MOO Wrapper Happy Holidays!

[RSS]

Santa came by and demanded that I do something about recent credit levels. I obviously said no since we are already granting such high levels to begin with but he wouldn't take no for an answer. Now there's some Santa Magic in effect that makes our validator grant double credits for everybody! I'm so sorry about this and I'll fix it as soon as I have time to figure out what Santa did. :( In other news, base credit is now 9 per stat units (the last number in wu name) and fragmented work will get a 20% bump in compensation. A fragmented work is one that has more than twice the normal amount of packets in it (the second to last number in wu name). Both of these conditions are in effect for now but I might adjust values after seeing how things progress.

More... (http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=178)

[Fire$torm]

Wow, so there really is a Santa Clause....

[spingadus]

Merry Xmas everyone!

Oh and the credit increase here is about 2.5x normal.

It went from about 6500 to 16500 per wu !!!!

[zombie67]

Love it! This kind of thing, that volunteers really appreciate, and DA really hates. It's not "equal" after all.

[Mike029]

Get um while they are SMOKIN hot.

[Fogle]

This is the kind of thing we need an email blast on. Just now moved to Moo, as I only just now noticed this thread! :mad:

[Fire$torm]

This is the kind of thing we need an email blast on. Just now moved to Moo, as I only just now noticed this thread! :mad:

Yeah, well we are almost there. But I did promote the RSS post to a front page article. So that should help.

F$

[Duke of Buckingham]

http://rlv.zcache.com/moory_christmas_and_a_happy_moo_year_card-p137725170343856417qqld_400.jpg

and

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Xoze-g1C4mw/TRuswbJpqvI/AAAAAAAAAY0/jFFW0lCbdSc/s1600/Moo-year.jpg

http://australia.pioneer.com/Portals/0/australia/images/products/inoculants/stacked%20cows.jpg

Duke

[coronicus]

holly cow... moving fleet over to test it out... What a christmas cheer.. =P~

[coronicus]

Wow how much longer is this going to go on... I went from barely getting 1mil a day to 2.25 mil a day... Im sure this is going to get the comunity in an uproar specially since they are already one of the high end paying projects..

[Fire$torm]

... Im sure this is going to get the comunity in an uproar

Me thinks this could be the point. Or at least one of them. Not all projects are happy with DA's view of the BOINC community.

[Mike029]

I wonder how many more people have been drawn to this project by the added stones? Perhaps it won't take 9 to 72 years if they add more processing power.

[denim]

My CUDA card is putting up nice amounts on Moo with the new credit levels.

[Crazybob]

Totally missed this! Luckily I run Moo on most ATI boxes.

[Mike029]

My CUDA card is putting up nice amounts on Moo with the new credit levels.

I wonder if it beats DiRT credit wise?

[spingadus]

I wonder if it beats DiRT credit wise?

Not if are using an Nvidia card. Moo! sucks for Nvidia.

[trigggl]

Not if are using an Nvidia card. Moo! sucks for Nvidia.

+1

My 4870 completes a task in a little over 20 minutes. The 9800 is taking roughly 2 hours.

[spingadus]

Card
time
credit
credit/sec

Credit/24h/card




GTX 590





4280





6528





1.53








131,780.19










HD 6970





2000





6528





3.26






282,009.60







Considering that the GTX590 cost 2x as much as the HD6970 ($800 vs $350) and is a 'dual gpu' card vs 'single gpu' the fact that it gets 1/2 the daily output is horrible. When I ran my GTX590, Moo! used both gpus on a single task and I still got worse times. Not worth it unless this is the only project you run.

If you want the gpu stats per core for the GTX590, just divide by 2 and be sad.

[STE\/E]

Card
time
credit
credit/sec

Credit/24h/card




GTX 590





4280





6528





1.53








131,780.19










HD 6970





2000





6528





3.26






282,009.60







Considering that the GTX590 cost 2x as much as the HD6970 ($800 vs $350) and is a 'dual gpu' card vs 'single gpu' the fact that it gets 1/2 the daily output is horrible. When I ran my GTX590, Moo! used both gpus on a single task and I still got worse times. Not worth it unless this is the only project you run.

If you want the gpu stats per core for the GTX590, just divide by 2 and be sad.

I'm happy with what I'm getting on my NVIDIA Box's for now anyway, they cut the Credits a little yesterday so will have to keep monitoring the situation.

My 2 single Card 590 Box's were getting over 500k Per Day each & still got over 400k each yesterday even with the Credits lowered a little. My single card 5870 Box got close to 1.5 Million the last 2 days & the single card 6990 Box close to 3 Million the last 2 Days. Why your getting so little Credit on both your ATI & NVIDIA Cards I don't know but for me the Credits at MOO are very close to comparable to what I get with my NVIDIA Cards at the PG Project right now. With DIRT Down the MOO Project isn't that bad an Option for me anyway ...

[spingadus]

Nice numbers!

I forgot to mention that my numbers are based on normal Moo! credit and not on the holiday increase.

For holiday times, I've been getting around 700k on my 6970, which is great :)

As for my GTX 590, I don't know whats up. I'm running at stock speeds. Could it have something to do with Moo! running 2 gpus on a single task? I don't know if that is normal or not.

[zombie67]

Nice numbers!

I forgot to mention that my numbers are based on normal Moo! credit and not on the holiday increase.

For holiday times, I've been getting around 700k on my 6970, which is great :)

As for my GTX 590, I don't know whats up. I'm running at stock speeds. Could it have something to do with Moo! running 2 gpus on a single task? I don't know if that is normal or not.

That is normal. Are you using the right "core" (aka application)? Did you run the benchmark process?

[STE\/E]

Get an actual Wall Clock Time for the Wu's on your 590 or what the BOINC Managers says the Wu's are running in, mine run them in about 13.5 to 17.5 Min' running @ 700 Core Speed, what I see in your Account is over an hour for your 590 but I think that's being reported as Double the Time or more. I noticed off & on the Times being reported Double the Time than it actually took to run the Wu's ... I never have run any Benchmarks on my Box's for the MOO Project because it never works, I just set to Auto-Select I think it is ...

[Crazybob]

I had the same problem. 80,000/day for dual GTX460's. When you say running the benchmarks is that with the BOINC software or a standalone program?

[zombie67]

You use the app in the project directory, from the command line. You try out each of the core choices and then pick the fastest one (at the project's preferences page).

[Fire$torm]

I had the same problem. 80,000/day for dual GTX460's. When you say running the benchmarks is that with the BOINC software or a standalone program?

Nope. Its a Moo benchmark.

Just shutdown BOINC. open Windows Explorer and navigate to the Moowrap.net project folder. In the folder tree (left column of Explorer) press Ctrl + Shift while right clicking the Moowrap.net folder and select "Open Command Window Here".

In the command window type the following dnetc518-win32-x86-stream.exe -bench and press enter. This will run the benchmark and report the best "Core" app to use for Moo. Now just go to the Moo website and in the project preferences section select the Core that the bench recommended.

[zombie67]

Someone (else :) ) needs to type up a quick explanation of "cores" and how to benchmark (for all OSs). Put that in a thread of its own. And then make that a sticky in the Moo sub-forum.

Edit: Or maybe add it to this page:

http://www.setiusa.us/content.php?455-moo!-wrapper_1

But a sticky with a link to that page would still be needed.

[coronicus]

Aye good idea.. i had to dig several times for the info since the subject matter didnt match what i was looking for... Ill see if i can find that info again that way we can clean it up and sticky it somewere like in the moo section

[coronicus]

This is just info i copied with some minor editing from a few thread so please help me out in editing or corecting any of the info below so we can get an admin to sticky this somewere.. I know moo gave me a terible headache trying to figure out and all this info would have made things so much easier. Also if i forgot to give anyone credit for the info please say something so it can be included.


MOO info

1. Unless something has changed you WILL need the dummy plug.

Did you "extend" the desktop to the 2nd card so it would be found by Windows?

Crossfire removes the need for a dummy plug as the cards are then technically one unit.

http://www.setiusa.us/faq.php?faq=gpu#faq_dummyplug
2. Moo uses ALL ATI GPUs so you will only show 1 task running in BOINC.

running (??cpu + 2 ATI GPUs)
3. The time reported in the task listing on the Moo project may or may not be accurate when running multiple GPUs. Click on the left column of a pending or valid wu (opens the wu std err file) and look at the START time and the STOP time and the difference is the actual time it took to do the wu. Your reported time MIGHT be double what this says. The wu has the correct time.
4. When you have Moo running, check the GPU loading using something like GPU-Z or MSI Afterburner you should see 95%+ loading on both cards.
5. when multiple GPU's are present. BOINC may only use the faster one. In the <options> section of your cc_config.xml file you can add:

<use_all_gpus>1</use_all_gpus>
6. On a single GPU you need to reserve a thread for Moo. On a dual GPU you need to reserve a FULL CORE.
7. Are you running your wu on "core 0". On all my ATIs systems it is MUCH MUCH better to run on "Core 3". You set that in project preferences. You can run a benchmark that will show you how it will perform on each of your cores. Then use that to select the correct "core" in prefernces.

1. Stop BOINC

2. Call up the command prompt

3. Type in the path name of the executable "dnetc518-win32-x86-stream.exe -bench"

[INDENT] So it will be something like C:\program data\boinc\project\moowrap.net\dnetc.... . exe -bench

4. Hit enter

The program will run and show you the speed of each core on your processor (relative only to Moo). In Project Preferences that is the one you want to use. Makes a BIG BIG BIG difference in credits.

Most of the credit goes to bryan for this information and also those in the following threads
http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?2591-Dual-5870-s
http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?1760-Moo-Runtimes

[spingadus]

That is normal. Are you using the right "core" (aka application)? Did you run the benchmark process?

I ran the benchmark for my HD 6970 machine and set the core in the project preferences. But I did not do it for my GTX590 box. I saw that the performance was horrible after a few long tasks and just decided it wasn't worth it. But i'm retesting again and my numbers are looking much better now. I'd have to change my box to use another boinc group as well if the core is different. I think I'm in the Home group, so I'll probably try 'school' or 'work' to separate them.


Get an actual Wall Clock Time for the Wu's on your 590 or what the BOINC Managers says the Wu's are running in, mine run them in about 13.5 to 17.5 Min' running @ 700 Core Speed, what I see in your Account is over an hour for your 590 but I think that's being reported as Double the Time or more. I noticed off & on the Times being reported Double the Time than it actually took to run the Wu's ... I never have run any Benchmarks on my Box's for the MOO Project because it never works, I just set to Auto-Select I think it is ...

I'm running another test and the time on my client appears to say that it will complete in about 17 minutes! Wow!. This is lightyears better than what it was getting before. I haven't changed anything really, except that I restarted the client a few times fiddling with Einstein. It looks like I have to change my feelings towards Moo! and Nvidia :) I'll check the task times on Moo! shortly to see what is reported.

[zombie67]

Be sure to give moo enough CPU. I usually give them 3 cores, so that even with moo running, the CPU is no where near 100%. Then I add back CPU threads one at a time until run times start to climb, then go back one notch.

[spingadus]

So, my last wu (Link) (http://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=3529&offset=0&show_names=1&state=3&appid=)took 948.36 seconds and was awarded 3,686.40 credits.

3,686.40/948.36*86400=335848 credits/day

Previous results:

16,653.60/4,315.63*86400=333409 credits/day

So, the rate is the same, apparently I just got a shorter wu. This is with "Holiday" credits.

Considering that 'holiday' credits are about 2.5x normal and my gtx is dual core working on 1 task:

335848/2.5/2=67169.6 credits/day per core. This is basically what I had estimated before. So, actually nothing has changed.

will try running the benchmark as soon as I can get my client to download the ...stream.exe file. It's not currentl y in my moo!wrap directory for some reason.

[spingadus]

Be sure to give moo enough CPU. I usually give them 3 cores, so that even with moo running, the CPU is no where near 100%. Then I add back CPU threads one at a time until run times start to climb, then go back one notch.

It has 2 free threads atm and the cpu % fluctuates between 89-90%.

[zombie67]

I don't think you can look at any one unit to measure performance on moo. Mine are all over the place. You really need to measure day vs day.

[Al]

So, my last wu (Link) (http://moowrap.net/results.php?hostid=3529&offset=0&show_names=1&state=3&appid=)took 948.36 seconds and was awarded 3,686.40 credits.

3,686.40/948.36*86400=335848 credits/day

Previous results:

16,653.60/4,315.63*86400=333409 credits/day

So, the rate is the same, apparently I just got a shorter wu. This is with "Holiday" credits.

Considering that 'holiday' credits are about 2.5x normal and my gtx is dual core working on 1 task:

335848/2.5/2=67169.6 credits/day per core. This is basically what I had estimated before. So, actually nothing has changed.

will try running the benchmark as soon as I can get my client to download the ...stream.exe file. It's not currentl y in my moo!wrap directory for some reason.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you should be looking for the cuda version, not stream...I think stream is for benchmarking the ati's only. I could be wrong on that though.

[spingadus]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you should be looking for the cuda version, not stream...I think stream is for benchmarking the ati's only. I could be wrong on that though.

Yeah, I think you are right. It wouldn't download. I even turned on cpu processing in the project configuration and eventually tried a reset.

I ran the cuda bench and it said to use #1. So, I've set that.

[STE\/E]

Personally I think the Benchmark thing to choose a CPU Core is a lot of wasted time, also shutting down 1-2 or 3 Cores. I tested shutting down Cores (3 on my HT 12 Thread E980x's) and didn't see 1 bit of time difference or Credit difference for either my 6990 or 590's ... I also did a little looking around at guy'z Box's that say their using this Core or that Core & my Wu's run just as fast as theirs just using AUTO Select unless they have theirs Overclocked more than mine.

I also discovered a long time ago that setting the # of CPU's to use to <ncpus>0</ncpus> that the GPU's WU from any GPU Project will automatically use the amount of CPU that it needs to use without any input from me. I don't know how that works since I set it to use 0 CPU but it must be something the BOINC Client Automatically adjusts for when running GPU Wu's because at times depending on the GPU Wu's I'm running I have 2-3 or 4 CPU's running on a Quad Core or 4-5 or 6 running on a 6 Core Box.

I know that works for Client 6.12.34 & up but not sure about anything lower than that ...

[Crazybob]

I ran the bench on this dual system and the #2 core looked to be the best. Problem is that if you have more than 3 systems running Moo and you set each to a different location and set the core #, won't systems set to the same location run differently with the same core number selected?

[Al]

Is anyone else starting to see a consistent, albeit sight decrease in credits/wu? Mine are coming in at the low 13000's. Had been in the 16's, 15's and some 14's. Not complaining, just an observation.

[coronicus]

aye.. also seems like they stopped sending out work, just noticed

also, no colatz or MW... so what should i use for backup?

[Fire$torm]

Personally I think the Benchmark thing to choose a CPU Core is a lot of wasted time, also shutting down 1-2 or 3 Cores. I tested shutting down Cores (3 on my HT 12 Thread E980x's) and didn't see 1 bit of time difference or Credit difference for either my 6990 or 590's ... I also did a little looking around at guy'z Box's that say their using this Core or that Core & my Wu's run just as fast as theirs just using AUTO Select unless they have theirs Overclocked more than mine.

I also discovered a long time ago that setting the # of CPU's to use to <ncpus>0</ncpus> that the GPU's WU from any GPU Project will automatically use the amount of CPU that it needs to use without any input from me. I don't know how that works since I set it to use 0 CPU but it must be something the BOINC Client Automatically adjusts for when running GPU Wu's because at times depending on the GPU Wu's I'm running I have 2-3 or 4 CPU's running on a Quad Core or 4-5 or 6 running on a 6 Core Box.

I know that works for Client 6.12.34 & up but not sure about anything lower than that ...

I think some of the factors that influence Moo production include hardware make and system setup. I have 3 5830s, one is a HIS and other two are Sapphire units. And each computer is different, i7 920 (Socket 1366) running Win7 x64, i7 860 (Socket 1156) running WinXP Pro x64 Corp. and a Phenom II 810 Running WinXP Pro x64. When the HIS was the only one I had I "thought" I was getting good credits but I didn't know anything about the benchmarking or why to reserve CPU cores. After I started running the Sapphire cards I discovered they were way outperforming the HIS. Maxwell and Bryan turned me on to maxing out the HIS which increased that cards output somewhere in the 20~30 range. Sorry I forgot the exact amount.

Your mileage may vary....

[Crazybob]

Is anyone else starting to see a consistent, albeit sight decrease in credits/wu? Mine are coming in at the low 13000's. Had been in the 16's, 15's and some 14's. Not complaining, just an observation.

They are slowly bringing it back to what it was.

[coronicus]

Well for some reason my main rig wouldnt get any new work units from moo so had to reset and that fix the problem not sure why but its back up and running.. As for the core thing i tried it but like steve i didnt see any dif and changed em back to default.

[spingadus]

aye.. also seems like they stopped sending out work, just noticed

also, no colatz or MW... so what should i use for backup?

Your only current choices for AMD are Moo!, Collatz, MW and Primegrid.

[Al]

Thought so. I'll have my 10 mil tomorrow and I'll be moving on if there's anything to move on to.

[spingadus]

I think the issue with the bench-marking and core changing is that it's not guaranteed to give you a performance increase. It's just an option to try. I can't say that I've personally seen an improvement or not, but others have, so good for them. I'll just keep plodding along slowly with my [mm] goals. I was going to give Moo! a long break to work on MW and Collatz, but I couldn't pass up the holiday credits.

[Bryan]

They are slowly bringing it back to what it was.

Teemu said i the Santa Claus thread that he had raised the credit to 9 per step and then doubled that. The NORMAL is 8.5 credits per. He is going to set it to 8 here pretty quickly so the credits are going to drop below normal when the Christmas present ends!

I guess like PG, once they get you hooked they can drop the credits without any concern! :(

[trigggl]

I ran the bench on this dual system and the #2 core looked to be the best. Problem is that if you have more than 3 systems running Moo and you set each to a different location and set the core #, won't systems set to the same location run differently with the same core number selected?

I thought about this. The ones (core #) you have the most systems fastest on set them to home,school,work. Then the rest you can set on the default with -1.

Both of my nvidia are fastest on Core 6, if that means anything.

[Mike029]

Teemu said i the Santa Claus thread that he had raised the credit to 9 per step and then doubled that. The NORMAL is 8.5 credits per. He is going to set it to 8 here pretty quickly so the credits are going to drop below normal when the Christmas present ends!

I guess like PG, once they get you hooked they can drop the credits without any concern! :(

Yeah, I know what you mean Bryan. Why the bonus only to drop the points?

[zombie67]

Your only current choices for AMD are Moo!, Collatz, MW and Primegrid.

And POEM, Albert, SETI Beta.

[spingadus]

And POEM, Albert, SETI Beta.

Yeah, I didn't list these because I haven't been able to ever get any AMD work from them.

[zombie67]

Yeah, I didn't list these because I haven't been able to ever get any AMD work from them.

Yeah, they have special requirements. But it can be done.

[spingadus]

Yeah, they have special requirements. But it can be done.

Oh cool. I'll have to check into this in 2012. Only 20 more minutes left of 2011!

[spingadus]

Btw, I posted about my credit discrepancies between my HD 6970 and GTX 590 over at Moo!

LINK (http://moowrap.net/forum_thread.php?id=187)

[Duke of Buckingham]

I have the same results for the HD 6970 and the HD 5770. Well I dont understand either. As I am new with GPUs I thought I was doing something wrong. Tell us something when you know Professor spingadus.

Duke:confused:

[trigggl]

Here's a case of "I can use the GPU, but should I".

My nvidia 8300GS will crunch Moo! Apparently Moo doesn't require much Ram so Moo will send it work. Of course, if you try to use the GUI at all, CPU on one core jumps to 100% and the screen moves at iceberg speed. But it does definitely crunch. I'm about to complete my first Moo task on it. It only took 20 hours. I say it's definitely crunching because if I suspend all other tasks and don't use the GUI, cpu usage goes to nearly 0 and work still gets done (but slowly).

It's 3k extra a day, but I lose the use of that computer for anything but crunching. The card just happens to be in my main computer for normal use. I'm currently typing this from the computer formally known as KIM. 'kite' as KIM is now called, with a 4870 has no problems running Moo and supporting GUI usage at the same time.

[STE\/E]

I moved most of my NVIDIA Cards back over to PGrid, credits dropping to much at MOO for the NV Cards, left my ATI's though ...

[spingadus]

Yeah, looks like the AMD credits are still up around 2x normal. I'll stay until they go back to normal and then give some MW/Collatz some New Years love.

[trigggl]

Here's a case of "I can use the GPU, but should I".

My nvidia 8300GS will crunch Moo...It only took 20 hours.

It's 3k extra a day, but I lose the use of that computer for anything but crunching....

I was wrong. I don't know if it was because I started doing some PG work or not, but the last couple of "packets" took a lot more hours than the other 44 or so. The final time was 36 hours with a CPU time of around 300 s. #:-s


However, my GF 9800 GT gets about 45k a day on Moo which is about what it gets on PG so when Dirt is down I can do one or the other.

[Duke of Buckingham]

Here's a case of "I can use the GPU, but should I".

My nvidia 8300GS will crunch Moo! Apparently Moo doesn't require much Ram so Moo will send it work. Of course, if you try to use the GUI at all, CPU on one core jumps to 100% and the screen moves at iceberg speed. But it does definitely crunch. I'm about to complete my first Moo task on it. It only took 20 hours. I say it's definitely crunching because if I suspend all other tasks and don't use the GUI, cpu usage goes to nearly 0 and work still gets done (but slowly).

It's 3k extra a day, but I lose the use of that computer for anything but crunching. The card just happens to be in my main computer for normal use. I'm currently typing this from the computer formally known as KIM. 'kite' as KIM is now called, with a 4870 has no problems running Moo and supporting GUI usage at the same time.

Thanks Professor trigggl. I am a real disgrace on GPU stuff.

Duke

[trigggl]

Thanks Professor trigggl. I am a real disgrace on GPU stuff.

Duke

I think I can safely say that it's a complete waste of time and resources to try to crunch with the 8300. I'd probably cost the 4870 more than on Moo task by using it as a PC while trying to finish just one on my regular PC.