each is running my 2 Dells that contain my GTX460's.

I assume you are talking about one of these? Dual PSU Adapter (http://www.frozencpu.com/products/5637/cpa-167/Lian_Li_Dual_Power_Supply_Adapter_Cable.html)

It didn't hit me till later that I didn't take into account the PSU and the number of 6pin PCIe connectors that I would need. Fire$torm has the fix to tandem two of my PSUs together. I have another PSU as well; a Rosewill 850 which has 4 6pin PCIe on it. Both the CoolerMax 800 and the Thermaltake 700 only have 2 dedicated 6pin PCIe connectors but I have a couple 4pin power to 6pin PCIe connectors laying around somewhere; this would solve the additional connections on either of the last PSUs mentioned.


Yeah what he said.

I have noticed on eBay that if use a good picture (No problem there) and a good honest description, you can make more money selling Dell parts then you can with complete systems. At least when the systems aren't too old. Dell GX240/280 parts still seem to do wall as Dell sold a ton of 'em. Used CD-ROMs are a no-no on eBay but the higher speed DVD burners can fetch a few bucks. And the cooling fan for the GX280 will sell as that part has a high failure rate. One last thing. If you try to sell the MB(s) sell them with the CPU.

Yeppers.

Now the situation with the Dell GX-280's... They belong to work which I signed out for them a few years ago; eventually they may want them back but probably not. Since then, I have had to replace both PSUs and 1 hard drive(I think) which I paid for the parts myself. So I may not have to buy a HDD for this new rig. If I build this new rig, I will pull all of my parts from the Dells and return them to work where they will still in a storage room and collect dust until someone decides to BER(beyond economical repair) them and throw them away.

So I can't really sell the parts.

The price for this new rig would be ~$500. Now for the big issue that is really preventing me from doing all of this... the cost of the power. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it costs be $107 a month to power what I have running now. This new rig would push that higher even though I would be eliminating my other 2 rigs. Spending $1200+ a year on power for something that only gives me imaginary internet credits is a lot of money. I like doing the whole crunching thing but like I said, I have other projects that could really us that money.

Thus my quandary...

[Fire$torm]

Thus my quandary...

Understood. So maybe put the system on the back burner, invest available monies into project/New Career with a return on investment potential and go have some fun. :D

[STMahlberg]

Understood. So maybe put the system on the back burner, invest available monies into project/New Career with a return on investment potential and go have some fun. :D

Yeah, that is what I am going to do. I'll be pulling the plug on 2 of my rigs in the next few days; I will run my main rig but it will only be on a limited basis. I'll be selling all of my spare parts to help fund my endeavor. I should have a list put together in a couple of days of what I have and then post them on the board. I'm not sure what I can get for them; I was kind of thinking highest bidder at the moment.

[DrPop]

Honestly, that is what I would do too, in your shoes. Keep your big rig, and just be happy with what it can crunch. I know it can pack a wallop! :D
Then sell all your other parts you can, and put the funds into your other hobby which can actually make you money. Not to mention bring close proximity with fabulous looking babes! :-$:P

[John P. Myers]

The price for this new rig would be ~$500. Now for the big issue that is really preventing me from doing all of this... the cost of the power. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it costs be $107 a month to power what I have running now. This new rig would push that higher even though I would be eliminating my other 2 rigs. Spending $1200+ a year on power for something that only gives me imaginary internet credits is a lot of money. I like doing the whole crunching thing but like I said, I have other projects that could really us that money.

Thus my quandary...
Actually!

ok 3 rigs costing you $107/month right now. If you put all your GPUs into a single rig, retired the other 2 rigs, you'd actually be paying less than that. A noticeable amount less. By using 1 rig, you eliminate having to power 2 southbridges, 2 northbridges, 2 hard drives, 2 optical drives, 2 sets of RAM, however many fans are in the 2 rigs, and, the biggest chunk of them all, it's 2 CPUs you no longer have to power. Also, the 1 rig will create less heat, saving additional money on home cooling (though requiring more heat in the winter). I'm betting by combining everything into 1 rig, you save at least 30% per month off that bill. Maybe 40% since you're tossing dells :D

[DrPop]

Actually! . . . Maybe 40% since you're tossing dells :D

LOL! :)) I love that line! :D

[Slicker]

I need to convince "she who holds the checkbook" that it would be more ecconomical to replace an AMD 4000, Q6600, and Q9540 (the latter two with ATI 3870 GPUs) with a new i7 CPU and newer GPU given that our power bill is over $300/month - especially since I quite my second job. Any stats would be appreciated...

[STMahlberg]

Actually!

ok 3 rigs costing you $107/month right now. If you put all your GPUs into a single rig, retired the other 2 rigs, you'd actually be paying less than that. A noticeable amount less. By using 1 rig, you eliminate having to power 2 southbridges, 2 northbridges, 2 hard drives, 2 optical drives, 2 sets of RAM, however many fans are in the 2 rigs, and, the biggest chunk of them all, it's 2 CPUs you no longer have to power. Also, the 1 rig will create less heat, saving additional money on home cooling (though requiring more heat in the winter). I'm betting by combining everything into 1 rig, you save at least 30% per month off that bill. Maybe 40% since you're tossing dells :D

I'm not sure I would agree with your hypothesis. The current configuration of the Dells are such:

Total for both Dell GX-280s

1300 w (1 - 600 W PSU & 1 - 700 W PSU)
2 - GTX460 GPUs
2 - Cores
2 - N Bridge
2 - S Bridge
2 - Fan
2 - HDD
2 - CDD
4 - 1 GB RAM

The new configuration using the AMD 1100T

1450 w (1 - 850 W PSU & 1 - 600 W PSU)
2 - GT460 GPUs
2 - HD5830 GPUs
6 - Cores
1 - N Bridge
1 - S Bridge
1 - HDD
1 - DVD
2 - 4 GB RAM

I still need to use 2 PSUs to power the 4 GPUs; I'd be doubling the power usage with the GPUs alone. The AMD chip is going to use more power and create more heat than the 2 Dells. My main rig has the AMD 1100T and 3 HD5870s in it; I might as well be running a space heater. Just using a data logger to calculate my main rig usage shows $50 a month cost. I took a 24 hour reading from my power meter running just my main rig and it shows that it would actually cost me $96 a month. The data logger accounts only for actual rig usage. The meter reading accounts for HVAC usage as well; however, I had to 'weather normalize' the data since the first day I took a meter read it was 108° day and the second time it was a 111° day. Although the rig only costs $50 a month to run, it costs another $46 in cooling a month.

Since the original calculation of $107 a month for 3 rigs and most of that is my main rig and considering a new build would use more power and cooling than my main rig, it simply isn't possible to use less power by consolidating.

Edit:

One thing that is not taken into consideration is that these rigs were not all running the same apps. We all know different apps put different demands on the CPUs and GPUs. Also the numbers here would only represent summer months and the HVAC cooling cost is based on the assumption that it remains 111° for a billing period of 29 days. These costs are based on my location and kWh cost. So someone on the east coast might pay more per kWh but I doubt they see many 111° days if any.

With that in mind to compare usage it would probably be better to eliminate dollar cost and make only either kWh or BTU comparisons... but I'm sure I have bored you to death already. :D

[STMahlberg]

I need to convince "she who holds the checkbook" that it would be more economical to replace an AMD 4000, Q6600, and Q9540 (the latter two with ATI 3870 GPUs) with a new i7 CPU and newer GPU given that our power bill is over $300/month - especially since I quite my second job. Any stats would be appreciated...

Since I have never run any of those types, I'm afraid that I would not be much help.

Have you considered bribing the CFO with expensive jewelry or fragrances like rose oil? :D

[DrPop]

I'll give it a shot ;)
AMD 4000+ = 65W
Intel Q6600 = 105W
Intel Q9540 = 95W
Mobo NB + SB = 30W x3 = 90W
ATI HD3870 = 106W x2 = 212W (@496GFLOPs ea. = 4.68Gflops/W)
HDD = 20W x3 = 60W
Optical Drive = 5W x3 = 15W
1 stick RAM = 10W x 6? = 60W
80mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
120mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
TOTAL for 3 rigs: 714W x 1.2 (for Min. inefficiency of PSU) = 857W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 66.5 + 992 = 1058.5 GFLOPs
Your current combined Efficiency: 1.24GFLOPs /Watt

*** *** *** *** ***
Sandy Bridge i7-2600K Sandy Bridge = 95W
mobo NB + SB = 30W
HDD = 20W
Optical Drive = 5W
2 sticks RAM = 20W
80mm fan = 2W
120mm fan = 2W
ATI HD5870 = 188W (@2720GFLOPs = 14.5GFLOPs/W!!!)
TOTAL for new rig: 362W x 1.2 = 434W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 83.3 + 2720 = 2803.3 GFLOPs
Your NEW combined Efficiency: 6.46GFLOPs /Watt

I think that might be enough to convince her - new rig is 5.2 x MORE efficient than running the 3 old rigs put together. In other words, it has 2.6x the processing power, and uses exactly half of the electricity to do it.
Hope that helps! %%-**==

[Fire$torm]

Ahhh hey guys....

I think you are confusing CPU TDP (Thermal Design Power) with electrical power consumption. TDP refers to the max. amount of heat in Watts a CPU is designed to generate. All current CPUs use a lot more electrical power then their TDP rating.

Take a look at this ---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-x4-955,2278-11.html

[DrPop]

In that case, the equation will be even MORE lopsided in favor of the new rig! :D

However, most of those times, like for example in the link you posted, that is the total watts of the rig tested, not watts of the CPU. ;)

[STMahlberg]

I'll give it a shot ;)
AMD 4000+ = 65W
Intel Q6600 = 105W
Intel Q9540 = 95W
Mobo NB + SB = 30W x3 = 90W
ATI HD3870 = 106W x2 = 212W (@496GFLOPs ea. = 4.68Gflops/W)
HDD = 20W x3 = 60W
Optical Drive = 5W x3 = 15W
1 stick RAM = 10W x 6? = 60W
80mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
120mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
TOTAL for 3 rigs: 714W x 1.2 (for Min. inefficiency of PSU) = 857W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 66.5 + 992 = 1058.5 GFLOPs
Your current combined Efficiency: 1.24GFLOPs /Watt

*** *** *** *** ***
Sandy Bridge i7-2600K Sandy Bridge = 95W
mobo NB + SB = 30W
HDD = 20W
Optical Drive = 5W
2 sticks RAM = 20W
80mm fan = 2W
120mm fan = 2W
ATI HD5870 = 188W (@2720GFLOPs = 14.5GFLOPs/W!!!)
TOTAL for new rig: 362W x 1.2 = 434W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 83.3 + 2720 = 2803.3 GFLOPs
Your NEW combined Efficiency: 6.46GFLOPs /Watt

I think that might be enough to convince her - new rig is 5.2 x MORE efficient than running the 3 old rigs put together. In other words, it has 2.6x the processing power, and uses exactly half of the electricity to do it.
Hope that helps! %%-**==


Ahhh hey guys....

I think you are confusing CPU TDP (Thermal Design Power) with electrical power consumption. TDP refers to the max. amount of heat in Watts a CPU is designed to generate. All current CPUs use a lot more electrical power then their TDP rating.

Take a look at this ---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-x4-955,2278-11.html

TDPs, GFLOPs per Watt, efficiency ratings. ROFLMAO =)) How long have you guys been married???

Slicker... I'd go for the Rose Oil. Sure, it's $200 a half once but I think it will go further with your wife than GFLOPS per watt. Just my opinion. ;)

[DrPop]

TDPs, GFLOPs per Watt, efficiency ratings. ROFLMAO =)) How long have you guys been married???

Slicker... I'd go for the Rose Oil. Sure, it's $200 a half once but I think it will go further with your wife than GFLOPS per watt. Just my opinion. ;)

LOL! :)) heh...seriously, though...a lot of women would look at it like: "it'll cut the hobby electric bill in half, AND give my man 2 1/2 times the pleasure & status in his group? I'm up for that." They really do want their man to be happy and having a good, successful life, etc...and if they can DOUBLE that feeling for HALF the money, a woman will do that in a heartbeat! :D

[STMahlberg]

LOL! :)) heh...seriously, though...a lot of women would look at it like: "it'll cut the hobby electric bill in half, AND give my man 2 1/2 times the pleasure & status in his group? I'm up for that." They really do want their man to be happy and having a good, successful life, etc...and if they can DOUBLE that feeling for HALF the money, a woman will do that in a heartbeat! :D

I guess I've been shopping at the wrong store. :)

[DrPop]

I guess I've been shopping at the wrong store. :)

:P well...fair enough. ;) But...I won't exactly say the good lady's designs aren't selfish either. I mean, for example, what do you think she's going to do with that extra $$$ per month off the utility bill? :D Let's just say it aint gonna end up in Slicker's wallet as spendin' cash! :)) hehe

[Fire$torm]

In that case, the equation will be even MORE lopsided in favor of the new rig! :D

However, most of those times, like for example in the link you posted, that is the total watts of the rig tested, not watts of the CPU. ;)

True true. To get a true idea of what the system consumes look at the idle graph. That does include the CPU at idle but most of the other hardware is running pretty much full. The difference between max and idle is almost entirely CPU draw. And that is of most concern when figuring which PSU to get.