View Full Version : Request for help from the Tech wizards
For all the techies - maybe JPM can answer this one? :)
I am on my 3rd reinstall of Windows 7, and already tried two different BIOS flashes (older and newer) and two sets of drivers.
First question, somewhat unrelated: I have this mobo: 890FX Deluxe4 (http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.us.asp?Model=890FX%20Deluxe4) and it has an extra SATA controller to give ports 7 & 8. The Southbridge AMD SB850 gives 6 SATA3 ports, and then the extra Marvell SE9120 gives 2 more SATA3 ports.
I've got a separate OS drive, and a separate Data drive. Now, what I can't figure out is, do I want the two drives on the AMD SB850, or do I want one on each controller? Which would be faster or would it even matter?
On a more serious note, I'm battling a severe glitch somewhere...things "seem" to work good until you try to shutdown or do a warm reboot. Trying to install PaleMoon or Firefox browsers for whatever reason completely froze the rig as well. First off, it will shut down in the sense that it kills the screen and all - but the lights on the case stay on, and you can hear a couple fans still going. The only way to get it out of that state is to manually flip the PSU power switch. Sometimes it will boot up after that, and sometimes not - have to take 2 or 3 manual PSU power switch flipping on and off to get it to boot.
I should mention that I have the 5970 in the top PCI-E slot, and the two GTX 460s in the 2nd and 3rd PCI-E slots. Nothing seems out of the ordinary until after I install the catalyst drivers.
I am about ready to yank the 5970 and put it in Kat's rig where it could be by itself and isolate it down...very frustrating, sorry! :p
This blows goats. I literally stayed up the entire night trying to figure out this problem - not even worth it to try to go to bed now. And guess what? The 5970 is so crazy huge it won't even fit in Kat's case...if that says anything. :p
rgathright
11-30-11, 09:08 AM
You are having stability problems which are usually caused by running a computer outside its normal operating range. :-o
Try this:
1) Turn off BOINC while setting up the system.
2) Use Hardware Monitor (http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html) to ensure that your system is not overheating.
3) If your processor or memory are overclocked, return them to stock levels immediately.
4) I think you are drawing to much power for the PSU, try disconnecting one of the video cards and try again.
Thanks. Yeah, I'm going on about 12 hours now of troubleshooting. Everything is out, BOINC isn't even installed anymore, LOL! ;) I would think it was PSU issues the way it's behaving, but I've got a nice 1KW PSU in there, and I can run a 5870 and two GTX 460s all full bore + the 1100T O/Ced to the hilt, which probably draws 140W by iteself O/Ced like that. :P So...it's got to be something else, because it can't even run this 5970 by itself, with nothing else going on...
I threw the 5870 only (no CUDA cards right now) back in there, reset everything in the BIOS to stock, and reinstalling Win7 and everything just to be sure it's nothing else glitching. Then I will try the 5970 again and see if I get the same errors.
Jed, I'm not sure I have the right answer and if I do it isn't good.
I have 2 computers that will NOT run a 5970. The problem is that the MBs won't support the the required power for a single PCIe slot. Both machines will run 2 5870s (in 2 slots) OC to the max but neither can handle a 5970 even when that is the only card in the machine. The ASUS quad (Q6600 - old machine) will run for a little while and then hangs up. However, my HP I7 920 rig (microATX MB) croaks almost immediately and gives a similar result to what you are describing. I spent many hours last year trying to get them working in those machines but I had no success. Both machines had 1kw supplies so the PSU is not the issue.
Since your AMD MB isn't all that old I would really expect that it can handle the 300W per slot PCIe standard but your problem sounds VERY familar.
coronicus
11-30-11, 11:26 AM
had an issue like this when i overclocked the FB speed which would OC the pcie specs aswell but i know some newer board seperate the clocks but im not sure about your board.. my suggestion is to down clock the video card just to see if it becomes stable... -100mhz should show you wether that is the issue...
rgathright
11-30-11, 11:34 AM
Repeating the statement below, PLEASE DOWNCLOCK YOUR CPU TO STOCK SPEEDS!
-or-
Reset your BIOS to factory defaults.
had an issue like this when i overclocked the FB speed which would OC the pcie specs aswell but i know some newer board seperate the clocks but im not sure about your board.. my suggestion is to down clock the video card just to see if it becomes stable... -100mhz should show you wether that is the issue...
@Bryan - thanks for that info. It could be what is happening here. I will give it one more shot before I decide what else to do.
Do you happen to know a good driver version that is running well with your 5970s (or was at some point) so I can make sure it's not something messing up with a newer driver optimized for the 6000 series?
Thanks for the help. A little disappointing and I am pretty tired now, but it is what it is...I hope SteVe and Mike029 have better luck with theirs!
Fire$torm
11-30-11, 02:24 PM
@Bryan - thanks for that info. It could be what is happening here. I will give it one more shot before I decide what else to do.
Do you happen to know a good driver version that is running well with your 5970s (or was at some point) so I can make sure it's not something messing up with a newer driver optimized for the 6000 series?
Thanks for the help. A little disappointing and I am pretty tired now, but it is what it is...I hope SteVe and Mike029 have better luck with theirs!
Like I posted here (link (http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?2451-Moo-For-The-Win&p=26852&viewfull=1#post26852)) check all the contacts for dirt/oxidation on all your cards, plugs, sockets and memory sticks. Also clean all slots/connectors on the MB and PSU with compressed air.
All CCC drivers 10.x and above support the 5xxx series. Here is the DL page for pre 11.11 CCC drivers ---> http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/previous/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx
You may need to update your MB BIOS ---> http://www.asrock.com/mb/download.us.asp?Model=890FX%20Deluxe4&o=BIOS
Other ASRock drivers for Win7 x64 ---> http://www.asrock.com/mb/download.us.asp?Model=890FX%20Deluxe4&o=Win764
BTW: What medium is the Win7 installer on? Commercially printed DVD, DVD-R or USB stick?
Edit: fixed link (pointed to the wrong page)
Mike029
11-30-11, 04:21 PM
@Bryan - thanks for that info. It could be what is happening here. I will give it one more shot before I decide what else to do.
Do you happen to know a good driver version that is running well with your 5970s (or was at some point) so I can make sure it's not something messing up with a newer driver optimized for the 6000 series?
Thanks for the help. A little disappointing and I am pretty tired now, but it is what it is...I hope SteVe and Mike029 have better luck with theirs!
Sry about the problems Jed. I got mine and I'll be putting it in tonight for the push. I'll let you know how I make out in a few hrs.
Dandasarge
11-30-11, 04:45 PM
Sounds like a power load issue. If you have a muti rail PS try using 2 rails on the 5970. It could be from the board side, more likely then not and there is hacks to fix that not suggesting to do that though. Could be the PSU, what PSU are you using?
John P. Myers
11-30-11, 05:52 PM
Sounds like a power load issue. If you have a muti rail PS try using 2 rails on the 5970. It could be from the board side, more likely then not and there is hacks to fix that not suggesting to do that though. Could be the PSU, what PSU are you using?
Yeah it could very well be that. Not that there's anything wrong with your PSU, just that the amps/rail aren't high enough (which is why i have always strongly recommended single rail PSUs)
Though, i have also experienced a very similar problem when combining ATI and Nvidia in the same box, except i had the issue with a HD 5870 and a 9500 GT and a GTX 460. The ATI drivers ended up being what caused the problem. I spent 2 days trying to figure that mess out lol. Everything from BSODs to not booting, etc., just as you described. The following driver is working for me:
Driver Date: 4/19/2011
Driver Version: 8.850.0.0
Please note the driver version as reported by windows is not the same as the version ATI claims it to be, so go by the date. There was also an older version that i had used but can't recall what it was now. But it is just the standard driver, not the special APP version.
EDIT: Should also mention this happened on a socket 775 mobo
I do appreciate what you guys are saying, but I'm pretty sure it's not the PSU. This thing is a hog - it has 4 12V rails that do 36A each - or used in tandem, it can load up to 82A and 984W of its 1000W max on the 12V alone. Pretty beefy. I've got the plugins split too, so it's got a separate 36A 12V rail to each plugin, and there are no other cards plugged into the mobo. It's got to be either a conflict somewhere, or what Bryan alluded to - maybe this mobo just can't hack the Volts to the card on it's side of things. I would find that a little strange for a higher end chipset mobo - I mean, this is the 890FX, but you never know.
Right now I'm doing some tests in between patients - I've got it torn apart in the back room, and currently on yet another clean install of windows, and it's doing Prim95 stability tests with the old 5870 in right now, plus the Windows graphics assessment. I'm trying all kinds of different driver versions and whatnot to see if I can get it to do any of the fail(s) with the 5870 in there. So far it's coming out ahead.
If I can't make it fail with the 5870, then I will yank that out in a bit and put the 5970 in there and see what happens this time around. I'll post my progress. Cross your fingers for me.
Mike029
11-30-11, 08:20 PM
I'm running two cards, 5970 and a 5870 on an Thermaltake TR2 RX 850 Bronze, single rail PSU without a hitch so your beast PSU should have no issue. I'm using the 11.11 driver as well, again no issue. I'll move it over to my dedicated cruncher tomorrow and see how it holds up there.
Fire$torm
11-30-11, 10:13 PM
I do appreciate what you guys are saying, but I'm pretty sure it's not the PSU. This thing is a hog - it has 4 12V rails that do 36A each - or used in tandem, it can load up to 82A and 984W of its 1000W max on the 12V alone. Pretty beefy. I've got the plugins split too, so it's got a separate 36A 12V rail to each plugin, and there are no other cards plugged into the mobo. It's got to be either a conflict somewhere, or what Bryan alluded to - maybe this mobo just can't hack the Volts to the card on it's side of things. I would find that a little strange for a higher end chipset mobo - I mean, this is the 890FX, but you never know.
Right now I'm doing some tests in between patients - I've got it torn apart in the back room, and currently on yet another clean install of windows, and it's doing Prim95 stability tests with the old 5870 in right now, plus the Windows graphics assessment. I'm trying all kinds of different driver versions and whatnot to see if I can get it to do any of the fail(s) with the 5870 in there. So far it's coming out ahead.
If I can't make it fail with the 5870, then I will yank that out in a bit and put the 5970 in there and see what happens this time around. I'll post my progress. Cross your fingers for me.
Not to diss anyone but the power from the PCIe slot is not the issue. PCIe spec 1.0 and above all limit the power drawn from the PCIe slot to 75W. This spec cannot be fudged in any way. Hence the reason for the PCIe power plug pins multiplying like Tribbles.
There is still a chance it is an issue with the MB, just not with power draw. I would strongly suggest installing that card in a different system. If the card works elsewhere then its your system. If the card doesn't work then its the card.
All that said, the symptoms you described seem to point to faulty hardware somewhere in the system.
Many hours later . . . system works perfect with the 5870. Prim95 stable for hours, with all latest BIOS, drivers, etc.
Remove the 5870 and throw the 5970 in there . . . boots great. Windows finds the card. Display is nice. Install drivers (I tried several at this point), reboot . . . and machine will never get past the "Starting Windows" black screen with the color logo above the words. Hangs there indefinitely, every time.
So, I'm officially done - this thing has wasted so much of my time I have been up for 39 hours straight now. Even I get a little fatigued after that. My only thought left is to try it in Kat's mobo and that would tell me if it's the mobo or the card. But even if it's my mobo and not the card, I don't know what good it's going to do me ... I just got the bigger case so I could use all 3 slots for GPUs, and this 5970 won't even fit in Kat's case, so even if it works on her mobo, I still am not sure what the best outcome is. :p
YoDude9999
12-01-11, 12:06 AM
I was having a serious problem with Rodan a few months ago. The system "seemed" ok until I started watching movies on Netflix and often, the system would just "freeze" . No blue screen, nothing, just freeze. I tolerated this behavior for some time, until it got so bad I just couldn't stand it any more. The system seemed to degrade more and more as time went on. I also noticed that during this period, it took FOREVER for the system to come up after a reboot. Even during the BIOS signon it was taking a very long time to do anything even before it got to the boot menu where it says, "Windows was not shut down properly", pick something to continue...hahaha. Once picked it still took a very long time to boot into windows and then there was nothing that said it would run for a day without freezing again. I re-installed windows and was still having problems with the system.
I finally decided it was a hardware problem of some sort and I suppose I maybe got lucky in fixing the problem. What I did was this; took out all the memory, powered up the system. I got the beep, beep, beep that one should expect when there's no memory installed in the system. I powered it down, installed one stick, powered it back up and walla!, instant on!!!
The boot screen came up with no hitches at all, so I powered it down again, installed the second stick, powered it up again and HOLY SMOKES!!! my system was acting like it was the day I put it together. Fast, snappy, no problems whatsoever and has been like a completely new computer right out of the box ever since.
If you haven't tried the aforementioned method with your memory, I suggest you do, just to see of course!
Yo-
@Bryan - thanks for that info. It could be what is happening here. I will give it one more shot before I decide what else to do.
Do you happen to know a good driver version that is running well with your 5970s (or was at some point) so I can make sure it's not something messing up with a newer driver optimized for the 6000 series?
!
I ran 10.12 for a long time but I've been running 11.5 since it came out without a problem on any project. I haven't tried any of the newer drivers .... if it ain't broke don't fix mentality.
11.6 seems to be working good for me with the 5970 I installed ... From what I'm hearing 11.7 or higher is going to be needed ay the Albert Project but I'm not all that worried about running my ATI there as the NVIDIA Cards work fer me ...
John P. Myers
12-01-11, 03:49 AM
Remove the 5870 and throw the 5970 in there . . . boots great. Windows finds the card. Display is nice. Install drivers (I tried several at this point), reboot . . . and machine will never get past the "Starting Windows" black screen with the color logo above the words. Hangs there indefinitely, every time.
Drivers man. I'm telling you ;)
OK, I am officially done trying. :p It's not often I give up on a computer problem, but this takes the cake. Lost over 2mil credits already with this fiasco from having the rig down 2 days. Not giving it a 3rd day. I will have to return it, I guess, or try to sell it on Ebay if they make me take a big hit with returning it...thought about throwing it in Kat's rig, but it won't fit in her case even, and I've got the HAF-932 sitting out for F$, so not sure what else to do?:confused:
For the record, everything on the rig works perfect with (1) HD 5870 and (2) GTX 460s, and the 1100T O/Ced @3.8GHz running 100% of all cores...
Fire$torm
12-01-11, 12:49 PM
OK, I am officially done trying. :p It's not often I give up on a computer problem, but this takes the cake. Lost over 2mil credits already with this fiasco from having the rig down 2 days. Not giving it a 3rd day. I will have to return it, I guess, or try to sell it on Ebay if they make me take a big hit with returning it...thought about throwing it in Kat's rig, but it won't fit in her case even, and I've got the HAF-932 sitting out for F$, so not sure what else to do?:confused:
For the record, everything on the rig works perfect with (1) HD 5870 and (2) GTX 460s, and the 1100T O/Ced @3.8GHz running 100% of all cores...
OK, that's not going to happen. Use the HAF for Kat. But first pull Kat's hardware out and set it up on a table. Install the card and see if it works. If it does then Kat gets the HAF, you'll just have to paint it pink and white... =))
If not, we will talk........
OK, that's not going to happen. Use the HAF for Kat. But first pull Kat's hardware out and set it up on a table. Install the card and see if it works. If it does then Kat gets the HAF, you'll just have to paint it pink and white... =))
If not, we will talk........
Hurrumph.:-w Man, that was supposed to be your Christmas present! :o Alright, I will think about it. That 5970 is making me feel like this at the moment though: b-(:((~X(:-?
Many hours later . . . system works perfect with the 5870. Prim95 stable for hours, with all latest BIOS, drivers, etc.
Remove the 5870 and throw the 5970 in there . . . boots great. Windows finds the card. Display is nice. Install drivers (I tried several at this point), reboot . . . and machine will never get past the "Starting Windows" black screen with the color logo above the words. Hangs there indefinitely, every time.
So, I'm officially done - this thing has wasted so much of my time I have been up for 39 hours straight now. Even I get a little fatigued after that. My only thought left is to try it in Kat's mobo and that would tell me if it's the mobo or the card. But even if it's my mobo and not the card, I don't know what good it's going to do me ... I just got the bigger case so I could use all 3 slots for GPUs, and this 5970 won't even fit in Kat's case, so even if it works on her mobo, I still am not sure what the best outcome is. :p
If the Fan on the 5970 is spinning real fast on start up try making sure the 6 & 8 Pin Plugs are plugged in real good, both the ones I installed gave me trouble at first but after making real sure the plugs were seated all the way the settled down and ran like they should ... Also make sure the Card is seated real good in the Motherboard ...
Mike029
12-01-11, 06:51 PM
OK, that's not going to happen. Use the HAF for Kat. But first pull Kat's hardware out and set it up on a table. Install the card and see if it works. If it does then Kat gets the HAF, you'll just have to paint it pink and white... =))
If not, we will talk........
Sorry Jed but I have to agree with F$. You NEED to do this to know if it's the card. Then you can plan accordingly. I know it's another few hrs of breaking down a box but it'll be well worth it.
Well, shoot. Of all our purchases, I guess I was the one to get a bad card. At least I don't feel like a total idiot now.
I pulled Kat's rig all apart on the bench, and set to work. Tried both pci-e slots, both PSUs (I have a new Thermaltake 750W gaming PSU in hers with a single 12V rail, so I know it's good), and her mobo is an MSI with a different chipset than my ASRock, so this was a good test.
Something is clearly wrong with this card because it hangs at the same place (on the reboot after driver install, and I used the Windows restore feature so I could go back in time so to speak and test several drivers).
However, on her MSI mobo, when it hangs at the starting windows screen, if you let it sit long enough, it kicks you out back to the BIOS, with an error message of, "Hyper Transport sync error". Which could be caused by lots of things, but since that mobo doesn't have that error with a 4870, 5870, or GTX 460, or any combo of RAM or HDDs I've thrown at it over the last year, I think we can safely say this HD 5970 is defective. I am guessing the RAM on this thing is FUBAR or some similar problem.
Guess it's going back to the egg...
Mike029
12-01-11, 08:35 PM
Well, shoot. Of all our purchases, I guess I was the one to get a bad card. At least I don't feel like a total idiot now.
I pulled Kat's rig all apart on the bench, and set to work. Tried both pci-e slots, both PSUs (I have a new Thermaltake 750W gaming PSU in hers with a single 12V rail, so I know it's good), and her mobo is an MSI with a different chipset than my ASRock, so this was a good test.
Something is clearly wrong with this card because it hangs at the same place (on the reboot after driver install, and I used the Windows restore feature so I could go back in time so to speak and test several drivers).
However, on her MSI mobo, when it hangs at the starting windows screen, if you let it sit long enough, it kicks you out back to the BIOS, with an error message of, "Hyper Transport sync error". Which could be caused by lots of things, but since that mobo doesn't have that error with a 4870, 5870, or GTX 460, or any combo of RAM or HDDs I've thrown at it over the last year, I think we can safely say this HD 5970 is defective. I am guessing the RAM on this thing is FUBAR or some similar problem.
Guess it's going back to the egg...
Bad news but at least it's an answer. Now lets hope that NewEgg has another to send. Another option is that you could send it to the manufacturer (Diamond) and let them repair/replace it. If not, perhaps they'll upgrade you to a 6990. :-" I know wishful thinking.
However, on her MSI mobo, when it hangs at the starting windows screen, if you let it sit long enough, it kicks you out back to the BIOS
That's telling me that the Motherboard is just not recognizing the Video Card, I get that on certain Box's of mine with Cards that have been in the Box & running for some time. I go to reboot or start the Box & it will hang & self reboot, then all of a sudden it will boot up. Sold a Card awhile ago to somebody & they swore up and down they couldn't get the Card to work & gave me a bad Rating. The Card was running when I sold it to him & ran when I got it back & still is running. Moral is some Motherboards just won't accept certain Cards no matter what you do, possibly you need a BIOS Update ??? I know some Motherboards need a BIOS Update before they will recognize certain CPU's, don't know if that holds true for GPU's ??? ...
That's telling me that the Motherboard is just not recognizing the Video Card... Moral is some Motherboards just won't accept certain Cards no matter what you do, possibly you need a BIOS Update ??? I know some Motherboards need a BIOS Update before they will recognize certain CPU's, don't know if that holds true for GPU's ??? ...
That sounds about right. Weird thing is, it detects the card just fine until after the drivers are installed, and then it goes nuts when trying to load windows. Something else a little strange is this particular card gets so hot - even when it's just sitting there, i.e. load is 0% - that you can't even touch the backplate where the DVI cable connects, without burning your finger! Clearly something is not right with this.
I agree about the mobo / BIOS issue too. I tried all BIOS updates, and even rolled back to previous ones just to see, on both mobos, but no luck. I find it a little interesting that it didn't work on either mobo - and they are two different brands with two different chipset generations, so you would think one would have worked?:confused:
You should have just gotten a Nvidia card and you wouldn't have the problems!;););):D:D:D
You should have just gotten a Nvidia card and you wouldn't have the problems!;););):D:D:D
To Quote Maxwell, "Sush, you!" :D :D :D hehehe...yeah, I know. It was a crap shoot, but 4600+ GFLOPS for $299 was not something I could pass up!:o Oh well...
Something else a little strange is this particular card gets so hot - even when it's just sitting there, i.e. load is 0% - that you can't even touch the backplate where the DVI cable connects, without burning your finger! Clearly something is not right with this.
If you still have the Card see if the fan is turning at all on start up, shouldn't get that hot on start up with no load to keep the Computer from starting up unless the Fan isn't turning. My 5970's feel hot too when I get into windows or under load 40c - 45c a lot hotter than a single core card. My GTX 590's run about the same for heat on start up. That's the problem with air cooled Dual Core Video Cards > Heat ...
Have mine running @ 850 Core & 825 Core & about 70% Fan, the one Card just won't run stable @ 850 Core but runs fine @ 825 Core so far anyway ...
Well, fan does go on at startup, but maybe not enough? Like it's too slow or something? Anyway, I got an RMA# from the Egg today, so I'm just going to send it back. I can't afford to spend any more time on it, really...something has to be up with it.
That's a good O/C you got there - now you're in the range of 2x 5870 cards with them! ;)
Duke of Buckingham
12-02-11, 02:48 PM
Wizard someone called me again:-s
http://420askit.com/htgb/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/install-wizard.jpg
Crazy Duke:p
Mike029
12-02-11, 03:32 PM
If you still have the Card see if the fan is turning at all on start up, shouldn't get that hot on start up with no load to keep the Computer from starting up unless the Fan isn't turning. My 5970's feel hot too when I get into windows or under load 40c - 45c a lot hotter than a single core card. My GTX 590's run about the same for heat on start up. That's the problem with air cooled Dual Core Video Cards > Heat ...
Have mine running @ 850 Core & 825 Core & about 70% Fan, the one Card just won't run stable @ 850 Core but runs fine @ 825 Core so far anyway ...
I moved my 5970 to it's full time box and it giving my problems. I can't get it to oc over 770 with it locking up my computer. MB is an Asus M4A79T Deluxe with a AMD x2 560. I had a 5870 and a GTX 570 running without a problem. I moved the 5970 to run with the other two cards. Heat was a big problem I could not get the 5870, which was the middle card, under 92. Pulled out the 5870 and heat is fine but as I said, can't get this card to oc. I had it running at 800 in my gaming box along with a 5870. I think it may have to do with the fact that I only have 2 cores.
I'm not running a cpu project and the cpu usage is at 100%. I'm done messing with it and losing stones. I'll try again after I do some reading on
Are you using MSI Afterburner & increasing the Voltage some ? 1075 to 1100 should be enough to get you to 825-850 Core ...
Mike029
12-02-11, 04:19 PM
Are you using MSI Afterburner & increasing the Voltage some ? 1075 to 1100 should be enough to get you to 825-850 Core ...
I am using MSI afterburner and have not tried raising the voltage. I did manage to get one to 850 and the other to 770 by not syncing the the gpus. I'll play with the voltage and see if I can get them both to 850. I'm at 68 & 70c Fan speed 70%.
Thanks for the advice Steve.
I run with the GPU's Synced ...
Fire$torm
12-02-11, 06:34 PM
I am using MSI afterburner and have not tried raising the voltage. I did manage to get one to 850 and the other to 770 by not syncing the the gpus. I'll play with the voltage and see if I can get them both to 850. I'm at 68 & 70c Fan speed 70%.
Thanks for the advice Steve.
Did you do this? ---> How to Enable Afterburner "Unofficial Overclocking" (Link (http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=338906))
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