Team Objectives [Archive] - SETI.USA Forums

DrPop

11-28-10, 02:16 PM

As requested by another member, I am starting a dedicated discussion of team objectives here. To pick up where we left off, a quote from Dr. Dan:

As some of you have stated you want to crunch what you like and when you like. That's cool and as it should be, but one thing is really apparent to me right now is that you are lacking the aggressive side of this team. The folks like Kevin and myself who just love to be very aggressive in our directions.

As I see it from an outsiders view point, is you need to internally divide the team up into 6 parts in your thinking.

1. An area on the team for the aggressive.

2. An area for those who love to follow some ones lead.

3. An area for those who are not so aggressive who just want to be a part of this team and just crunch their own projects.

4. Folks who will go to other teams and talk to them and see who they are and strike up a relationship of gabbing.

5. Some folks who will go out and pick fights with other teams to get the juices going.

6. Folks who will keep posting the team info in the project team recruit areas.

This all may seem crazy but it worked before why not now?

The only thing that I see going on from my view point is item number 3. Its a good item but the rest is also important.

Much to stimulate all of our frontal lobes there.
My answer to some of this, is precisely why we started the "Bash Brothers" group. Honestly, we can call it something different if the objectives for the group change, but I think the Bash Bro's group answers items: 1, 2, and 5. (If you don't believe #5, check out QMC and how we stocked the fire over at P3DN!)

The general team just showing up answers item 3.

That leaves us to decide if we want to address items 4 and 6 somehow - which would probably fall under "recruiting" efforts (which we all know and understand has been lacking for at least a year) No surprises here, I'm thinking.

Looking forward to the discussion and everyone's input. Don't hold back - everyone's opinion is valid.

trigggl

11-28-10, 02:26 PM

Something that occured to me earlier today, is, since our strength is not the GPU, perhaps we, as a team, should focus more on being number 1 in projects that don't have GPU apps. Granted, we still want to get GPU's when able and do what we can there, but focus our CPU efforts to projects that don't have a GPU app.

When it comes to my GPU, I go where the credits are best, but my CPU goes towards MM's. Until we have the horsepower to actually shoot for No.1 overall, I think it would be more fun to go for obtainable goals.

Beerdrinker

11-28-10, 03:32 PM

When it comes to my GPU, I go where the credits are best, but my CPU goes towards MM's. Until we have the horsepower to actually shoot for No.1 overall, I think it would be more fun to go for obtainable goals.

I could not agree more.

Let´s keep the GPU´s busy, so we don´t fall to much behind creditwise....And then let our AWESOME CPU power get down and dirty with some nice figths!!

I say we come up with a 3 strike plan on how to stir up LAF and SG domination, based on CPU power. Lets pick 3 projects that do only CPU, and we will see what kind of determination LAF and SG really have. If they defend - clearly it matters to them...And if not........\m/

vaio

11-28-10, 04:38 PM

I could not agree more.

Lets pick 3 projects that do only CPU, and we will see what kind of determination LAF and SG really have. If they defend - clearly it matters to them...And if not........\m/

Why stir up the enemy?

You yanks never heard of subtlety and stealth? :p

Maxwell

11-28-10, 05:53 PM

Why stir up the enemy?

You yanks never heard of subtlety and stealth? :p
Did you hear our Iraqi campaign? "Shock and Awe"...:D

vaio

11-28-10, 06:48 PM

No comment......not the place for politics.:p

trigggl

11-28-10, 07:58 PM

No comment......not the place for politics.:p
Not the place for non-team members either. **==

vaio

11-28-10, 11:31 PM

Dear dear.....bit of an attitude there.

Check Primegrid sir!

DrPop

11-28-10, 11:45 PM

Unfortunately my Internet time is probably going to be limited to once / day from here until Thurs when I get back to the office.

For what it's worth, I don't see any problem with stating boldly our team objectives. #1 is obvious: To be #1 in SETI@Home.
#2 could easily be "strive to attain #1 overall BOINC team score". Now, before anyone gets up in arms about this, please realize something: every single cruncher who is contributing their points to the team's daily total IS WORKING toward this goal. It doesn't matter if he/she is a MM cruncher or a "maximum points" cruncher, or even just a "set it and forget it" cruncher. If their points are going toward our team total, they are helping achieve goal #2 simply by joining the team.
I do think by spelling it out, though, that it gives those of us who want to be more aggressive about this, a little more to gun for, and a reason to do it.
Let's face it, no one wants to be part of a team without clear, well thought out, measurable goals.

I'm not saying we need to stop at goal #1 or #2 either. We can have an entire list. But, that list should be on the "about us" page that someone reads before they click "Join This Team" to be a part of SETI.USA. That way, we only attract those people that will stay for the long haul because they knew what our team stood for, and etc, before they jumped in!
Seems pretty simple to me...we just have to come to a consensus and then edit a few paragraphs of text.

NJCaNS

11-29-10, 02:21 AM

Not the place for non-team members either. **==
=))

I nominate Trigggl for the stirring up trouble group, Group #5.

Vaio, don't be offended by my smilie, it was just such a quick and pointed response from Trig that I laughed out load knowing it confirmed our lack of subtlety. Please laugh along with us.

This and the other related threads recently will require some reading and thought before responding by me. But until then, and I hate to admit it, DD is basically right (means I basically agree with him) that the team has to make room and options for all types of crunchers including kick-ass, Type A, credit ho's. :-) but also the crunch for fun, one PC and no GPU folks. All have to feel equally at home. The USA is a very diverse population of people/crunchers and this team needs to reflect this. And realize that most participants are not active in reading these boards but are still willing to crunch along for SUSA.

And yes, the Bash Bro's need a different name: I'm thinking Marines, Delta Force, SUSA-eals, etc. with an avatar of Chuck Norris or something that says >:/.

This reminds me I need to do something about the tootie-fruity color scheme here. :D Excuse me while I go out and kick a puppie or something. :)

trigggl

11-29-10, 06:54 AM

=))

I nominate Trigggl for the stirring up trouble group, Group #5.
I was trying to keep my response short so we could get back on topic. I don't know why people think I'm abrasive. [-(

Slicker

11-29-10, 09:43 AM

Let´s keep the GPU´s busy, so we don´t fall to much behind creditwise.

Looked at the stats lately? We aren't falling behind. We are getting our asses kicked!
http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_compare_credits_teams_4;5;15755.gif

Are 500 million credits behind too much? That's the lead LAF has right now. Every day they rack up 10 million more credits in GPUs than we do. That's almost 50% more credit per day!

It sounds to me like the team has given up on regaining #1 in overall BOINC and has decided that #3 is good enough so long as we get a bunch of #1's in CPU projects. Is that our new goal? If so, make it formal and post it on our home page and change the text on all the project's team pages to state the new goal.

If not, then think about this. Of the 20 million credits we each day, 85% come from GPU projects. As kevint said two years ago, it is time to either get on the GPU bandwagon or tuck our tails and slither off to hide. Can CPUs make up for it? Partially, but even on AQUA a $7000 computer only makes 60K per day, about the same as a $100 GPU.

It is cyber Monday, so maybe today is a good day to find a deal and order some GPUs. I certainly don't want the chaffing from walking around with my tail between my legs. :)

thepossum1

11-29-10, 09:59 AM

hahaha chafing, tail between legs---I'm thinking more about those HUGE handprints on our butts where we're getting royally spanked! Dayum.

OK, I guess this is where I need to get up to speed on just what all this GPU stuff is about! Naturally, I'm clueless, but I like the sound of MORE MORE MORE and spanking a little butt ourselves.

OK here's where I go nostalgic---I remember back in the day....... there seemed to be nothing more fun than picking a few fights---ones we had a chance of winning. That was part of the rush. We don't have some of the heavy hitters we used to have, so we definitely need to come up with a plan to maximize what we CAN do.

Sorry--I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about Seti these days. Stopped crunching it back when there was such a big hullabaloo on the MB over there. Left in protest and never looked back. BUT I would be willing if it was worth it. Yes, it's what got this team started so I still have a soft spot for it.......somewhere.
As for useful solutions for our predicament, I'm afraid I don't have any right now. I do have to agree with Dr. Dan also --we need to have room for all different types of crunchers and they need to feel like they are wanted & needed. Hard road to walk--since by trying to appeal to all, we pi$$ off some.

Dorsilfin

11-29-10, 10:28 AM

I think this all relys on us recruiting and being big. The other big contenders seem to have more communication and more people from their country rallying to them.

We have all kinds of USA Teams.. Military, colleges etc etc etc.. If we could pool them all under 1 team.. It would be #1 with ease.

However we have never found a way to make that happen.

As far as Seti @ home goes, we are eventually going to fall behind and never be able to keep up... http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/team_display.php?teamid=138578 the GPU Users Group if they keep up will eventually pass us with a fraction of the people we have simply because they are using GPU's

I like to crunch my own crunch, and have in the past joined in on team rallies, but more so when an email went out reminding or rallying the troops or as I recall the Seti USA news letter.

At the end of the day Communication and recruitment are the 2 keys to victory across the board.

A way to keep in touch with all team members across all projects should be a #1 priority and 2ndly look to keep recruiting and seeking ways to have USA bound teams merge into Seti USA or at the end of the day maybe a new team should be formed.

Team USA across all projects which would rally people as "Seti.USA" Implies Seti @ home and not a broad USA based team.

*Shrug* Food for thought.

Beerdrinker

11-29-10, 10:28 AM

Looked at the stats lately? We aren't falling behind. We are getting our asses kicked!
http://boincstats.com/charts/chart_uk_bo_compare_credits_teams_4;5;15755.gif

I were just being polite.....I think that all of us here knows that we are getting our collective butt handed to us....But just to point out what I mean:

http://www.primegrid.com/hosts_user.php?userid=73484

This is a fairly new guy on our PG team...He has 2 CUDA cards. 1 x GTX260 and 1x GTX 460
His GPU´s are making lots of errors..So he has a RAC at 7-8.000 even running CUDA WU....That´s insane...He could be doing 100.000+ even running only 8-9 hours per day!!

Slicker

11-29-10, 12:33 PM

I were just being polite.....I think that all of us here knows that we are getting our collective butt handed to us....But just to point out what I mean:

http://www.primegrid.com/hosts_user.php?userid=73484

This is a fairly new guy on our PG team...He has 2 CUDA cards. 1 x GTX260 and 1x GTX 460
His GPU´s are making lots of errors..So he has a RAC at 7-8.000 even running CUDA WU....That´s insane...He could be doing 100.000+ even running only 8-9 hours per day!!

Nice catch. I sent him a PM with some suggestions on how to eliminate the errors as well as how to use his CUDA cards.

DrPop

11-29-10, 01:11 PM

Obviously we are getting thrashed, and it ticks me off. There is NO way we should just lay down and take this. Where is the collective #1 attitude that made the USA such a great place to begin with? Arrrrrrgggghhhh! The situation is the same in the country as it is on the team! :mad:

Dorsil - we discussed a name change briefly before - but I don't think it can be done without starting our credits over from zero. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree with you, as I think the name SETI.anything is sorely outdated these days. What's ironic, is that the team "mode", hardware, and "thinking" reflects the outdated name! This is a classic problem in any industry...every business is the same. BOINC included. Evolve or die. Period. No one, not even us, is going to escape that. Wake up people!

I agree with you Possum - I could care less about crunching SETI these days as well after some discussions with their "crew" about the outages. I don't appreciate the attitude there, and would not care to crunch it even, until there is a change in their tone.

Slicker, I don't know what else to do anymore. I'm beginning to approach the "whatever" point. Obviously, we're not making any headway with the general population of the team...I "say it", you just "showed it" and I don't know what else there is to do about it.
Somebody help. This team is quickly going to fall to a non-recoverable point as far as overall BOINC score...not because we can't make up the difference, but because the drive is gone. Where did it go? People, let's get it back!

If you go to Free-DC.org and look at output by COUNTRY, you will see that the USA is spanking every single other region, and by a HUGE margin. All we need is more of the group on board with our clan. But to do that, we have to make this an energetic, friendly, goal-oriented, butt-kicking place, and then that will attract them out of principle! How do you think this team got "big" in the first place? Once that drive was gone (about a year ago, +/-), the team started to disintegrate.
It's how the Universe works. Let's harness that power and use it, instead of letting it destroy us further.

Now I'm off to go enjoy one of my last couple days of vacation. I hope I can check back in later tonight and see what exciting ideas you all came up with.

Dorsilfin

11-29-10, 01:23 PM

Dorsil - we discussed a name change briefly before - but I don't think it can be done without starting our credits over from zero. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree with you, as I think the name SETI.anything is sorely outdated these days. What's ironic, is that the team "mode", hardware, and "thinking" reflects the outdated name! This is a classic problem in any industry...every business is the same. BOINC included. Evolve or die. Period. No one, not even us, is going to escape that. Wake up people!

No way to change without losing the credit.. but does that "Old" credit matter?

if we changed names and came out as the highest RAC in multiple projects.. new members joining and wanting to support their country would see "Insert awesome USA name here" and join up

That would at the very least get the set and forget crunchers under our banner for USA.

As far as mass communications go, I think only for call to arms or Races should mass emailings happen. this way we dont bother the set and forget people too much with emails about every day/week/month crunching business and turn them away from the team.

I joined the team because I saw it as the Number # 1 rac in seti back in the day.. I had no idea the vast amount of projects it covered until hitting the website and joining the forums.

Im content being a set and forget guy, I dont need to watch my numbers daily or be involved on a forum to be apart of the team. but I do like checking in and chatting people up once in a while. Maybe many are like me?

so maybe a "been away a while? check in here " forum where we can list the top paying projects for CPU/GPU/Operating system /Current team projects/pushes stuff like that so those who check in once in a while can find a quick catch up forum with a few posts about where we are currently and stuff like that.

just throwing some ideas about

Beerdrinker

11-29-10, 02:15 PM

Nice catch. I sent him a PM with some suggestions on how to eliminate the errors as well as how to use his CUDA cards.

Thanks.

Here is some more work if you are up to it:

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/hosts_user.php?userid=138114
GPU: GTX 260

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/hosts_user.php?userid=138122
GPU: 9800GT

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/hosts_user.php?userid=138203
GPU: GT230M

All new guys at MW on our team.

Here is one from our SETI team:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/hosts_user.php?userid=9372831
GPU: GTX 470

You want more?

Slicker

11-29-10, 02:27 PM

Changing a Team Name
Unfortunately, while everything else in the BOINC database has either an id (numeric) or a cross project id (guid), a team's only unique identifier is its name. That means that all the stats sites use the team name to identify a team and, if you change it, the stats for the old name would still appear for the old name and only the stats for the new name would appear with the changed name. Not exactly what we want. So, the only other option is getting all the projects and all the stats sites to manually rename a team all at the same time.

The other option is to get DA to add a "Display Name" field so that while the stats can all run off the original team name, the projects can display the new field which the founder would be able to modify.

That all being said, while I'm not opposed to changing our name if we could, changing the name won't make us #1. To re-take #1, we need new recruits and those recruits need to have GPUs and be willing to crunch on GPU projects.

Slicker

11-29-10, 02:54 PM

Thanks.

Here is some more work if you are up to it:

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/hosts_user.php?userid=138114
GPU: GTX 260

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/hosts_user.php?userid=138122
GPU: 9800GT

http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/hosts_user.php?userid=138203
GPU: GT230M

All new guys at MW on our team.

Here is one from our SETI team:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/hosts_user.php?userid=9372831
GPU: GTX 470

You want more?

I skipped the GT230M since the "M" means mobile and laptops may overheat when crunching with their GPUs (although I do with mine) but I did contact the others.

Maybe we should skip the "new users" thread on this board and send out a private message to each new user to their user account on the project in which they joined the team (e.g. if a user joins PG, we send him a message using the PG message board). While a little more time consuming, the personal invite to our boards here may create more active (and credit whoring) members.

Bok

11-29-10, 02:58 PM

It's a BOINC wide team correct? Can't you change the team name there and it would propagate to all the active projects?

Whilst not a member of the team as such, I'd have to agree that the optimal solution would be to drop the SETI part of the teamname.

I'd be happy to adjust all the older projects data at Free-DC, replacing the teamname, much like I do with CPID for people who ask. I'm sure Willy might do the same at Boincstats.

But I'd consider it very carefully first before you do anything.. I would also perhaps run it past the BOINC dev list or one of the other lists there and garner their opinions.

Bok

DrBob

11-29-10, 03:44 PM

...But I'd consider it very carefully first before you do anything...+1

..........

trigggl

11-29-10, 05:39 PM

There's going to be a 1000+ members thoroughly confused.

trigggl

11-29-10, 05:47 PM

Nice catch. I sent him a PM with some suggestions on how to eliminate the errors as well as how to use his CUDA cards.

I sent him a message letting him know that he needed to downgrade his nvidia driver to 256.xx. Driver 260 is what's cause wu's to crash (on cuda).

I guess we need to be scanning the new members thread for untapped GPU users.

Bok

11-29-10, 06:34 PM

I do capture and store the coproc data from the xml stats, I could easily do a query to pull this. I display it on the individual host page like here (http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=host&proj=col&hostid=38) for instance.

I could put it in other places too..

trigggl

11-29-10, 07:16 PM

BlkJack-21

11-29-10, 07:44 PM

+1

..........

+2

I am completely against a team name change. How quickly ppl forget it is the "SETI" in SETI.USA that brought us to the top. And to drop the "SETI"...well there already is a team USA so it would conjure up more confusion.

A name modification will not solve or alleviate the issues we face.

The problem that always seems to resurface is what is our goal(s) as a team? And at least until recent years, our success was originally measured by # of cobblestones. First it was to be #1 for SETI, then to be #1 for BOINC Combined. Done and Done!!!

Now that I play a more "outside" role...it seems to be clearer that the problems first occured when the decision to get as many top positions in as many projects possible. DD hit the nail on the head in another post as to what previously made us successful. Looking back I think that it also became the instable base that has lead us to our current failure. Do people remember our "QMC" battle followed by RCN intertwined with ABC and MW? See the trend? There were some that had vocalized that by achieving numerous #1s that those projects would need to be defended..spreading our resources thin.

I remember speaking w/someone privately that once we beat P3DN @ QMC I didn't feel the same of our accomplishment as others achieved previously. I didn't know exactly why at the time, but looking back it seems that trying to achieve this accomplishment created tension amongst our membership which resulted in the multiple schools of thought of our team goal(s).

The "crunch what you want" philosophy was developed and maintained early in the life of our team. However the desire to be #1 goes completely against this philosopy. In order to be #1 ppl would have to drop their preferred projects and participate in the highest paying projects.

Recruitment and effective team communication are 2 key components to our future success. We need to not concern ourselves with how many top positions we have or need to defend...

Dorsilfin

11-29-10, 07:59 PM

+2

I am completely against a team name change. How quickly ppl forget it is the "SETI" in SETI.USA that brought us to the top. And to drop the "SETI"...well there already is a team USA so it would conjure up more confusion.

A name modification will not solve or alleviate the issues we face.

The problem that always seems to resurface is what is our goal(s) as a team? And at least until recent years, our success was originally measured by # of cobblestones. First it was to be #1 for SETI, then to be #1 for BOINC Combined. Done and Done!!!

Now that I play a more "outside" role...it seems to be clearer that the problems first occured when the decision to get as many top positions in as many projects possible. DD hit the nail on the head in another post as to what previously made us successful. Looking back I think that it also became the instable base that has lead us to our current failure. Do people remember our "QMC" battle followed by RCN intertwined with ABC and MW? See the trend? There were some that had vocalized that by achieving numerous #1s that those projects would need to be defended..spreading our resources thin.

I remember speaking w/someone privately that once we beat P3DN @ QMC I didn't feel the same of our accomplishment as others achieved previously. I didn't know exactly why at the time, but looking back it seems that trying to achieve this accomplishment created tension amongst our membership which resulted in the multiple schools of thought of our team goal(s).

The "crunch what you want" philosophy was developed and maintained early in the life of our team. However the desire to be #1 goes completely against this philosopy. In order to be #1 ppl would have to drop their preferred projects and participate in the highest paying projects.

Recruitment and effective team communication are 2 key components to our future success. We need to not concern ourselves with how many top positions we have or need to defend...

The name change Idea for me was to simply try and unite the USA teams into one. Some might be reluctant to do so because of the SETI in front thats all I meant with that. I completely understand that Seti @ home and SETI.USA is was started this team .. so I see your point completely.

I think Communication would be the biggest thing possible for rallying troops for races and other odds and ends, or even Quarterly newsletters with info about the team and whats going on in the world of crunching etc etc.

zombie67

11-29-10, 08:38 PM

trigggl

11-29-10, 09:02 PM

Nice catch. I sent him a PM with some suggestions on how to eliminate the errors as well as how to use his CUDA cards.

He got his linux box (http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=user&proj=pgrid&name=73484) going.

NJCaNS

11-30-10, 02:24 AM

+2
I am completely against a team name change. How quickly ppl forget it is the "SETI" in SETI.USA that brought us to the top. And to drop the "SETI"...well there already is a team USA so it would conjure up more confusion.

A name modification will not solve or alleviate the issues we face.
+3 There are several teams still running around with SETI in their name, one of them is #2. Maybe we should have a subtitle that says "We're not just SETI anymore"?

Again a lot is being said here but the thread gets too involved and doesn't reach a conclusion to act upon or to use as guidance for the quiet visitors that come here for leadership. I'm not going to help on that front here right now because I just feel like rambling right now cause it's easier. Maybe a sub-committee to pull the best stuff in some recent posts together?*-:)

Spot comments:
While single focus objectives have worked in the past and probably could going forward, I'll admit I'm still niavely optomistic that this team can be multi-faceted and members can voluntarily join forces with others that share their particular objectives for crunching.

I don't think the team has given up on the goal of #1 in RAC and total credit. That's the real brass ring here in BOINC-land. We just happen not to be #1 for awhile now or likely will be in the next few months but I think that can change. For instance if we stopped losing people who think we gave up on that goal we wouldn't be as far from getting it back. Several people have added GPU's over the last few months and our RAC has grown by 9 million over the last few months. Additionally, our PG numbers seem to be up 4 million over over the average RAC the last few days. So staying close will make it easier to get it back (catch-up again) later. In the meantime, there are some other #1 measures we can maintain that promotes/advertises SUSA and keeps us the top USA team in the world.

We can still be a force when we pull together as is evident in the PG challenge series this year. And it is fun to screw with people/teams.

Things do change over time. The people/teams that survive adjust and make do with what they have while adapting to the changes and building back up in the environment they now find themselves in. We will adapt and survive too. Sometimes I think of this rebuilding going on now as SETI.USA V2 (the next generation or the next 10(0) billion).

And that next generation is GPU. But realize every PC has a CPU but not every PC has a GPU. We'll take what we can get, get what we can and utilize the non-GPU's where we can like crunching science for the smaller projects,

Saying communication is a problem is one thing but actually doing something about it is something else. You need people with time to spend on it (recruiting) and fact of the matter is this is just a hobby for most.

Enough rambling for now. Off to ZZZ-land. |-)

thepossum1

11-30-10, 08:41 AM

My 2¢ also says OMG no name changing unless it could be to add something like SETI.USA.(rewind) or the like. If we change the name, to me, it's like saying all that came before the recent changes doesn't mean squat.

What got us moving in the first place was Project coming up with the goal of challenging SG for #1 Seti. SG had traditionally held that position but he saw that if we all came together, we could do it. They laughed at us--called us a "goldfish in a sea of sharks". Well, we showed them, got the last laugh. Much as I hate to admit it, looks like we're back in that same position--David taking on Goliath. We CAN do it though if we all pull in the same direction.

The consolidating of other USA teams will always be difficult since who wants to start their stats over at zero? Plus lose their identity in the process? We might attract a few members from a team, but never a wholesale merge--unless, as mentioned elsewhere, there was a way to let them keep their old team name as part of the new name they crunch with. I don't know, I wouldn't do it if it was me.

We've never been able to get more than the core group active on the MB. That one is a toughy. Yes, it really helps get people fired up to do more, but I don't know how to keep them here other than make it informative and fun. We're doing that I think. I know I got freaked out when I tried coming back to the MB last time--it was in the middle of the growing pains--I had no idea what was going on & couldn't deal with it at the time. I suspect some of the others who aren't here felt the same. Yes, we need to adapt to the changing BOINC scene to thrive, but it felt so harsh back then. Felt like a stranger on my own team so to speak. BUT I never left the team. Goonies never say die :P
I still don't say die--I say MORE MORE MORE and let's get to it!!http://bestsmileys.com/cheering/7.gif

Beerdrinker

11-30-10, 09:35 AM

New member at PG with Ati 57xx GPU:

http://www.primegrid.com/show_user.php?userid=75010

DrBob

11-30-10, 10:39 AM

New member at PG with Ati 57xx GPU:

http://www.primegrid.com/show_user.php?userid=75010He apparently has PMs disabled, I see no linky.

Slicker

11-30-10, 12:04 PM

We've never been able to get more than the core group active on the MB. That one is a toughy.

When I moved into the area, I went to one church for 6 consecutive weeks and never had one person so much as say hello. I went to another that was twice as far away and within the first 10 minutes had four separate people not only say hello but actually carry on conversations. I never stepped foot in that first church again. If it works for churches....

I suggest we have one person per project who's job it is to personally welcome via PM on that project's MB each new member and encourage them to reach out for assistance or to just stop by and say hi on our team's MB. The larger projects may need a couple people. The goal would be within 24 hours to offer a personal one-to-one greeting. If you get a response, make a friendship request as a followup. My guess is that a little personal contact will get people to get more involved. I believe the movement stats are available on Free-DC on a project by project or team basis so it shouldn't take too much time.

DrPop

12-02-10, 03:29 AM

BlkJack-21

12-02-10, 03:56 AM

That's a very good place to start. Which projects do you think we should target first?
And I'm glad to see some folks come out and say they're all for us making #1 in BOINC again. I fully believe it can be done.

It is a good idea...let ppl know that we are here.

If the decision is made to welcome new members, the best choice is SETI. It is the one project that we get the most new daily members...more than all other projects combined.

And if we let ppl know that there are other projects out there...other forms of science, mathematics, and projects with GPU apps etc...it is likely that others would join up on other projects and harness those that have these GPUS and not using them.

trigggl

12-02-10, 07:06 AM

If the decision is made to welcome new members, the best choice is SETI. It is the one project that we get the most new daily members...more than all other projects combined.
Sounds like a good reason to keep SETI in the name.

I think the key is getting people to the board. Once they're active here, they will be educated in no time flat. You can't help but be productive after spending any amount of time here.

I think friendly invites would go a long way towards getting new team members active and help them feel more like they're on a team rather than just have a title next to their name. I know I felt a little awkward coming to the board the first time.

thepossum1

12-02-10, 08:44 AM

Well, this is kind of OT here, but we seem to keep going back to it--what's the deal with GPUs? I've been looking at laptops ( and desktops) and have been trying to figure out what you need to crunch on GPU.

I have gathered that it's the video card--Googled and read a few threads but don't know what you have to DO to get it to crunch.
Saw a few options I might buy as far as ATI Radeon, Nvidia--same thing, yes? Like a gaming computer would stand the best chance of having the right GPU thing, yes? Some rigs had dual, quad and one even had 6 cores--that's CPU, yes? If you have more cores, more WUs get done at a time, but this GPU thing is better if you had to choose? Or can you do both at the same time? Are there only certain projects that run on the GPU? Do you just join that project, d/l WUs and it takes over? Remember, I need idiot proof. I am planning a purchase of SOMEthng within a few days. I have to buy off the rack because I am only up to changing out fans & cleaning dustbunnies, can't fiddle with the meat & potatoes of it.

trigggl

12-02-10, 08:58 AM

Fire$torm

12-02-10, 10:07 AM

Is there a FAQ anywhere?

Not yet but I did volunteer to put one together though I haven't gotten any feedback in the FAQ Group. I can have a draft ready later today after I take my uncle to his doctor appointments. (Lots of those lately :|)

Remember, I need idiot proof. I am planning a purchase of SOMEthng within a few days. I have to buy off the rack because I am only up to changing out fans & cleaning dustbunnies, can't fiddle with the meat & potatoes of it.

If I recall your preference was for a laptop or are you also considering a desktop? Just keep in mind that laptops are harder to keep cool and harder to clean out the heatsinks inside them.

thepossum1

12-02-10, 11:03 AM

If I recall your preference was for a laptop or are you also considering a desktop? Just keep in mind that laptops are harder to keep cool and harder to clean out the heatsinks inside them.

I WANT a laptop, but am considering replacing this POS desktop--I'm running WIN2Kpro here :P Don't even think I want to think about opening/cleaning a laptop. Was planning on a chill pad for it--mostly it's so I can sit on the couch instead of being holed up in the bedroom where the desk is. I will talk to the guys who built this ancient thing and see if there is a way I can just upgrade what I have desktop-wise--if the price isn't better, I'll go all new desktop. Just want to be sure that the bucks will be worthwhile as far as crunching goes--got my priorities straight lol oh and I hate to give up my LEDs--love those case mods hahahahahaha
Almost got sucked in by an Alienware my son saw---but who's got THAT kind of money???? Well, he *might* get one, but can't swing 2---will have to make the condition that he HAS to run BOINC or I don't buy it for him muahahahaha

Thanks for the info guys :)

DrPop

12-02-10, 12:19 PM

Hmmm...well, to be honest, $ for $, a desktop is going to smoke a laptop in points per day, mainly because of the GPU (graphics card) capability. I'm not doubting your technological prowess :D but please consider running specs of any rig you're looking at by us - that way you're sure to maximize your $$$.
As an aside - you could always set BOINC to run on your son's computer only "when not in use" and he would never even see a difference in performance (disable the screensaver, of course!)
Best of luck, it's a hard decision, I understand that. There's no way we could talk your son through building one from Newegg.com parts, is there? How old is he? Mechanically inclined at all? You would save a bundle compared to an Alienware type rig and we could hook you up with loads of point generating power!
Just something to consider; I wouldn't mind sitting on the phone for a few hours with you or him, walking him through it - it's simple enough once you've done it! ;)

Fire$torm

12-02-10, 02:35 PM

I wouldn't mind sitting on the phone for a few hours with you or him, walking him through it - it's simple enough once you've done it! ;)

Doc! Time to join the 21st Century :P vi sa vi Video Conferencing/Collaborating. And for tech problems after the build there is always remote desktop :-bd

Just thought I'd throw that out there. (I'll have to remember to duck if you mistake my throw for a clay pigeon..... )

DrPop

12-02-10, 03:04 PM

Hahaha! Good call there, Mate! Hmmm...I suppose I could get with the program. [Pulls out sextant and slide rule, checks charts of Orion and the Big Dipper; scans sky for elevation of Venus and Polaris] *scratches head* 5,000 calculations later...so much...planetary progression...I seem to have lost all track of time! Is it nearly 2011 for real? :p:cool:

Alright, scratch that Possum - I'll video conference with your son on Skype or something (have to use my wife's lappy for that because it has built-in web cam) if he wants to try his hand at a build. It's a lot of fun, and would give a sense of accomplishment, too. ;)

Fire$torm

12-03-10, 03:07 AM

For anyone interested I have started working on the "BOINC Compatible GPU List" using Google Docs.
If wish to view it go here. (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqCMiOAyW0eBdHdWRDlkZ2xHeUxDQ0E1TVQtVkI3c kE&hl=en&authkey=COmlndUK) Please realize that this is just the beginning. I will be adding the newer cards later along with driver info, links, etc.

Maxwell

12-03-10, 03:54 AM

@F$: If you get that into HTML format (ideally separated by Nvidia and ATI), I'll get that in the FAQ. If you have an alternative suggestion, I'm down with that, too...

Fire$torm

12-03-10, 01:34 PM

Roger on the HTML.

Fire$torm

12-03-10, 10:51 PM

Here is the list in HTML. Let me know if the colors are too gaudy.
63

Groundhog@SETI.USA

12-04-10, 07:32 PM

We definitely need some faqs on GPU usage and projects. I have known that they could be used but have never been sure which projects to run, how to get the GPU clients, and how to find out which drivers are best. I'm sure I have one or two video cards that could be crunching. :D

There are several teams still running around with SETI in their name, one of them is #2. Maybe we should have a subtitle that says "We're not just SETI anymore"?

I think this a great idea and a quickly implemented first step. Let new people know that we want to be active in all BOINC projects.

NJCaNS

12-04-10, 11:51 PM

We definitely need some faqs on GPU usage and projects. I have known that they could be used but have never been sure which projects to run, how to get the GPU clients, and how to find out which drivers are best. I'm sure I have one or two video cards that could be crunching. :D

I think this a great idea and a quickly implemented first step. Let new people know that we want to be active in all BOINC projects.Thanks for the team support in wanting to add to our GPU crunching. I hope we can get you the information you and others need.
I'd also like to point out we've been crunching more than just SETI for over 5 years but so we can keep our original name and legacy, it doesn't hurt to inform, remind and advertise. Maybe that (We're not just SETI anymore!) would make a good signature?

Zytozux

12-05-10, 01:48 AM

SETI is still the flagship BOINC project though. It may not have the most total credit anymore, but it still has the largest amount of users by far. It is also the project where the most people start their BOINC career. We're really just getting creamed in terms of GPU power right now and I think removing seti from the name would be a mistake. (http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=seti&word2=dnetc)

I think this pic says a lot as well.
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3568/gpub.png

shiva

12-05-10, 10:16 AM

Just to make a little point, I don't remember the numbers but being close will make the point. I joined setiusa about 4 or 5 years ago with a RAC of maybe 17,000 per day and was in the top 10 or so in RAC. I think I had 17 computers running to get that RAC. Today I have 13 computers running and I have 14 ati or nvidia cards. My RAC today is almost 1.7 million and could be more if I moved my ati cards to DNETC, most are on Collatz today. I'm going for my 3rd 100 million project. 4870 cards are cheap today and can add a 100 thousand a day to your RAC. 5870 cards are getting cheaper every day and can add 300 thousand a day to your RAC. 5970 well the numbers just keep getting bigger. Granted not many will do what I do with boinc, but just adding cards to all those cpu's you have would blow the doors off of anyone out there. 1 4870 in 100 computers, you do the math. You have over 1000 computers. I think you need to talk to them, all the time. I think the leaders need to have cards, and I know lots of them do, maybe all do. I know its hard to sell if you aren't using it. Good luck and I hope to see you back on top in the future. @ possum let these guys help you through either a build or a buy, they know what they are doing. ;) well sometimes.:) oh yea I will have my 100 million on Collatz in time to move all my cards to the SETIUSA PG race later this month.

DrPop

12-05-10, 11:57 AM

True, SETI is still the most popular, but crunching it is not the way to be #1 in BOINC. Believe me, I was crunching SETI even back in the "classic" days, before BOINC even existed, and I have a soft spot for that project. However, I have a hard time throwing any resources at it these days due to the attitude of those running the project.
DNETC is a relatively new project yet. Try typing in SETI and then Milkyway into that Google fight machine. I think you'll be surprised how close the results are.

Shiva, you are correct, of course. The days of CPU crunching are numbered, and now that even a project like SETI will use them, the writing is on the wall. Once the OpenCL standard really takes off, and programmers only have to write one line of code for most GPUs to use...
...the CPU will be just a transfer station of data to and from the GPU. Looks like a few teams figured this out faster than we did. Or, at least they could afford to purchase that power before we could! :D

Zytozux

12-05-10, 12:27 PM

Looks like a few teams figured this out faster than we did. Or, at least they could afford to purchase that power before we could! :D Exactly, so we just need to figure out how to attract those GPU users into joining the team.

zombie67

12-05-10, 11:20 PM

Which brings you back to being locked into one project in order to be #1 in over all credits.

thepossum1

12-06-10, 08:01 AM

Fire$torm

12-06-10, 09:20 AM

Thanks for the GPU list Fire$torm :)

Sheesh--looks like I don't have the right one---I have ATI Mobility HD 4250 in the new lappy. But, I HAD to buy it--it was siting there $100 off!! Sony Vaio which I knew was a decent one, it called me :P

Took me forever to even find the info in here--not used to this new fangled Win 7 :rolleyes:

EDIT: thanks for the offer DrPop--son's not interested in building--he thinks BOINC is a waste--now if it had something to do with Xbox then maybe I could get him to put out the effort. He's 17 and thinks mom is crazy lol
But hey--I noticed I have webcam & Skype on here--no clue how to use them though :P and also remote capability

Congrats on the new lappy with fresh n' new tech scent :P. Laptops can be troublesome sometimes when used to crunch with their GPU. No matter, Enjoy ur nu tech.

In regards to your sons addiction to console gaming, I have the cure. A bigger addiction >:) in the form of ATI's EyeFinity Technology.
The following are all [H]ardocp (http://www.hardocp.com/) links.

Videos:
EyeFinity Overview (http://www.viddler.com/player/8f18b1a8/)
First Time Gaming Experience with ATI Eyefinity (http://cdn.static.viddler.com/flash/publisher.swf?ref=&key=c2544546)
EyeFinity 6 (2 rows of 3) (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/24/ati_radeon_5870_2gb_3x2_eyefinity_gaming_experienc e/)

Articles:
AMD's ATI Eyefinity Technology Review (http://hardocp.com/article/2009/09/28/amds_ati_eyefinity_technology_review/)
Eyefinity Challenge in Dallas, TX (http://hardocp.com/article/2009/11/19/eyefinity_challenge_in_dallas_tx/)
AMD's ATI Radeon Eyefinity Performance Review (http://hardocp.com/article/2010/01/05/amds_ati_radeon_eyefinity_performance_review/)