BOINC GPU Compatibility List

[Fire$torm]

Here is the complete list (As far as I am aware) of ATI & Nvidia cards that can be used to crunch GPU capable projects. The thumbnail graphic will open the full size image in a new tab or page.

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5817/gpulistsmall.png (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqCMiOAyW0eBdHdWRDlkZ2xHeUxDQ0E1TVQtVkI3c kE&hl=en&authkey=COmlndUK)

BOINC GPU Compatibility List is a Google Docs spreadsheet here (Link (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqCMiOAyW0eBdHdWRDlkZ2xHeUxDQ0E1TVQtVkI3c kE&hl=en&authkey=COmlndUK))
The Google spreadsheet will allow the viewer to print it or download the page in any of the following formats: HTML, OpenOffice, Excel, PDF, Text or CSV. To download click on File > Download as > [Select Format]. To print click the printer icon under the File Menu.

Here is the list of all BOINC Projects that offer GPU apps

Albert@Home (http://albert.phys.uwm.edu/) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*3)

Collatz Conjecture (http://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/apps.php) - [ATI & Nvidia]

DistrRTGen (http://boinc.freerainbowtables.com/distrrtgen/) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*2)

Donate (http://donateathome.org/) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*2)

DrugDiscovery@Home (http://boinc.drugdiscoveryathome.com/) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*2)

Einstein@home (Subproject: Arecibo Binary Pulsar Search) (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/) - [Nvidia]

GPUGrid (http://www.gpugrid.net/) - [Nvidia]

The Lattice Project (http://boinc.umiacs.umd.edu/) - [Nvidia] (*2)

MilkyWay@Home (http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*1)(*2)

Moo! Wrapper (http://moowrap.net/index.php) - [ATI & Nvidia]

Poem@Home (http://boinc.fzk.de/poem/) - [ATI] (*2)

PrimeGrid (http://www.primegrid.com/)
Sub-project: Cullen/Woodall Prime Search (Sieve) - [Nvidia]
Sub-project: Genefer - [Nvidia]
Sub-project: Genefer (World Record) - [Nvidia]
Sub-project: Proth Prime Search (Sieve) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*2)

SETI@home Beta (http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/beta/apps.php) (Enhanced) - [Nvidia] / (Astropulse) - [ATI]

World Community Grid (http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/)
Sub-Project: Help Conquer Cancer - [ATI & Nvidia]



Notes:
*1) Apps require GPUs with Double Precision (DP). Refer to GPU list for cards with DP.
*2) OpenCL apps for Nvidia require Compute Capability 1.3 or higher. OpenCL apps for ATI require HD 4xxx series cards or higher for Single Precision and HD 5xxx series cards or higher for Double Precision.
*3) BOINC 6.13.10 (and newer) is required to detect openCL capability on the host.

Please send me a PM for any additions or corrections and I will update the image and the spreadsheet when time allows.

Hope this helps.

Peace.

[bmwr606]

thank you for compiling the list.

very useful

[Mike029]

Sticky this puppy.

[Fire$torm]

Sticky this puppy.

Maxwell intends to promote this to an article so it will show on the forum homepage and link it to the FAQ.

[Maxwell]

Sticky this puppy.

Maxwell intends to promote this to an article so it will show on the forum homepage and link it to the FAQ.
Yep. I just have to get back to the other computer...

[NJCaNS]

How about including instructions/ideas for how people can tell what hey have in their current PC's?

Also what would be suggested/recommended (or still available) if one was or wanted to buy a GPU today? There was an interesting post along these lines recently that included some prices so people could tell what they were getting into and when there was a good deal.

[Fire$torm]

How about including instructions/ideas for how people can tell what hey have in their current PC's?

Also what would be suggested/recommended (or still available) if one was or wanted to buy a GPU today? There was an interesting post along these lines recently that included some prices so people could tell what they were getting into and when there was a good deal.
Good suggestions.
I have a now slightly outdated price list from the team newsletter which a will recreate with Google Docs and add the link. I will also add links to utilities for identifying and OverClocking GPUs as well as instructions. It may take me a day or two before I get it done.
Thanks for the input and keep the suggestions coming.

[Fire$torm]

Additions: Thanks to Beer for pointing out the MIA's 5670 & 5750. The graphic & Google Doc have been updated.

[Groundhog@SETI.USA]

Good to see this list. I have two cards that will work. Now I just need to know how to use them.

[Beerdrinker]

Good to see this list. I have two cards that will work. Now I just need to know how to use them.

Which cards to you have???

Give us a holler - and we will point you!!

[Groundhog@SETI.USA]

Which cards to you have???

Give us a holler - and we will point you!!

I have one system with an nVidia GF 8500 GT that I have running Aqua, QMC, SETI and PrimeGrid (usually only on PG for challenges). That card isn't double precision. I'm not sure what they mean about Compute Capability 1.3. This motherboard says it has 2 x PCI-E x 16 and 2 x PCI-E x 1. Does this mean I can add another card and run two? This is an ASUS P5K Premium.

I have another system with an ATI Radeon HD 4650 that runs MilkyWay, Seti, Rosetta and PrimeGrid (also for challenges). That card isn't double precision either.

My old XP system has a GeForce 7600 GS so it won't run any of the GPU stuff.

The second and third systems are AGP. Not much capability to expand there.

[Beerdrinker]

I have one system with an nVidia GF 8500 GT that I have running Aqua, QMC, SETI and PrimeGrid (usually only on PG for challenges). That card isn't double precision. I'm not sure what they mean about Compute Capability 1.3. This motherboard says it has 2 x PCI-E x 16 and 2 x PCI-E x 1. Does this mean I can add another card and run two? This is an ASUS P5K Premium.

I have another system with an ATI Radeon HD 4650 that runs MilkyWay, Seti, Rosetta and PrimeGrid (also for challenges). That card isn't double precision either.

My old XP system has a GeForce 7600 GS so it won't run any of the GPU stuff.

The second and third systems are AGP. Not much capability to expand there.

Well. The 4650 can do collatz for sure. I believe you will be able to do around 30-40.000 with that card. DL lastest Ati drivers and attach to Collatz. Go to your account settings and mark the box "use ati GPU if present" and UNCHECK CPU and Nvidia. You will now do Collatz WU´s on your GPU.

I guess that the 8500GT can do PG....Not much....But a good estimate would be somewhere around 7- 10.000....

[Fire$torm]

Compute Capability just refers to nVidia's form of parallel processing which is what allows their GPUs to crunch. ATI's is called Stream or Stream Computing.
CUDA is nVidia's programming language and framework for getting their GPU's. ATI abandoned their original programming language and is now pushing (Very Very hard) OpenCL as the preferred and non-proprietary (meaning free to use) programming language.

[Groundhog@SETI.USA]

Thanks guys. Any ideas about updating that ASUS with a second card?

Also, what version of BOINC should I be running? Some of the systems haven't been updated for a while and aren't on the latest version. Are there any enhanced version still available? I remember some time in the past upgrading BOINC and all uncompleted work was lost. I don't want that to happen again.

[Maxwell]

Thanks guys. Any ideas about updating that ASUS with a second card?

Also, what version of BOINC should I be running? Some of the systems haven't been updated for a while and aren't on the latest version. Are there any enhanced version still available? I remember some time in the past upgrading BOINC and all uncompleted work was lost. I don't want that to happen again.
Yeah, you can run multiple GPUs in the same machine. Just make sure they are both NVidia or both ATI, or else you're going to have a hell of a time getting it to run.

You should run 6.10.58. Newer version of BOINC actually see ATI cards, which makes crunching on them easier. It *shouldn't* kill all your WUs, but if you want, you can abort them (so the project can recycle them faster), run your machine dry, and reinstall a newer version of BOINC.

[Maxwell]

Promoted to the front page. Going to start working on the FAQ entry now...

EDIT: And now there is a FAQ entry...

[Groundhog@SETI.USA]

I don't know if I should continue this discussion but I got the nVidia card running PrimeGrid just fine but the ATI isn't working on Collatz. Every WU runs for 2 seconds and gets a computation error. In the messages, it says something about "3 consecutive failures fetching scheduler list". I'm running the latest Boinc and ATI drivers. I tried disconnecting from the project and reconnecting. Still no luck. I hate getting all of those WUs and sending them back with errors. Any suggestions or should I just try PrineGrid on that one also. If I need to, I can start a thread in the Collatz area or a thread in the Boinc area.

[Maxwell]

I don't know if I should continue this discussion but I got the nVidia card running PrimeGrid just fine but the ATI isn't working on Collatz. Every WU runs for 2 seconds and gets a computation error. In the messages, it says something about "3 consecutive failures fetching scheduler list". I'm running the latest Boinc and ATI drivers. I tried disconnecting from the project and reconnecting. Still no luck. I hate getting all of those WUs and sending them back with errors. Any suggestions or should I just try PrineGrid on that one also. If I need to, I can start a thread in the Collatz area or a thread in the Boinc area.
My first two thoughts:
1. What version of BOINC are you running? If it's 6.10.xx, you should be fine...
2. What driver version do you have for the ATI card? I'd recommend upgrading to the most recent driver...

[Groundhog@SETI.USA]

My first two thoughts:
1. What version of BOINC are you running? If it's 6.10.xx, you should be fine...
2. What driver version do you have for the ATI card? I'd recommend upgrading to the most recent driver...

I'm running 6.10.58 of BOINC and the latest drivers from the ATI site. Detatched from Collatz and reattached. No luck. :(

[Teratoma]

I do not see DNETC@Home listed as a GPU capable project.

Also, I have a couple of Quadro FX 140M cards and I have only gotten them to crunch DNETC very early on and then something changed and and they no longer pulled any work. So, I am not sure they (or the 130/135Ms) belong on the list.

[Fire$torm]

I do not see DNETC@Home listed as a GPU capable project.

Also, I have a couple of Quadro FX 140M cards and I have only gotten them to crunch DNETC very early on and then something changed and and they no longer pulled any work. So, I am not sure they (or the 130/135Ms) belong on the list.

Thanks for heads up on D@H.
As to the FX cards I think it has to do with their Compute Capability of 1.1 and their on-board memory. Take a look at wikipedia's CUDA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA) and Quadro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NVIDIA_Quadro) pages along with nVidia's CUDA GPUS (http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_gpus.html) page. Those FX cards are of the same GPU series as the 8400M which is based on the Geforce 8xxx. Note that CUDA apps on the GeForce series requires 256MB of on-board memory but most mobile graphics use shared system memory which may be the problem.

[Maxwell]

Just Tweeted this article...

[Fire$torm]

Google Doc and Graphic have been updated to include ATI HD 5770. Thank you Mumps for the tip.

[Fire$torm]

Another update. Added HD 5550.
Thanks to Zytozux for this one.

[Tank_Master]

DistrRTgen has a nvidia app now:
http://boinc.freerainbowtables.com/distrrtgen/

[Tank_Master]

also, the ATI 6990, 6970, and 6950 could be added to the gpu table list.

[Maxwell]

And the graphic seems to have died...

[Fire$torm]

Update:

I am in the process of updating stuff to include the latest HD cards but I wanted to post this first. According to AMD's ATI Stream SDK w/OpenCL web documentation page System Requirements & Driver Compatibility, (http://developer.amd.com/gpu/ATIStreamSDK/pages/DriverCompatibility.aspx) only the HD 54xx series and up are fully supported in version 2.3 of the SDK. On that same page is a comment regarding products produced before the 5xxx series.

Quote:

The SDK may work on configurations that fall outside the list below. However, if your operating system, compiler, card, processor or driver is not listed below, we recommend that you modify your configuration to a supported configuration for the best possible ATI Stream programming experience.

This suggests that AMD Corp. will stop supporting older products altogether and probably sooner rather than later. More so if AMD decides to integrate OpenCL into all of its video drivers.
IMHO with the recent lackluster performance of AMD HD cards running OpenCL when compared to similar cards from nVidia, it is apparent to me that (I thought I would never say this) nVidia products are becoming a better alternative for crunchers as more and more BOINC projects switch to OpenCL apps. And if nVidia can learn to curb their future cards appetite for P = E x I, than nVidia might be able to bury AMD in the GPU Parallel Processing segment (i.e. Us crunchers).

[STMahlberg]

Update:

I am in the process of updating stuff to include the latest HD cards but I wanted to post this first. According to AMD's ATI Stream SDK w/OpenCL web documentation page System Requirements & Driver Compatibility, (http://developer.amd.com/gpu/ATIStreamSDK/pages/DriverCompatibility.aspx) only the HD 54xx series and up are fully supported in version 2.3 of the SDK. On that same page is a comment regarding products produced before the 5xxx series.

Quote:


This suggests that AMD Corp. will stop supporting older products altogether and probably sooner rather than later. More so if AMD decides to integrate OpenCL into all of its video drivers.
IMHO with the recent lackluster performance of AMD HD cards running OpenCL when compared to similar cards from nVidia, it is apparent to me that (I thought I would never say this) nVidia products are becoming a better alternative for crunchers as more and more BOINC projects switch to OpenCL apps. And if nVidia can learn to curb their future cards appetite for P = E x I, than nVidia might be able to bury AMD in the GPU Parallel Processing segment (i.e. Us crunchers).

Gawd, this is like having kids again... instead of outgrowing shoes we're going to have to replace GPU's every 6 months.

[Fire$torm]

Update:
Finished updating Document and graphics.
@Tank_Master: TY for the reminder :-bd I also added to the Mobility series of GPU's.

@Maxwell: I hadn't noticed so thanks \m/ Apparently I violated some term of use when I modified ImageShack's thumbnail URL for that graphic so they deleted the image. J-As'. I created my own thumbnail for the new graphic and put it on their site for them to host. >:)

[Tank_Master]

OpenCL is a port of Cuda, which is why nvidia cards work better. once AMD has had time to modify their drivers and cards, their performance will be a lot better. (on a side note, I am curious how the upcoming Intel GPU will perform with OCL)

[Tank_Master]

the geforce 570 should be added to the list, and the ATI 69xx are double presision, so they should be bold.

also, drugdiscovery has apps for both nvidia and ATI.

[zombie67]

CUDA on The Lattice Project too.

[Fire$torm]

the geforce 570 should be added to the list, and the ATI 69xx are double presision, so they should be bold.

also, drugdiscovery has apps for both nvidia and ATI.


CUDA on The Lattice Project too.
Thanks. I will start on the update the first of the new year.... :P

[krackedpress]

I have a question about PCI Express x16 versions.

The slot for the card, is it different between the original version
of PCIe x16 and version 2.0 and 2.1?

I have a computer that has the PCIe x16 slot, but most of the cards
are now version 2.0 or 2.1. I want to make sure that when I buy the
GPU card, I do not have a problem with it not being able to plug in
properly. I hope to save enough money to buy a GPU card for BOINC
crunching, but I do not want to buy a card that will not fit my motherboard.

Any help????

edit:
I see that the following is on sale at Newegg.com for $59.99
plus $9.99 for 1 year warranty and $6.98 shipping.

PowerColor AX4830 512MD3 Radeon HD 4830 512MB 256-bit
GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

There use to be a thread on the old board that pointed to a chart on
how many credits per day each GPU card does. On that chard, which
I printed out awhile ago, there is no reference to the 4830, but it
did have a 4770 at 47k and 4850 at 54k so hopefully the 4830 would
be between those two. I want the double percision for projects like
Milkyway.

[Tank_Master]

PCI-e 1/2/3 are all cross-compatible. youll be able to use any mix of card/slot you want.

[krackedpress]

PCI-e 1/2/3 are all cross-compatible. youll be able to use any mix of card/slot you want.

Thanks, I hoped that was true.

--------------------------------------

Does anyone know of some chart or graph that shows the relitive
word/credits done by the different GPU boards?

How does each ATI and nVidia GPU card compare to each other?
Which cards are better within you price level?

Months ago, I looked at an ATI HD4770 for around $100 as the lowest
price card with double precision. Now there is a 4830 for about $60, but
my info I have does not tell me how it stacked up wit the other cards
that I have info on.

I wonder if maybe we can gather info within our team about which
cards we have and how many credits per day these GPU cards are
making for their owners and which project that they are running.

Maybe if people would PM or email me, I could collect the info together
and make a chart, or graph, to help enlighten people with which cards
are better for each project that is run with them.

I could use the chart that was created/maintained by Fire$torm and then
add the info on how many credits it does daily, or how fast it takes to complete
a task for the project that is run. That way, since I cannot find the info anywhere
anymore, we can have a reference to what each card can do and then give
more knowledgeable info about the cards and which projects work better
for them.

Anyone willing to help? I am willing to collect the data to make a spreadsheet
and graph. All I need is the input in a "standardized" format that can be used
to compare the cards properly.

I am willing, but are you?
My email for SETI stuff is seti@krackedpress.com . We can do it off the
forum or we can creat a thread for this "project".

[krackedpress]

Anyone willing to help? I am willing to collect the data to make a spreadsheet
and graph. All I need is the input in a "standardized" format that can be used
to compare the cards properly.

I am willing, but are you?
My email for SETI stuff is seti@krackedpress.com . We can do it off the
forum or we can creat a thread for this "project".

This is the type of graph I would like to do. The figures are gleaned from the Collatz
forums.

Click on this image to see the simple chart of nVidia and ATI cards.
How many minutes does it take to do a WU for the Collatz project

102

[STMahlberg]

Here is the complete list (As far as I am aware) of ATI & Nvidia cards that can be used to crunch GPU capable projects. The thumbnail graphic will open the full size image in a new tab or page.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/591/boincgpulistsmall.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6241/boincgpulist.jpg)

If you prefer you can view the actual spreadsheet I created in Google Docs here: BOINC GPU Compatibility List (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AqCMiOAyW0eBdHdWRDlkZ2xHeUxDQ0E1TVQtVkI3c kE&hl=en&authkey=COmlndUK)
The Google spreadsheet will allow the viewer to print it or download the page in any of the following formats: HTML, OpenOffice, Excel, PDF, Text or CSV. To download click on File > Download as > [Select Format]. To print click the printer icon under the File Menu.

Here is the list of all BOINC Projects that offer GPU apps
Einstein@home (Subproject: Arecibo Binary Pulsar Search) (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/) - [Nvidia]

MilkyWay@Home (http://milkyway.cs.rpi.edu/milkyway/) - [ATI & Nvidia] (*1)

SETI@Home (http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/) - [Nvidia]

GPUGrid (http://www.gpugrid.net/) - [Nvidia]

AQUA@Home (http://aqua.dwavesys.com/) - [Nvidia] (*2)

Collatz Conjecture (http://boinc.thesonntags.com/collatz/apps.php) - [ATI & Nvidia]

PrimeGrid [Subproject: Proth Prime Search (Sieve)] (http://www.primegrid.com/) - [ATI & Nvidia]

DNETC@Home (http://dnetc.net/) - [ATI & Nvidia]

Notes:
*1) Apps require GPUs with Double Precision (DP). Refer to GPU list for cards with DP.
*2) OpenCL apps for Nvidia require Compute Capability 1.3 or higher. OpenCL apps for ATI require HD 5xxx series cards or higher.

Please send me a PM for any additions or corrections and I will update the image and the spreadsheet when time allows.

Hope this helps.

Peace.

So it would appear from the projects that are currently available, one would have more options using Nvidia GPU's?

And how does Nvidia compare to ATI?

I know that I bought a GeForce 9800GTX a while ago and was greatly disappointed in it's performance.

[Fire$torm]

the geforce 570 should be added to the list, and the ATI 69xx are double presision, so they should be bold.

also, drugdiscovery has apps for both nvidia and ATI.


CUDA on The Lattice Project too.

Update:
Thanks again guys. Updated the ATI list and added Lattice. Forgot about the 570 so it will wait till tomorrow.

Edit: Finally remembered to add the GTX 570.

[Tank_Master]

Albert@Home - http://albert.phys.uwm.edu/ - has a ATI openCL app and a NVidia cuda app. This project exists for testing the openCL app for einstine@home, which requires different server version than what is on the main Einstein project
*Note: BOINC BOINC 6.13.10 (and newer) is required to detect openCL capability on the host.

[Fire$torm]

Albert@Home - http://albert.phys.uwm.edu/ - has a ATI openCL app and a NVidia cuda app. This project exists for testing the openCL app for einstine@home, hich requires different server version than what is on the main Einstein project
*Note: BOINC BOINC 6.13.10 (and newer) is required to detect openCL capability on the host.

Updated. Thx for the reminder.

[spingadus]

I thought I remembered hearing that the albert@home project doesn't export stats, so you won't get credit. Can someone verify that? If so, we should list that info as well.

[STE\/E]

Right now Credit is being Granted & the Stats Exported but that can change at any time Per the Admins of the Project.

Also be aware that the BOINC Client 6.13.10 (and newer) doesn't allow you to run the MOO Project or at least it didn't the last time I tried it.

I had over 700 Pending Wu's aborted by the Project a month or so ago, so expect anything to happen there Per the Project Admin's whim ...

[spingadus]

Thanks for the info. I won't be crunching albert or upgrading then.

[Philadelphia]

[QUOTE=Fire$torm;2711]Here is the complete list (As far as I am aware) of ATI & Nvidia cards that can be used to crunch GPU capable projects. The thumbnail graphic will open the full size image in a new tab or page.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/5817/gpulistsmall.png (http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1640/gpulist.png)



Aren't the 5870's double precision, the reason I ask is they are not highlighted on the chart.

[DrPop]

Yes, all the 5800 series cards are DP - 5830, 5850, and 5870.:cool:

[Fire$torm]

Aren't the 5870's double precision, the reason I ask is they are not highlighted on the chart.

You are correct. I will fix it today. Thanks for pointing that out.

F$

[Duke of Buckingham]

Sorry for the stupid question, What is DP?

Duke :confused:

[DrPop]

No stupid questions here, bro, it is something I would have asked a year and a half ago! ;)
DP is short for dual precision and is a type of math. A GPU capable of this is a requirement for crunching certain projects such as MilkyWay. Moo! or Collatz on the other hand, use single precision math, so any GPU can crunch them.

[Duke of Buckingham]

So my motherboard is a P5G31/DP MB so has a Double Precision CPU. And work better with a double precision GPU. Is that right or nothing to do with that ... This little things don't seem important but usually they are or are not?

Duke

[DrPop]

Hi Duke, I know this stuff can get crazy in a hurry if you're not a tech nut like some of us! ;)
The motherboard and CPU don't matter so much in this scenario, but you are correct, your CPU could crunch any project. As long as you have a pci-e slot on your motherboard, you can attach any current GPU to it, either a dual precision capable GPU, or a less expensive single precision GPU.
This dual and single precision talk is just for certain projects that utilize it. A more expensive GPU will have the ability to do dual precision math, because it is engineered for greater computational capability.

[Duke of Buckingham]

OK DrPop, I just wanted to understand but I think I did. Linux makes us have to understand things better. The problem is that I have only one PCI-E and 2 GPUs.

Thanks for your help my good friend.

Duke:cool:

[zombie67]

Sorry for the stupid question, What is DP?

Duke :confused:

Whatever you do, don't look that up on Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DP)! ;)

[DrPop]

Whatever you do, don't look that up on Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=DP)! ;)

Lol! You weren't kidding! :-o

[Duke of Buckingham]

:D =))=))=))^#(^

[coronicus]

OMG :o I didnt need to know how my video card enjoyed its crunching....

[Tank_Master]

DNETC no longer exists and probably should be removed from the list. DrugDiscovery@Home doesn't seem to be handing out work anymore either. And SETI beta hasn't given out ATI work in well over a year now, but ill ask RomW if there are any plans on restarting that.

[Fire$torm]

DNETC no longer exists and probably should be removed from the list. DrugDiscovery@Home doesn't seem to be handing out work anymore either. And SETI beta hasn't given out ATI work in well over a year now, but ill ask RomW if there are any plans on restarting that.

Thx. Updated but I will leave the last two on for now, only because they may start handing out work at some point.