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NJCaNS
11-25-10, 02:10 AM
Noticed I moved up in Aqua, Iber and WUProp. Looked like a highly ranked team member detached from those three projects. By highly ranked I mean 3rd in Iber and I think top 5 in Aqua and top 10 in WUProp.

Maxwell
11-25-10, 04:16 AM
http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=userbycpid&cpid=6ceba8d274a1c972e44eb9d1f6854a42

Beerdrinker
11-25-10, 04:41 AM
http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=userbycpid&cpid=6ceba8d274a1c972e44eb9d1f6854a42

Looks like he made himself a new team:

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/team_display.php?teamid=3029

I hope WE did not scare him off..??

DrPop
11-25-10, 12:43 PM
I cannot say I am surprised, but I am deeply unhappy about this. Enough so that I probably should not have read this thread on vacation, because now I'm going to be bummed out.
I had many PMs with him. A good man, and solid in his principles...but, on so many levels, this team is drifting away from his ideal.
I will let him speak for himself if he ever feels the need to do so. I tried in vain over the last month or so to see if there was anything I could do personally to help him stay. There was nothing...

There were several issues, but I believe the largest is / was the fact that so few care about being #1 overall here. I have to say I could agree with him a little there...we are now at position #3. That may have been the final straw for him, I don't know.

trigggl
11-25-10, 01:17 PM
I cannot say I am surprised, but I am deeply unhappy about this. Enough so that I probably should not have read this thread on vacation, because now I'm going to be bummed out.
I had many PMs with him. A good man, and solid in his principles...but, on so many levels, this team is drifting away from his ideal.
I will let him speak for himself if he ever feels the need to do so. I tried in vain over the last month or so to see if there was anything I could do personally to help him stay. There was nothing...

There were several issues, but I believe the largest is / was the fact that so few care about being #1 overall here. I have to say I could agree with him a little there...we are now at position #3. That may have been the final straw for him, I don't know.

So he believes that he's going to achieve No.1 all on his own? If he wants to be No.1, maybe he should join the French team, if that's the thing most important to him.

I would think the team would do better with more members in regards to achieving No.1 overall whether that's their goal or not. Do we only want to accept new members if they can be assimilated to that goal? If not, then I guess we don't want new members. If that's not the case then we're going to have a lot of members who don't think it's the most important thing. You can't have it both ways. If you only want members that are devoted to being No.1 at all cost, maybe it should be displayed somewhere on the invitation to join the team.

Do you want more team members or do you want only team members devoted to No.1?

Maybe the motto should be changed to "Together we can accomplish Number 1".

Let's tell the truth. Who do you want to join the team?


PS. Is the motto even displayed anywhere on the board?

Dude! I just looked to see who it was. That is a huge loss. I'm not surprised either, though.

DrBob
11-25-10, 02:01 PM
Crunch3r has been a dedicated team member for a few years now. His contribution to the team was not only the additional cobbles from his machines. He compiled many optimized project applications and BOINC clients for the team's use and has helped many with software & hardware problems.
I for one will miss him here but wish him the best of luck in his new endeavor and to his new team.

If you happen to read this thread Crunch3r, once again, thank you for all your efforts to help make SETI.USA one of the top teams in BOINC DC. :)

Bob

DrBob
11-25-10, 02:07 PM
So he believes that he's going to achieve No.1 all on his own?Well, about 5 years ago a cruncher by the nick of Project III had the very same idea. Granted that was earlier in the evolution of BOINC but don't ever rule anything out. ;)


PS. Is the motto even displayed anywhere on the board? I fear this is some of the "old" we have left behind in the reorganization of the team.
Very sad. :(

Maxwell
11-25-10, 02:22 PM
Crunch3r has been a dedicated team member for a few years now. His contribution to the team was not only the additional cobbles from his machines. He compiled many optimized project applications and BOINC clients for the team's use and has helped many with software & hardware problems.
I for one will miss him here but wish him the best of luck in his new endeavor and to his new team.

If you happen to read this thread Crunch3r, once again, thank you for all your efforts to help make SETI.USA one of the top teams in BOINC DC. :)

Bob
Well said, DrBob. Totally agree.

DrPop
11-25-10, 04:28 PM
Just so it is clear, I was simply trying to explain some of Crunch3r's viewpoints in my earlier post.

I for one, wish EVERY member on this team well, regardless of his/her goals in BOINC DC and what is more, I would (and do) appreciate every single cruncher that adds their cobble stones to this team's output.

As I alluded to above, this is a huge loss for our team, one that almost warrants a moment of silence. Crunch3r is huge in BOINC, not just in crunching, but in project coding, etc. I tried my best to help him stay, but to no avail.
Crunch3r, we will miss you, my friend.

For those of us left...let us reflect a little on these events, and endeavor to make OUR TEAM the most friendly, encouraging, engaging place in BOINC Land, so that many more crunchers come our way.
My best wishes to all who have stuck with our team through thick and thin.

trigggl
11-25-10, 05:00 PM
Just so it is clear, I was simply trying to explain some of Crunch3r's viewpoints in my earlier post.

I for one, wish EVERY member on this team well, regardless of his/her goals in BOINC DC and what is more, I would (and do) appreciate every single cruncher that adds their cobble stones to this team's output.

As I alluded to above, this is a huge loss for our team, one that almost warrants a moment of silence. Crunch3r is huge in BOINC, not just in crunching, but in project coding, etc. I tried my best to help him stay, but to no avail.
Crunch3r, we will miss you, my friend.

For those of us left...let us reflect a little on these events, and endeavor to make OUR TEAM the most friendly, encouraging, engaging place in BOINC Land, so that many more crunchers come our way.
My best wishes to all who have stuck with our team through thick and thin.

Well I did fly off the handle a bit and I wrote what I wrote before I knew who was the subject of the discussion. As was said, he's the one who knows why he left and I really shouldn't have commented on that without knowing all the facts. What I wrote, though is a valid feeling I have concerning the views of many who have left who were the founders.

I've heard more than once disappointment with the team because not enough people thought that being No.1 was important. When you accept a lot of team members telling them they can crunch whatever they want and that some projects are merely encouraged for those that didn't now what to crunch. Well you're going to get a lot of new teammates that have a different focus. How can you be angry at them for not having the same focus? You're going to leave because not enough teammates care about being No.1?

I've even been told that I'll probably get sick of this team and leave eventually because of the lack of dedication to it. What?! Count me among those that don't think I should give up my life's savings and crunch what I don't want to crunch to accomplish it. I'm not going to avoid high paying projects, but I'm not going to be a slave to them either.

Anyways, I meant no disrespect to Chrunch3r in particular, and despite his bluntness I respect him as a team member. I definitely wouldn't have made the "join the French team" comment if I'd known who it was when I wrote it.

Fire$torm
11-25-10, 05:56 PM
I was going to post a response to this yesterday but it would not have been politically correct.
Anyhow, for anyone that is interested read his post on the TSP - MW thread old forum here. (http://www.setiusa.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=223069#p223069)
From what I gather, he was mad/upset/angry about the teams recruiting efforts or lack there of. His post also refers to his disenchantment with the this MB.

But I do not understand his reasoning on either point. Effective recruiting takes talent, time and effort. Just ask any military recruiting office. I for one, do not recruit simply because I am not good at it and I cannot commit the additional time and effort to do it justice anyway.

The message board is just a message board and in the tactile sense it isn't even real as it only exists as ones and zeros in some database.

As to being #1 BOINC overall in the world, it is NOT achievable alone unless you have Warren Buffet's kind of money.

Oh well, whatever. It is what it is.

Cheers Crunch3r. Best wishes on your new venture and I hope you can find what you lost with Team SETI.USA.

trigggl
11-25-10, 10:35 PM
The message board is just a message board and in the tactile sense it isn't even real as it only exists as ones and zeros in some database.

Change always causes friction. New software is something you have to deal with no matter where you go or how long you've been at your job. And, yes, it's usually forced on you, but you still have to learn it and eventually you're able to use it as well as or better than the old. The old board just looks old to me now.

There is one thing from the old board that I would want to be available here and easy to find. I'd like to have a link here, like the link there that you can view active topics. The "New Posts" link here isn't as useful as it should be.

Mike029
11-26-10, 09:28 AM
Crunch3r will be missed and I am sorry to see him go. I wish him well and hope he returns one day. He has put a whole lot of time and effort into this team it did not go unnoticed. A Personal thank you for all your hard work on the opti-apps that I use daily. Take care Crunch3r. *Salutes*

denim
11-26-10, 11:14 AM
So long Crunch3r. :(

Slicker
11-26-10, 01:55 PM
Team goal #1 is to be 1st in SETI. From what I've seen, most cruncher's with large farms could care less about SETI as a project. They spent a lot of money on their systems and spend a lot every month on electricity and want to get the most out of them. SETI keeps lowering the credit. Not a great incentive to stay. Of the couple dozen heavy hitters we have lost in the last two years, the only die-hard SETI advocate I knew of was literally paid to crunch for our team for a year. As a team, we outproduce LA'F 2 to 1 on SETI. Great. Goal #1 accomplished.

So... what is the #2 team goal? No one really agrees as far as I know. I don't think the 20-30 people that visit the boards speak for everyone. Maybe we really only have the one goal.

We have one goal which many who we with to retain as members don't really care about and no firmly established secondary goals.

...and we wonder why so many people come and go.

Fire$torm
11-26-10, 04:09 PM
So... what is the #2 team goal? No one really agrees as far as I know. I don't think the 20-30 people that visit the boards speak for everyone. Maybe we really only have the one goal.

Slicker you are correct. The regular board members do not speak for the whole team. With that in mind, why have so many of the big guns left? Mainly because of disputes among the board regulars. This is our (as in team) quandary.

In regards to team goals here is the "Official" team statement (for those who have never seen it or who cannot fully recall its details):

"welcome to team seti.usa!

our motto:together we will accomplish something amazing!

on march 24, 2005 team seti.usa was created to consolidate united states users and become the #1 seti team in the world.

this goal was achieved within 24 months of inception thanks to the extraordinary efforts of our dedicated membership.

to parlay that effort, and for the benefit of all boinc distributed computing projects, team seti.usa�s commitment to extend beyond a single project has begun.

seti.usa is now boincing the world! join with us as we boldly go where no team has gone before!"

So in a literal sense no specific secondary or tertiary goals are stated. From the above quote, one can infer the teams goal to be #1 in the world. This is my take on it.
Maybe BJ and/or any other team member who was part of the formation of this team could shed some light on this topic?

Pause (to search the old forum).......

OK, I found something interesting. It is a thread discussion about the "Team Motto" (http://www.setiusa.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18&hilit=team+goal) and here is a quote from BJ:

"Since we are talking about the motto..I'll pitch in my 2 cents.

First I want to say that i DO like the motto..give us something to fight for, and it is what first attracted me to the team. There is however something bothersome about it though. If our goal is to attract as many members as possible..it may be better to tweak it just a lil.

Rather than saying that we are trying to catch...and ultimately beat Germany..maybe it would be better to say something like:

The USA has always been known for overcomming adversity. We have historcially always risen from a challenge to accomplish some amazing things. Our goal is to consolidate as many Americans as we can..to be one of the top teams in the world.

(it is a little more benign..than trying to attack Germany...)

It is just an idea..but I am behind the majority..I am willing to go either way..leave it or change it."

And there you have it, "To be one of the TOP TEAMS in the world".

So where do we go from here?

Slicker
11-26-10, 06:16 PM
And there you have it, "To be one of the TOP TEAMS in the world".

So where do we go from here?

Both LAF and SG are outperforming us by 10M a day. Sounds like we should all be on higher paying CPU projects and also buy more GPUs. Since SETI is down 3-4 days a week, has anyone considered asking our SETI members to add AQUA as a backup project for when it is down? We could probably make up a couple million with just those CPUs alone being focused on higher paying projects.

That and recruit.

trigggl
11-26-10, 07:05 PM
Both LAF and SG are outperforming us by 10M a day. Sounds like we should all be on higher paying CPU projects and also buy more GPUs. Since SETI is down 3-4 days a week, has anyone considered asking our SETI members to add AQUA as a backup project for when it is down? We could probably make up a couple million with just those CPUs alone being focused on higher paying projects.

Speaking of high paying, I just returned a PPS(sieve) task from my P4 HT 3.0 GHz. It took 30 hours to do the task, but received 1800 credits. I could have done 2 at once and received 3600 in a little over a day. That's great for a P4.

Fogle
11-26-10, 07:43 PM
I can't worry about being #1 overall, I'm too busy crunching QMC. Go Bash Brothers!

Mike029
11-26-10, 09:21 PM
Both LAF and SG are outperforming us by 10M a day. Sounds like we should all be on higher paying CPU projects and also buy more GPUs. Since SETI is down 3-4 days a week, has anyone considered asking our SETI members to add AQUA as a backup project for when it is down? We could probably make up a couple million with just those CPUs alone being focused on higher paying projects.

That and recruit.
Not a bad idea here. Say something like, "Hey, remember to set Aqua as a back up to your favorite project".

zombie67
11-26-10, 11:06 PM
"#1 in the world" is ambiguous. Measured how? It doesn't say. I can think of three or four different ways to measure "#1".

If it is total credits, then we should be crunching only the following three projects:

CPU: AQUA
ATI: DNETC
CUDA: PG

And never run anything else. EVER.

That sounds like fun to me. :-L

trigggl
11-27-10, 01:13 AM
"#1 in the world" is ambiguous. Measured how? It doesn't say. I can think of three or four different ways to measure "#1".

If it is total credits, then we should be crunching only the following three projects:

CPU: AQUA
ATI: DNETC
CUDA: PG

And never run anything else. EVER.

That sounds like fun to me. :-L
You're just not a team player. You need to get with the program. No more MM's for you. [-X

Fire$torm
11-27-10, 03:29 AM
"#1 in the world" is ambiguous. Measured how? It doesn't say. I can think of three or four different ways to measure "#1".

If it is total credits, then we should be crunching only the following three projects:

CPU: AQUA
ATI: DNETC
CUDA: PG

And never run anything else. EVER.

That sounds like fun to me. :-L
Well, there are those among us who do just that and I see nothing wrong with it? Its their hardware, their money and their time. Who among us has the right to say they are wrong? As a percentage, how many team members are even aware that this debate exists?

How about instead of needlessly placing team members on the defensive, we try something different?

zombie, you stated above that you can think of at least 4 different ways to measure #1 in the world. Well, why not make all four part of the overall team objective. Say something like:

"Team SETI.USA's goal is to be #1 in the world! So here are some of the possible ways you can to contribute and measure your success along with the Teams:

Strategy #1:____________________
Strategy #2:____________________
Strategy #3:____________________
Strategy #4:____________________

Please help Team SETI.USA accomplish something amazing!"

Maxwell
11-27-10, 04:01 AM
I'm pretty sure zombie67 is not saying there is anything wrong with the DNETC/Aqua/PG strategy. Just that it doesn't particularly intrigue him (a sentiment I happen to agree with). No judgments, just an opinion on an interest factor.

Off the top of my head, here are the ways I can think of to measure "Being #1" as a team:
1. #1 in overall credits
2. #1 in [insert project]
3. #1 in the most projects
4. Having the most Team MMs in a particular category.
5. #1 in Formula BOINC
6. #1 in BOINCStats World Cup
7. #1 in DC-Vault

I'm sure I'm missing some, but that's what I can remember right now...

Slicker
11-27-10, 09:50 AM
My point is that our goals are not clear and so long as that is the case, we'll attract people who think they know what our goals are and later wander away when they realize they really don't match up with what they had in mind.

So, what does being "#1 in BOINC" mean? To me it means #1 in total credit. To some it may mean #1 in CPU projects or #1 in UOTD awards or whatever. Right now, we are like Charlie Brown -- wishy washy, and if SETI.USA is a BOINC leader, I don't think that is what we want. Right now I think we are like a little kid who, after the bully took away his ball, tries convincing himself he really didn't want that anyway. That's how I see us with the total credits issue. We had it for a long time. We felt so good about having it that we decided to go for other additional #1's in specific projects or groups of projects. But, now that we've had a bunch of those taken away and also lost our overall #1 in total credits, we are pretending like we never really wanted that anyway.

Or, maybe those members who believe the goal should be #1 in overall BOINC have all left and it no longer matters. If that's the case, then the current members need to set forth the new team goals.

Define and post our specific, achievable goals. Each goal must have a measurement, so #1 in BOINC is not a goal. #1 in FB or #1 in Free-DC Team MM or #1 in total boinc credit as measured on the xxxx stats site would be. Then, if Joe Blow is a die-hard widget cruncher and will only ever crunch widgets, he knows in advance that joining our team will mean his goals and the team goals are not in sync assuming our #1 goal is not to be #1 in widget crunching.

For me, #1 in BOINC should be re-worded as "#1 in BOINC Combined credit across all projects" and that will be measured using BOINCStats and Free-DC. We have to be #1 on both to be considered #1.

If you disagree. That is OK. I agree we can disagree. But a team can't have 10 different plans or we won't be successful at any of them. So, post your specific measurable goal and let's have a team vote and then put the goal(s) on the front page for the world to see.

Crunch3r obviously felt that #1 in BOINC means total credits. He never hid his opinion. I'm guessing that right now, only one or two of the team's top crunchers agree. So, if 70-80% of the team disagrees, maybe it isn't a good fit. All I'm saying is that right now, no one knows for sure because we yet to clearly define our secondary and tertiary goals. Or, maybe we really can't and our only team goal is #1 in SETI.

zombie67
11-27-10, 12:18 PM
I'm pretty sure zombie67 is not saying there is anything wrong with the DNETC/Aqua/PG strategy. Just that it doesn't particularly intrigue him (a sentiment I happen to agree with). No judgments, just an opinion on an interest factor.

Yep. Exactly what I meant, if I was not clear.

DrPop
11-27-10, 12:30 PM
Doggonit! The most important discussion happens while I'm away!
In 100% agreement with Slicker. This is why we are losing people and not attracting new blood. Any good marketing firm or business coach would tell us the same thing. Slicker has spelled it out for free.


For me, #1 in BOINC should be re-worded as "#1 in BOINC Combined credit across all projects" and that will be measured using BOINCStats and Free-DC.

I'll go with his quote above as my vote for our secondary goal (since first goal is #1 at SETI).

Fire$torm
11-27-10, 12:33 PM
Thank you Maxwell and Slicker for your valuable input. Much Appreciated. And BTW, I agree with you Slicker on all the points you mentioned.

Of course most of us active on the old and new forums have been through this debate at least once before...

Some facts:
According to BoincStats
Number of members: 12,840
Number of active members: 2,791 (Which equals 21.7% of team membership)

According to the Forum member list
Number of members with accounts on this forum: 156 (Which equals 5.6% of active team membership and 1.2% of total team membership)

I realize I am just a guppy in the pond, but the squeakiest wheel...

trigggl
11-27-10, 12:34 PM
Here's my definition of #1.

Crunch what you want when you want without pressure from team mates. It should be enjoyable for all.

Heavy hitters are pressured most of all. Just because they are the majority of credits on any given projects, doesn't oblige them to be the team saviors. They don't owe me anything or anyone else.

That's the kind of team I want to be on. I suspect that's the kind of team the majority of team mates that never visit the board want to be on.

Make it enjoyable for enough people and maybe we'll have the retention of members that we need to be No.1 overall. I mean that as a bonus not an objective.

Fire$torm
11-27-10, 12:48 PM
Here's my definition of #1.

Crunch what you want when you want without pressure from team mates. It should be enjoyable for all.

Heavy hitters are pressured most of all. Just because they are the majority of credits on any given projects, doesn't oblige them to be the team saviors. They don't owe me anything or anyone else.

That's the kind of team I want to be on. I suspect that's the kind of team the majority of team mates that never visit the board want to be on.

Make it enjoyable for enough people and maybe we'll have the retention of members that we need to be No.1 overall.
Agreed. My statements were never meant to be a "Most Do or Leave" thing. The intent is only to make friendly suggestions. And no, IMHO, we do not require saviors. Hence my suggestion of creating a series of objectives (or guidelines if you prefer) for the team. These could be added to "Welcome aboard" emails (preferably in the form of links) to new members and the challenge alerts sent to all members before an event.

trigggl
11-27-10, 01:29 PM
Agreed. My statements were never meant to be a "Most Do or Leave" thing. The intent is only to make friendly suggestions.

It may not be the intent, but I think that's the overall impression that's being put out by the invitations and discussions. Appearances are more important than intent when it comes to attracting new members and keeping them.

That's not directed at you though it may appear that way. Pun intended.

Fire$torm
11-27-10, 03:10 PM
It may not be the intent, but I think that's the overall impression that's being put out by the invitations and discussions. Appearances are more important than intent when it comes to attracting new members and keeping them.

That's not directed at you though it may appear that way. Pun intended.
That is precisely why I worded my statements as I did. And this needs to be projected clearly in public team announcements, emails, greetings of welcome and team motto.

So does this require a committee, a MB poll, a survey by email or some combination of these?

P.S. I love puns (Which is why Piers Anthony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xanth) is one of my fav. authors). And the sharper the pun, the better :P

Dorsilfin
11-27-10, 04:50 PM
Sad to see a solid member go.

My philosophy is. "crunch your own crunch"

its your computers, its your electric bill.. Crunch what perks your interest.

is it nice to have everyone on the same project/pages for team goals? Absolutely.. but at the same time, every credit crunched is still under the flag of Seti USA

Hopefully he will return if something we do perks his interest again.

Crazybob
11-27-10, 04:56 PM
Apparently SG and LAF have outspent us in regards to the newer GPU cards. I guess that's why their economy looks the way it does. We as Americans are a little bit cheap when it comes to investing in things in a down economy and that's why were on a slow uptrend. When we used to have some more big guns here, it made it easy to turn resources to other projects and blow the competition away. We don't have as much resources now compared to the competition. For now we are going to have to survive with IMHO, recruiting. One of the reasons I joined this team was to defend our countries honor by being the best. I've seen us be the best and for some reason this isn't everyone's goal. To each their own I guess, we all have different reasons for doing what we do. I would be willing to purchase more rigs if I knew that by retiring some of the older ones, would not make me pay any more for the electric. I have 6 boxes here at home, 4 of which are P4's without GPU's. I would by 2 more rigs with 5000 series cards if they could be switched with the older boxes without costing me more in electric. Any suggestions to this would be appreciated. This could be done in a new thread.

Groundhog@SETI.USA
11-27-10, 10:04 PM
Here's my definition of #1.

Crunch what you want when you want without pressure from team mates. It should be enjoyable for all.

Heavy hitters are pressured most of all. Just because they are the majority of credits on any given projects, doesn't oblige them to be the team saviors. They don't owe me anything or anyone else.

That's the kind of team I want to be on. I suspect that's the kind of team the majority of team mates that never visit the board want to be on.

Make it enjoyable for enough people and maybe we'll have the retention of members that we need to be No.1 overall. I mean that as a bonus not an objective.


Sad to see a solid member go.

My philosophy is. "crunch your own crunch"

its your computers, its your electric bill.. Crunch what perks your interest.

is it nice to have everyone on the same project/pages for team goals? Absolutely.. but at the same time, every credit crunched is still under the flag of Seti USA

Hopefully he will return if something we do perks his interest again.

I guess I've been negligent in keeping up with what has been going on with the team for a while. I had noticed that there was some disagreements but I fall into the category of only checking the boards occasionally. When the newsletters or emails came asking for help on the project of the month, I tried to run that for a while. I started with the original SETI and still like to put at least some resources with them, though not as much as before. My impression of the team was a way to combine credit on any or all of the projects on Boinc to get as high a total as possible, hopefully ahead of all of the other teams. I never realized that we were supposed to only crunch the projects that someone else dictated. I never felt pressured, but I never have had a large number of systems to put me in the top numbers of workunits. I think the above quotes sum up how I feel. Crunch whatever you want under the banner of the SETI.USA team. Every unit of credit helps.

Richard

Maxwell
11-28-10, 03:23 AM
Ok. I'm (obviously) on the crunch what you want bandwagon. I'm deliberately not saying what I'd like the team goals to be because I largely don't care. I'm going to do my own thing regardless. My credits can go to the team, or they can not.

I'm active on the forums because I like the social aspect to it, finding people with common interests, and people to just shoot the breeze with. If I didn't enjoy being on the boards, I wouldn't be here. My two cents.

Fire$torm
11-28-10, 04:39 AM
OK, maybe its the beer but I'm a little miffed. Nowhere did I state a "must do this or must do that". How does one miss terms like "friendly suggestion" or "here are some of the possible ways"? I have reread this thread and not a single post by anyone says anything like "do this or else." The whole point of my posts at least, has been to generate discussion for a revised set of "SUGGESTIONS" for those who would be "WILLING". Nothing more. No Commandments. No Kamikaze death orders. No pack of lemmings driven over the cliff. (Or is that pigs over the cliff? I get those confused...)

When this team first came into being crunching on a video card was pure science fiction or nearly so. And since its formation some projects have gone bye bye and new ones have taken up residence. There are more teams and a hell of a lot more participants. It would be good for this team to reconcile the past and align itself to the future.

Please lets do "Something"!!! Change is inevitable.

So RL has turned our rose bush into a lemon tree. Great! Time to make lemonade. If all we do is bicker, then this team will fail, utterly.

Dr. Dan
11-28-10, 05:20 AM
Hi Guys,

Just some food for thought about the good old days, and today..:D

I have seen many come and go from team to team looking for many different things in a team.

What your team had offered me for a good long time was the fun of doing a stomp. Several of us would do strategies on how to out smart the other teams and push them where we wanted them.

It also gave me the option to sit a stomp out and just crunch what I wanted to crunch.

We had folks who would go to each project and talk to many folks and advertise our team.

We went to different teams and talked to there folks and some would follow us to our home team.

As some of you have stated you want to crunch what you like and when you like. That's cool and as it should be, but one thing is really apparent to me right now is that you are lacking the aggressive side of this team. The folks like Kevin and myself who just love to be very aggressive in our directions.

As I see it from an outsiders view point, is you need to internally divide the team up into 6 parts in your thinking.

1. An area on the team for the aggressive.

2. An area for those who love to follow some ones lead.

3. An area for those who are not so aggressive who just want to be a part of this team and just crunch their own projects.

4. Folks who will go to other teams and talk to them and see who they are and strike up a relationship of gabbing.

5. Some folks who will go out and pick fights with other teams to get the juices going.

6. Folks who will keep posting the team info in the project team recruit areas.

This all may seem crazy but it worked before why not now?

The only thing that I see going on from my view point is item number 3. Its a good item but the rest is also important.

Well have a great weekend and see you guys soon.

DD,

trigggl
11-28-10, 09:23 AM
OK, maybe its the beer but I'm a little miffed. Nowhere did I state a "must do this or must do that". How does one miss terms like "friendly suggestion" or "here are some of the possible ways"? I have reread this thread and not a single post by anyone says anything like "do this or else." The whole point of my posts at least, has been to generate discussion for a revised set of "SUGGESTIONS" for those who would be "WILLING". Nothing more. No Commandments. No Kamikaze death orders. No pack of lemmings driven over the cliff. (Or is that pigs over the cliff? I get those confused...)

When this team first came into being crunching on a video card was pure science fiction or nearly so. And since its formation some projects have gone bye bye and new ones have taken up residence. There are more teams and a hell of a lot more participants. It would be good for this team to reconcile the past and align itself to the future.

Please lets do "Something"!!! Change is inevitable.

So RL has turned our rose bush into a lemon tree. Great! Time to make lemonade. If all we do is bicker, then this team will fail, utterly.

Fire$torm, I'm not directing anything toward you or what you said. The original topic was Crunch3r leaving. From what I can tell, first, he really hates this new board, and second, he doesn't feel there's enough people here who care whether we are first overall in the world.

I get the impression and not necessarily from this thread, that there are too many people who are unhappy with us crunching anything but AQUA, DNETC and other highest paying projects. For instance when a lot of the team were doing the 2 week long Primegrid challenge there was some of that.

When I say crunch what you want when you want, that includes all the things that DD listed. Maybe someone wants to follow what the team is doing all the time or maybe they want to do it half the time. Maybe someone cares about nothing but all out credits. There might even be people out there who wonder why we even have credits and just care about the science.

If we are going to have a discussion about team objectives, it should probably be in its own thread and not this one. :-$

DrPop
11-28-10, 02:08 PM
Fair enough. I will start a team objective thread since no one else has yet. Please join in. I am on vacation so I don't know how timely my responses will be, but I cannot miss this discussion. It is the most important one we have or will have had for the future of this team.

STMahlberg
11-28-10, 02:42 PM
I just started reading this thread and I am sorry to hear that Crunch3r is leaving; it is very unfortunate to lose people, change can be difficult. I hope that perhaps he will change his mind and return but he must do what he feels he must.

Personally I will admit that some of the happenings on this Team in the past several months have been very trying amongst dealing with real life as well; there have been times that I have had to step back and reevaluate my goals and desires as far as my contributions here. As I have said before, I started crunching BOINC for the science; what I may not have said, is that I joined this Team because I wanted to be part of something great and I know that I am.

I love our motto, “Together we will accomplish something amazing!” And I believe in our motto because we can and will. From what I have read the original Team hit their goal of being #1 in SETI in 10 months… that’s amazing and perhaps that’s part of the problem as well. Not all things occur quickly, people want instant results and that is just not the way of things.

We are going through a metamorphosis per se and we are having growing pains; we are all human and the problems with humans is that we ALL have our quirks and with that can come disagreements, flared tempers, and hurt feelings. The board has changed, the administrators have changed, and our ranking in position has changed… and no one likes change because we are comfortable with familiarity.

I believe we need time in order to become comfortable once again with what has changed and to settle into our roles on this Team and we need time to grow again to increase our membership.

Someone said something about us no longer being #1 and that too many people don’t care about being at the top; I think that many here do want to be #1; I for one would like this Team to be #1 but not at all costs.

I am relatively new here and most of you know this; I know nothing of crunching strategy or what needs to be done in order to be #1 once again... but I do know this much, we do have a problem with the current numbers we have.

We have lost touch with ~93% of our member base from the old board; this occurred prior to the new board changes. As of this post we have 157 members on this board; according to BOINC Stats, 1309 member are crunching… that means ~12% of our members actually know what’s happening on the Team and what we are doing.

I can’t possibly be the only one who sees a problem with this… no matter how you slice it; we cannot obtain a #1 position with these numbers. We MUST grow this Team… we are NOT a sinking ship; we simply need more crew members.

I’m a Steelers and a Dallas Cowboys fan and I’m not going to dump either of them just because the Steelers don’t win the Super Bowl every year or Dallas just happen to suck this year anymore than I’m going to dump SETI.USA just because we’re not #1 at the moment.

Just my two cents…

Mr. Hankey
11-28-10, 11:47 PM
Crunch3r told me as much via PM on the old forums that when they (old forums) went away so would his support for the team. That was a day or two before thanksgiving.

Fire$torm
11-29-10, 09:49 AM
Fire$torm, I'm not directing anything toward you or what you said.

Sorry triggl, I should have been more specific. My Apologies. I got pulled off my square by the following:

I guess I've been negligent in keeping up....... I never realized that we were supposed to only crunch the projects that someone else dictated......

[EOL] ......Elvis has left the building.

Groundhog@SETI.USA
11-29-10, 12:58 PM
Sorry triggl, I should have been more specific. My Apologies. I got pulled off my square by the following:


[EOL] ......Elvis has left the building.

Well, after reading the first 4 pages, that is the impression I was getting. And I felt it is a contradiction to welcome help from people on other teams for challenges, but talk about dropping our team members who occasionally crunch for some other team. Not a very welcoming reception. I don't know the politics that have been going on but would like to stay with the team. I got the email about voting for new admins and had heard that some people had left but I didn't worry too much about it. Maybe I don't have a killer instinct but do want to contribute what I can with the limited resources I have. I like to help out on challenges but I also have a few projects I like to support.

DrPop
11-29-10, 01:16 PM
No one is dropping any body. We need every single point we can get from ANYONE who wants to contribute to the total. Obviously, I would encourage anyone to crunch "high paying projects", but the honest truth is this: one PC or a Cray Super Computer, I don't care what you own or what you crunch. We need you and thank you for staying with the team. Please consider inviting friends and family to join our cause.
Sincerely,
Pop

Fire$torm
11-29-10, 02:54 PM
Well, after reading the first 4 pages, that is the impression I was getting...... I like to help out on challenges but I also have a few projects I like to support.

Dude, this is an American team. As far as I am concerned, its your hardware, your money and your time. Crunch whatever you want. Helping out on challenges would be greatly appreciated. If you want to crunch projects that we are in danger of losing position in, then by all means go for it. Do you have one or more favorite projects? Good, crunch those.

The problem (within this team) In my not so humble opinion is that there are some who do not like certain projects or how others measure success and so show disdain. This gives the impression that one MOST do this and crunch that.

I say Nay Nay.

And for the L337 of mind let me say this, you almost lost another team member. Me. Frankly one of few reasons I'm still here is my obligation (As I see it) to those who have helped me with their donations for Keithinator, Blackie and Seven of Nine. The other factor (of equal weight) that I will speak on is the friendship and comradery with a few of the team.

With all the... stuff that has been posted of late...

Well, I'll stop here. But only to honor my word to a comrade.

Spankinmonkee
11-29-10, 04:54 PM
Just do what I do...run the project YOU want to run. I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing...lol...I say this being very open. I'm like slicker and like the projects that pay the most credits. As for me when I read the forums...its taken with a grain of salt.

Its all about havin fun....but thats me.

My post is in no way meant to offend anyone that has posted in this thread :p

Teratoma
11-29-10, 08:43 PM
First let me wish Crunch3r all the best. He has not only been a major contributer to this team, but to the entire DC community IMHO. One of the major reasons I joined this team was the way some members defended him when he was being bashed at S@H for his optimized code. Eventhough he was not a member of this team, the team defended him which did not add to the team's popularity. We were there for him. We had his back. It saddens me to know that he does not feel that from us now. And perhaps he is right to feel that way. We are not the same team we were then. Some of what Dr. Dan posted is so very true, but returning to the old ways is not always so simple or even possible. Things change. People change. Cultures evolve (and not always in a positive way). I wish I was smart enough to put things back to the way they were. Maybe I will be someday...

Second, I believe it has been posted that #1 in S@H is our primary goal. That is correct. There is some conjecture regarding gaol #2, 3, 4, etc. I know that there is another thread regarding this topic, and I will join that discussion as soon as I can. For now, I will state without reservation that goal #2 is to regain and hold #1 in overall BOINC credit. I will have to discuss this with Mr. Hankey, buit I think we should make that our #1 goal officially. I know, it seems pretty obvious, but it needs to be stated.

One of the things that changed from back when we were a younger team is where we rank. Back then we were "small fish in a big pond" or something like that. ( that is how we got the goldfish as an unofficial mascot) We only had one place to go....UP. Fighting for #1 is a hell of a lot different than Defending #1. Clearly we failed at defending it. We changed the game on the rest of the BOINC world back then....and then the game changed on us and we did not adapt fast enough. We still need to adapt.

So now that we are free of thinking defensively, we need to think aggressively. We need to find a new way to stomp. Directly attacking #1 & #2 may not be the best approach to our long term success....unless someone hits the lottery. We need to generate some excitement about SETI.USA. Simply crunching the best paying projects ain't gonna do that. I don't have the answers now, but this is just some food for thought. I will try to expand on this some more in the other thread.

NJCaNS
01-10-11, 01:03 AM
Where's a link that shows the comings and goings of team members? I suspect someone in the top 60 has detached from Rosetta and now Einstein.

Crazybob
01-10-11, 09:32 AM
Free-DC only lists the new members, the site that listed both, I think is gone. Not sure who would have left?

zombie67
01-10-11, 09:56 AM
Where's a link that shows the comings and goings of team members? I suspect someone in the top 60 has detached from Rosetta and now Einstein.

(scroll down to the bottom of each page)

Combined: http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=bo&id=7e7fffdfa3f6eae66aede7f91c9a21c9

Rosetta: http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=rosetta&id=6
Einstein: http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=einstein&id=3737

Bok
01-10-11, 06:59 PM
Actually I list both...

Movement from/to in Einstein (http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=movement&proj=eah&team=3737)

hmm, not sure why I don't list both from/to in the [url=http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=teammovement&team=SETI.USA]overall team though[url]. I do hold the data.

I'll fix that tomorrow perhaps. Had surgery today, so not feeling too good..Potential icestorm on the way too here in NC.

NJCaNS
01-11-11, 03:17 AM
(scroll down to the bottom of each page)

Combined: http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=bo&id=7e7fffdfa3f6eae66aede7f91c9a21c9

Rosetta: http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=rosetta&id=6
Einstein: http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=einstein&id=3737Thanks Z. Now that we know, are we surprised? Just returning to there normal team or was this a new loss?

NOTE: this was my 100th post.

trigggl
01-12-11, 07:30 AM
Thanks Z. Now that we know, are we surprised? Just returning to there normal team or was this a new loss?

NOTE: this was my 100th post.

I think he came from the Killer Frogs and Congrats.

There's been some back and forth, so I don't know if it's permanent or not.

NJCaNS
01-14-11, 11:08 PM
Noticed a significant hit to the team's RAC the last two days. I think it was from PG too. I suspect it was due to

2011-01-13 Sitarow 224,851,416.23 Sicituradastra.

This could get a bit annoying the way they suck up (and try to suck up) the bigger crunchers off other teams.

Interesting team movements too.
http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=bo&id=a46d60ce3cf44cf6661f00549568627d

Fire$torm
01-14-11, 11:40 PM
Noticed a significant hit to the team's RAC the last two days. I think it was from PG too. I suspect it was due to

2011-01-13 Sitarow 224,851,416.23 Sicituradastra.

This could get a bit annoying the way they suck up (and try to suck up) the bigger crunchers off other teams.

Interesting team movements too.
http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=bo&id=a46d60ce3cf44cf6661f00549568627d

+1 on the annoying thing. But to be fair I do not think Sitarow was committed to SUSA having joined to help out with the PG challenge.

I am curious though. What exactly is Sic offering crunchers to get them to join their team? I know Moon has a pretty Avatar but that cannot be the whole of it?

STMahlberg
01-14-11, 11:48 PM
... I am curious though. What exactly is Sic offering crunchers to get them to join their team? I know Moon has a pretty Avatar but that cannot be the whole of it?
She is kind of pretty... for a girl... if you're into that sort of thing.

Edit:

P.S. Make sure everyone takes an extra supplement of saltpeter with their meals.

Zytozux
01-15-11, 12:03 AM
Their team is way glittery man, it looks like a 14 yr old girl's myspace over there. I will say that if Megan Fox ever starts a BOINC team i'd join instantly, sorry guys.

zombie67
01-15-11, 12:35 AM
Right. This is dead simple. Someone create a 2nd ID here as a...whatchamacallit...girl. Hot avatar and all that. Assume leadership. Posting occasional pictures of "yourself". All the rest is gravy. =))

Edit: Oh! Change our name to SEXI.USA!

Mike029
01-15-11, 11:56 AM
I also think that she and others actively recruit large crunchers. PM them, chat with them. Keep in touch with them. Send a "Hey hows it going?" once or twice a week thing. I'm sure most of us have had someone from Sic reach out to us. I have. Seem like nice people with a very active leader. They won't let you on their boards unless you switch over to them and become a member. No visitors. Unless your a huge cruncher then perhaps that changes.

Fire$torm
01-15-11, 12:51 PM
I just noticed some yahoo stole my name and went to another team.

2010-12-24 - Firestorm - 1,598.02 - LIFE HUNTERS

The nerve!!!! Why I oughta.........

Fire$torm
01-15-11, 12:55 PM
Actually I list both...

Movement from/to in Einstein (http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=movement&proj=eah&team=3737)

hmm, not sure why I don't list both from/to in the [url=http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=teammovement&team=SETI.USA]overall team though[url]. I do hold the data.

I'll fix that tomorrow perhaps. Had surgery today, so not feeling too good..Potential icestorm on the way too here in NC.
I missed this post. Apologies. I hope your feeling better. If your not married or attached, your post surgery state is a good way to attract eligible women :P

NJCaNS
01-15-11, 01:06 PM
I just noticed some yahoo stole my name and went to another team.

2010-12-24 - Firestorm - 1,598.02 - LIFE HUNTERS

The nerve!!!! Why I oughta.........Don't you read the papers(virtual and real)? Identity Theft is in the rise.:)

Zytozux
01-15-11, 01:34 PM
I think it's your Doppelganger and he's out there hunting you now.

DrPop
01-15-11, 01:35 PM
Huh. Just catching up on this thread. Our team does lack some serious sex appeal compared to the competition. And, we know that in the U.S.A. sex sells, because our puritanical base & political base both have this love/hate fascination with sex, so...doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. Especially if other teams have the same M/F ratio we have.

My question is, WHERE are all the ladies? That is a serious question. You might think something like DC is for nerds. We've progressed far beyond that as a society - most young ladies know way more about computers than anyone gives them credit for. And...they are very interested in doing good, giving back to society, etc. We should see a bunch more here. Of course, that would take some advertising! :D

I really don't know where to go from here with it. Our team is like the "Good Ol' Boys" club and that might not appeal to the masses any longer.

Fire$torm
01-15-11, 02:05 PM
Huh. Just catching up on this thread. Our team does lack some serious sex appeal compared to the competition. And, we know that in the U.S.A. sex sells, because our puritanical base & political base both have this love/hate fascination with sex, so...doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's going on. Especially if other teams have the same M/F ratio we have.

My question is, WHERE are all the ladies? That is a serious question. You might think something like DC is for nerds. We've progressed far beyond that as a society - most young ladies know way more about computers than anyone gives them credit for. And...they are very interested in doing good, giving back to society, etc. We should see a bunch more here. Of course, that would take some advertising! :D

I really don't know where to go from here with it. Our team is like the "Good Ol' Boys" club and that might not appeal to the masses any longer.
I was about to post and say "Well, then its time to actively recruit all our lady friends or wives lady friends." Then I realized that in my case, NONE of them know diddly about computers or tech in general. I also realized the same applies to most of my male friends...
I hate to admit it but most of the people I know never learned how to set the clocks on their VCR's!!! Though many have college degrees, when it comes to technology, any tech post touch tone dialing, there is this HUGE chasm in their intelligence. So I cannot add to the sex appeal quotient.

NJCaNS
01-15-11, 04:25 PM
You'd think that Girls with Guns thread would help, wouldn't you? :@)

Maybe we should "beef" up the Boys with Guns post a little bit. o-+

SEX SELLS ~:>@};-:bz

Zytozux
01-15-11, 07:59 PM
Hello there ladies...
http://dlisted.com/files/august2009-thumb.jpg

Crazybob
01-15-11, 08:18 PM
:D:rolleyes::D:o:eek::p:mad::);)

zombie67
01-15-11, 08:39 PM
I'm blind!!!!
:cool:

joker
01-15-11, 09:30 PM
That is just plain wrong!

DrPop
01-15-11, 10:54 PM
Oh man...I think I'm gonna hurl... :pX_X=))

Maxwell
01-15-11, 11:05 PM
Hello there ladies...
I think it's really inappropriate to post pictures of me without my permission... ;)

trigggl
01-16-11, 12:32 AM
I also think that she and others actively recruit large crunchers. PM them, chat with them. Keep in touch with them. Send a "Hey hows it going?" once or twice a week thing. I'm sure most of us have had someone from Sic reach out to us. I have. Seem like nice people with a very active leader. They won't let you on their boards unless you switch over to them and become a member. No visitors. Unless your a huge cruncher then perhaps that changes.

I guess I don't produce enough credits. In spite of my various UotD's, no love from Sic.

Harley
01-16-11, 12:45 AM
I also think that she and others actively recruit large crunchers. PM them, chat with them. Keep in touch with them. Send a "Hey hows it going?" once or twice a week thing. I'm sure most of us have had someone from Sic reach out to us. I have. Seem like nice people with a very active leader. They won't let you on their boards unless you switch over to them and become a member. No visitors. Unless your a huge cruncher then perhaps that changes.




They've reached out to me too.

STMahlberg
01-16-11, 07:43 AM
Hello there ladies...
http://dlisted.com/files/august2009-thumb.jpg

Damn... Talk about things you can't unsee.

DrPop
01-16-11, 07:27 PM
They've reached out to me in the past as well. But were gently shrugged off.

BTW, STM - did you really have to repost that photo again?!! :D :))

STMahlberg
01-16-11, 07:33 PM
They've reached out to me in the past as well. But were gently shrugged off.

BTW, STM - did you really have to repost that photo again?!! :D :))

Sorry. Here's a palette cleanser. All better? :)

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8960/cutepuppy.jpg

Maxwell
01-16-11, 08:47 PM
Sorry. Here's a palette cleanser. All better? :)
Ah yes. I'm no longer hungry...;)

Crazybob
01-17-11, 01:54 PM
Sic, never reached out to me. I guess my credits don't count either. She don't know what she's missing. I could tease the heck out of her!:cool:

trigggl
01-17-11, 05:25 PM
Sic, never reached out to me. I guess my credits don't count either. She don't know what she's missing. I could tease the heck out of her!:cool:

I wonder if she's from Arizona and how she's handling the shooting.

Beerdrinker
01-18-11, 11:35 AM
We just lost Sitarow to Sic....

They gonna be the next top team, if that trend holds....

Crazybob
01-18-11, 11:56 AM
That blows. Did he(she) ever post on the boards? Don't recall ever seeing that user name on the boards. There goes 5 Mil/day.:-&

STMahlberg
01-18-11, 12:01 PM
We just lost Sitarow to Sic....

They gonna be the next top team, if that trend holds....

I saw a post earlier about what is She offering those that are leaving... Perhaps she offers them "direction".

Beerdrinker
01-18-11, 12:47 PM
I saw a post earlier about what is She offering those that are leaving... Perhaps she offers them "direction".

Maybe I were a tad to quick with that statement..

Boincstats shows him leaving:

http://boincstats.com/stats/team_member_movement.php?pr=bo&id=7e7fffdfa3f6eae66aede7f91c9a21c9
But not joining again...

But still he shows up our PG team:

http://www.primegrid.com/team_members.php?teamid=189&offset=0&sort_by=expavg_credit


His DCNET credits is going towards Sic though:
http://www.dnetc.net/team_members.php?teamid=40&offset=0&sort_by=expavg_credit