Greetings from Portugal!

[pinhodecarlos]

Hi all,

Just introducing myself to the SETI.USA community. I am from Portugal and I usually do some backstage crunching for RSALS (aka RSA) and NFS@Home when integers sieved via BOINC by these two projects are available for post-processing phase. I don't get BOINC credit for it, just do it for the math and fun..lol
My interests are in the math world more precisely factoring integers by different methods like ecm, GNFS and SNFS, but more likely from the latter.

Best regards,

Carlos Pinho

PS( Hey Mike029, I am here!)

[Crazybob]

Welcome to our boards Carlos! Always good to hear from other crunchers.

[Mumps]

Heya Carlos! Imagine seeing you here!

Get some more of those RSA jobs Post-Processed! We need more WU's! :)

(Things got suddenly very busy at work, so I've got to wait a little longer before hopping into the PP world.)

[Duke of Buckingham]

Ola pessoal da matemática. O meu nome é Ricardo Ferreira e tambem sou Portugues de Lisboa embora seja conhecido por aqui como Duke of Buckingham de profissão sou Engenheiro de Som. Sê bem vindo ao Forum Carlos.

Hello people from mathematics. My name is Ricardo Ferreira and I am also Portuguese from Lisbon although I am known around here as Duke of Buckingham, I am Sound Engineer by profession. Be most welcome to the Forum Carlos.

Duke
http://ayeshanaveed.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/hello.jpg

[pinhodecarlos]

Heya Carlos! Imagine seeing you here!

Get some more of those RSA jobs Post-Processed! We need more WU's! :)

(Things got suddenly very busy at work, so I've got to wait a little longer before hopping into the PP world.)

I stop helping RSA because we you already know the project will be closed by the end of the month and right now the server is full. All integers ready for post-processing are already reserved by others so I moved my help to NFS@Home. As can be seen here (http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/crunching.php) the RSA equivalent is live! Done two jobs and a third will end within ~12 hours.

So by moving CPU power from RSA to NFS@Home (please check lasieved - app for RSALS subproject, uses less than 0.5 GB memory to yes) you will make a favour to RSA. The advantage of running the NFS@Home under Linux is that the application is 64-bit compatible so you will get double credit and the speed is double when comparing to the 32-bit siever of the RSA. Also NFS@Home shares a wide range of the sievers for other platforms. I understand you all want to reach some milestones but RSA server is only 160 GB of space available and so it's very difficult to manage such space with post-processing stage.

Cheers,

Carlos Pinho

[Mad Matt]

Bem-vindo pinhodecarlos, and cheers for the information on RSA. :cool:

[pinhodecarlos]

Tomorrow I will start F1887 post-processing phase but it will only free up some 5 GB on the server. Right now 8 integers are free for reservation but I only have a computer!!!

Carlos

[Fire$torm]

Hello and welcome. Sorry for the delay in posting. It's been a busy month so far....

Anyhoot, enjoy and if you have any questions, please feel free to post.

Peace,
F$

[Nuadormrac]

Hey, and welcome...

And you're already on NFS, so won't have to inform you, that according to RSA's main page, the project is going down/transfering over to NFS at the end of this month....

[pinhodecarlos]

Hey, and welcome...

And you're already on NFS, so won't have to inform you, that according to RSA's main page, the project is going down/transfering over to NFS at the end of this month....

Yes I know but there are still a few integers to post-process before shutting down RSA forever. For BOINC users it is already closed, for us not yet. Don't worry that I don't get any BOINC points for the post-processing stage.

Carlos

[BlkJack-21]

welcome to the boards pinhodecarlos

[pinhodecarlos]

Did you guys see the latest NFS@Home news report? -->>> http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/forum_thread.php?id=372
10 RSALS-sized (aka RSA) numbers were already factored, now NFS@Home just needs the power. If you don't want the NFS@Home WUs to use more RAM than the current RSALS WUs do, you'll have to make sure, in the preferences of your account on NFS@Home ( http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/prefs.php?subset=project ), that "lasieved" is the only enabled siever.

[artemis8]

Welcome, great to have you here!

[Mike029]

Hi all,

Just introducing myself to the SETI.USA community. I am from Portugal and I usually do some backstage crunching for RSALS (aka RSA) and NFS@Home when integers sieved via BOINC by these two projects are available for post-processing phase. I don't get BOINC credit for it, just do it for the math and fun..lol
My interests are in the math world more precisely factoring integers by different methods like ecm, GNFS and SNFS, but more likely from the latter.

Best regards,

Carlos Pinho

PS( Hey Mike029, I am here!)

Glad to have your Carlos. I guess it's safe to say that there will not be any more work units coming from RSA? Too bad, we were so close. Ahh well. I'll grab some NFS after the SIMAP challenge. Your welcome to joins us there on the stomp. :D

[pinhodecarlos]

Glad to have your Carlos. I guess it's safe to say that there will not be any more work units coming from RSA? Too bad, we were so close. Ahh well. I'll grab some NFS after the SIMAP challenge. Your welcome to joins us there on the stomp. :D

100 % sure Mike. All numbers have been reserved, 6 left. At the moment I post the reservation table has not been updated.
Thanks you for the invitation but I am already post-processing numbers for NFS (5_492_plus1 ), you can look here: http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/crunching.php.

Carlos

[pinhodecarlos]

Sorry for the late reply.
Yes, it is safe to say that there will not be any more work units coming from RSA. Now it's time to run NFS@Home lasieved application.
Thank you for the invitation to run the SIMAP challenge but my machine is reserved to do the backstage work (post-processing) you guys do at boinc NFS@Home.

Carlos

[pinhodecarlos]

Greg just added a new progress page for lasievee application hosted at http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/crunching_e.php.

[pinhodecarlos]

Here some numbers on factorizations done so far by NFS@Home (Greg's comments).


For the largest so far, 2,1061-, the files total 125 GB including an 86 GB text file containing the relations and a 37 GB binary matrix file.

Once we have completed a factorization, I typically delete the associated files. However, I have saved the recent largest factorizations:

58G ./6p379
111G ./2p997
125G ./2m1061
57G ./5p433
118G ./2m1031
113G ./5m409
58G ./3m607
636G .

Someone asked why the LA must be ran on Greg's machine and not on members? (here the mention to his computer is wrong because Greg is using some clusters at university)

Greg's reply (only true for lasievee application):


The linear algebra algorithm requires nearly constant communication of a large amount of data between all of the computers used in the calculation, so it must be done on a local cluster connected with a high-speed network. The Infiniband network that the cluster has provides 10 Gbit/s bandwidth in each direction for each computer with a communication latency less than 2 microseconds.

[pinhodecarlos]

I would like to share one thing with the team. I'll be doing some backstage sieve on/to NFS@Home so I joined SETI.USA team so that the credits could be added to the team. Take care. Carlos Pinho.

[Duke of Buckingham]

Carlos Pinho:

Is been very interesting our exchange of Private Messages in this last few times. It was quite a surprise to me that factorization as such an huge influence on other sciences including on the study of DNA and in the search of the cure for multiples diseases (as cancer).

It seems a pity to me that this utility given to this mathematics field is not well known from general public, what maybe is not helping NFS development and research. I know that is in the Project page but it is so hidden that seems to be a minor issue and it is not, IS OF THE MOST IMPORTANCE.

A lot of BOINC crunchers have a real passion with the search for the cure of diseases and would be very happy to help NFS, if they could understand the importance of factorization and sieving as you explained to me.

I say you should prepare and write one (or more) articles about this interdependence, as simple as you can put it because simple things are more effective.

I can imagine that kind of knowledge, can only benefit NFS because some crunchers could dedicate a part of their crunching power to help you (all of you) that are more connected with the project. I say the benefit would be enormous. What do you say Carlos? Do you have time for it?

Ricardo Ferreira

[pinhodecarlos]

I'll be quoting NFS@Home administrator with a few explanations about the goal of this Boinc Project.


The goal of NFS@Home is to factor large numbers using the Number Field Sieve algorithm. After setting up two polynomials and various parameters, the project participants "sieve" the polynomials to find values of two variables, called "relations," such that the values of both polynomials are completely factored. Each workunit finds a small number of relations, typically a bit less than 2,000, and returns them. Once these are returned, I combine all of the relations together into one large file then start the "postprocessing." The postprocessing involves combining primes from the relations to eliminate as many as possible, constructing a matrix from those remaining, solving this matrix, then performing square roots of the products of the relations indicated by the solutions to the matrix. The end result is the factors of the number. Currently, we are factoring about one number each week. All factors are linked from the status page (http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/numbers.html).

For a (much) more technical description of the NFS, see the Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_field_sieve) or Briggs' Master's thesis (http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-32298-93111/unrestricted/etd.pdf).


My interest lies in the continued development of open source, publicly available tools for large integer factorization. Over the past couple of years, the capability of open source tools, in particular the lattice sieve of the GGNFS suite (http://sourceforge.net/projects/ggnfs/) and the program msieve (http://sourceforge.net/projects/msieve/), have dramatically improved. My collaborators and I have factored quite a few large numbers using these tools.

Integer factorization is interesting both mathematical and practical perspectives. Mathematically, for instance, the calculation of multiplicative functions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicative_function) in number theory for a particular number require the factors of the number. Likewise, the integer factorization of particular numbers can aid in the proof that an associated number is prime. Practically, many public key algorithms, including the RSA algorithm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA), rely on the fact that the publicly available modulus cannot be factored. If it is factored, the private key can be easily calculated. Until quite recently, RSA-512, which uses a 512-bit modulus (155 digits), was used. As recently demonstrated by factoring the Texas Instruments calculator keys, these are no longer secure.

For most recent large factorizations, the work has been done primarily by large clusters at universities. There are two other public efforts, NFSNet and MersenneForum, in both of which I have participated, but the software used by NFSNet doesn't incorporate the latest developments and participation in the MersenneForum effort requires manual reservation and submission of work. I have been toying with the idea of trying a BOINC project for a while now to make it easy for the public to participate in state-of-the-art factorizations, and I found the time to do so. My interest in this project is to see how far we can push the envelope and perhaps become competitive with the larger university projects running on clusters, and perhaps even collaborating on a really large factorization.

The numbers are chosen from the Cunningham project (http://homes.cerias.purdue.edu/~ssw/cun/index.html). The project is named after Allan Joseph Champneys Cunningham, who published the first version of the factor tables together with Herbert J. Woodall in 1925. This project is one of the oldest continuously ongoing projects in computational number theory, and is currently maintained by Sam Wagstaff at Purdue University. The third edition of the book, published by the American Mathematical Society in 2002, is available as a free download (http://www.ams.org/online_bks/conm22/). All results obtained since the publication of the third edition are available on the Cunningham project website.

Concerning target size, I started out somewhat "small" (small meaning that I can do it on our cluster in a few days), but it also took the contributors to this project only a few days as well. For our second project, I chose a target somewhat larger. I will continue to slowly increase the size. The real limit is the memory requirement. The current project requires a bit less than 512 MB of memory. As the size of the target increases, that will also increase somewhat. I will be keeping a close eye on that as we move forward.



One of the goals of the project is to collaborate with other groups on record-size factorizations.


Thanks to recent advances in the msieve postprocessing code, a significant barrier limiting the size of numbers that we can factor has been removed. Therefore, over the next few months, we will be factoring progressively larger numbers using the lasievef application. To reflect the increased importance of these larger work units, their credit has been adjusted.

If your computer has at least 1.25 GB of memory per core and you are not running other memory-hungry applications in the background, please try disabling the lasievee application in your NFS@Home preferences. If your computer can successfully run the lasievef application, you will contribute to the largest NFS factorizations completed to date using open source software and will earn more credits per day. In the case of a quad-core computer with 4 GB of memory, you will earn more credit per day running three instances of lasievef and leaving one core idle than running four instances of lasievee.

Do not worry if your computer does not have sufficient memory for the lasievef application or other background processes prevent you from using it. Work for lasievee will continue to be available over the long term.

[pinhodecarlos]

Applications available (sievers available) from http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/prefs.php?subset=project:

lasieved - app for RSALS subproject, uses less than 0.5 GB memory: yes or no
lasievee - work nearly always available, uses up to 0.5 GB memory: yes or no
lasievef - used for huge factorizations, uses up to 1 GB memory: yes or no
lasieve5f - used for huge factorizations, uses up to 1 GB memory: yes or no

Credit per wu?

lasieved - 36
lasievee - 44
lasievef - 65
lasieve5f - 65

Why the difference in credits?
The more valuable calculation gets more credit. Especially for 16e (lasievef+lasieve5f), the extra credit also awards for the large memory usage.


What project uses what application?

lasieved - Oddperfect, n^n+(n+1)^(n+1), Fibonacci, Lucas, Cunningham, Cullen and Woodall for SNFS difficulty below 250.
lasievee - Cunningham, Oddperfect or other for SNFS difficulty above 250 to ~280.
lasievef - push the state of art for very difficulty factorizations, above SNFS difficulty of 280
lasieve5f - push the state of art for very difficulty factorizations, above SNFS difficulty of 280

The limits depends upon the boundaries chosen for the poly and characteristics of the number being factored. It's advanced math related.

[Duke of Buckingham]

Carlos

Yes, I was not completely correct, I am sorry Carlos Pinho. You never said that the factorization would be cure for cancer. The study of factorization give the mathematical tools to the investigation of genetics. And genetics maybe connected to some types of cancer.

Sorry for the fact that I am not a scientist and that doesn't help very much either. My understanding is to help making things easier for us the common people to understand things better.

Thanks for crunching for the team at NFS, your daily output is very nice. NFS is quite a difficult project in credits. I am paying more attention to NFS and it seems that in a short time we could climb some positions at the Project. Pity that we are so involved for the moment in other projects.

Ricardo Ferreira

[Duke of Buckingham]

Carlos I am very happy that you decided to be a team member.
http://gameknot.com/img/t/team.1031.jpg?1331865132

Welcome to our team
http://www.nps.org/sites/default/files/u72/NPS%20Web%20Page%20symbol.jpg

http://partyplanstore.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/welcome-to-the-team-card.jpg

[Mike029]

Applications available (sievers available) from http://escatter11.fullerton.edu/nfs/prefs.php?subset=project:

lasieved - app for RSALS subproject, uses less than 0.5 GB memory: yes or no
lasievee - work nearly always available, uses up to 0.5 GB memory: yes or no
lasievef - used for huge factorizations, uses up to 1 GB memory: yes or no
lasieve5f - used for huge factorizations, uses up to 1 GB memory: yes or no

Credit per wu?

lasieved - 36
lasievee - 44
lasievef - 65
lasieve5f - 65

Why the difference in credits?

What project uses what application?

lasieved - Oddperfect, n^n+(n+1)^(n+1), Fibonacci, Lucas, Cunningham, Cullen and Woodall for SNFS difficulty below 250.
lasievee - Cunningham, Oddperfect or other for SNFS difficulty above 250 to ~280.
lasievef - push the state of art for very difficulty factorizations, above SNFS difficulty of 280
lasieve5f - push the state of art for very difficulty factorizations, above SNFS difficulty of 280

The limits depends upon the boundaries chosen for the poly and characteristics of the number being factored. It's advanced math related.


Great to have you here Carlos and thank you for joining us. :-bd

Great info on this project. One question, how long does it take to complete a work unit from the different projects on an I7? If you have that data available, if not I'll crunch some and post it.

If you can post this in the NFS forum we'll make it a Sticky for all to view and understand. (*)

[pinhodecarlos]

Thank you for the welcome.

[pinhodecarlos]

Just noticed that Mumps [MM] moved a few cores to NFS@Home. Just a quick note about how to manage the highest credits.
If you have less than 4 GB of memory it's better to run 3 threads of lasieve5f or lasievef and leave the last thread to another project in case you will be running NFS on a quad machine.
If more than 2GB of memory available per thread you should always choose lasieve5f or lasievef as the siever application.

Carlos

[pinhodecarlos]

Great info on this project. One question, how long does it take to complete a work unit from the different projects on an I7? If you have that data available, if not I'll crunch some and post it.



Depends on the position of the Q range you are sieving, as you get closer to the end it goes harder and slower, and also depends on the size of the wu. Example, I am using lasieved on my core i5 750 @3.4Ghz (linux 64 bits) and wu are sized "-c 16000 special q" and they are taking ~1900 secs. This wu only gets me 36 credits.
I think you should do a test on an i7 for lasievef or lasieve5f. Another way to see how fast are machines is to search for the top computers and if computers as not hidden then you can check the timings for the wu's. The only issue is that you can't check if the processor is overclocked or not. The lasievef or lasieve5f applications have sized of 1000 special q.

Warning: only run this project if you have linux 64 bits, no windows because the applications are 70 % slower. They are not optimized for windows. Example, my T7250 @ 2.00GHz windows laptop is taking ~13,000 seconds to do a wu.

[quote]Q range: Sieving range, indicating the total number of workunits, each one managing 16k Q values[quote]

Carlos

[Duke of Buckingham]

Carlos

I think that those who can will crunch a bit NFS. We have not a good position at the project and that can be rectified at least for 3 or 4 places up.

Mumps, well Mumps is Mumps he is like the cookie monster instead of eating cookies he crunches CPU tasks. Thanks for the help Mumps.

http://wjamericorpsfellows.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/cookie.gif

Carlos we are waiting for your and NFS Administrators to give us some more detailed explanation on the project.

Do as Mike said start a new thread at our Forum NFS. People will have questions of course.

We are here in case you need any help with the articles. I am always around but jumping from one task to another.
I promise to make a lot of confusion with the articles. This way we all learn what is really in there.

Your friend
Ric