Need home theater advice

[zombie67]

My current set up is a couple sources (DIRECTV and DVD), with video sources going into the TV, and audio sources going into the stereo, then out to the speakers (5.2). It is a horrible set up, requiring a crapload of remotes, and I'm the only one who can figure out how to make it work.

Anyway, I need to simplify this. I don't use the stereo for anything other than powering the speakers for the video source.

Is there a way to cut out the whole stereo box? In other words:

DIRECTV -> HDMI -> TV -> digital audio out -> ? -> 5.2 speakers (5.1 would be fine)
DVD -> HDMI --------^

I think the "?" would have to be some sort of dumb amplifier. Does such a thing exist?

The goal here is the single DIRECTV remote would control everything. And before you ask, no, I don't want to work around this by getting a programmable remote to disguise the complexity.

[John P. Myers]

Like this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115377

Edit: this looks better actually http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120197

[zombie67]

Like this? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115377

Hmm. I think that is way overkill for what I am looking for. That is $800, and the product desc is:


Sophisticated zone options include powered Zone 2 with party mode and Zone B dual HDMI outputs. Included WiFi Adapter and Yamaha AV Controller App provide simple network control in either Zone. Multi-point YPAO auto calibration expedites setup and ensures accuracy. Expand Apple® connectivity with AirPlay® and versatile USB input for iPad®. Enjoy the efficiency of ECO mode today and be ready for the future with 4k video up-scaling.


I *think* I am looking for just a dumb amp. I have seen these "theater in a box" sets. 5-6 speakers with a box of some sort. But I already have the (very good) speakers.

[John P. Myers]

Yeah the issue is you can't use a dummy amp unless you get several of them. Surround sound requires signal processing capabilities, otherwise every speaker outputs the same sounds as every other speaker. Plain amps just take a signal, amplify and spit it out with no regard as to the location or type of speaker, though most will have frequency cutoffs for use with subwoofers.

I'm not a home theater guru so i could be way off on the more recent technologies but nothing popped up on my searches :/

[zombie67]

Yeah, my current receiver (12 years old now) lost it's center channel out. BUT I *really* don't want to replace it. Way too complicated, with way too many features that will never be used.

[Fire$torm]

I *think* I am looking for just a dumb amp. I have seen these "theater in a box" sets. 5-6 speakers with a box of some sort. But I already have the (very good) speakers.

All you really need is an Audio Video (AV) Receiver or AV Amp if you do not listen to analog radio. All kinds out there at every price point you can imagine.

There are a few gotchas to look out for with AV units.

1) Bi-Directional HDMI Audio: This feature is a must for many if not most digital audio configs.


Audio Return Channel
The new specification (HDMI v1.4) will add an Audio Return Channel that will reduce the number of cables required to deliver audio upstream for processing and playback. In cases where HDTVs are directly receiving audio and video content, this new Audio Return Channel allows the HDTV to send the audio stream to the A/V receiver over the HDMI cable, eliminating the need for an extra cable.

2) HDMI Pass-through Ports: Another must have feature


Pass Through

HDMI cables carry audio and video signals with a single connection.

A pass through port for HDMI or any other signal simply forward the input signal, usually without changes. For an HDMI example, an AV receiver takes inputs from devices such as DVD players and cable and satellite receivers. It reads the audio signals from a selected input, amplifies them and sends them to external speakers, while "passing" the signal "through" to the viewing screen. Some AV receivers may remove the audio signal while passing through the video, but HDMI users consider this "pass through" because the video portion of the signal remains unchanged.

3) Motorized Switches/Controls: On lower end AV units this is a likely point of failure. Although "High End" units are not completely immune either.

Some features to look for.

* Adjustable Input Level (Gain) controls: This feature is used to match volume levels for each input or source. This adjustment is made at or before the Preamp stage. Better units will have a level control for each input while lower end units may only have them for one or two inputs.

* Direct Source Input (Audio): This feature has different names depending on manufacturer but its function is simple. It by-passes all gain stages (circuits within the AV unit that increase or change source input) and feeds the final output directly. Its a purist thing but can have a profound impact on what you hear.

* PC Programmable Remote: This is a more esoteric feature but a nice one. Especially great when working up complex macros.

There are a lot of features available but you will never find two people who can agree on the "Important Ones".

I can do some digging though its been awhile for me. Just let me know.

F$

[zombie67]

Fpr "AV receiver", wiki says:


AV receivers or audio-video receivers are one of the many consumer electronics components typically found within a home theatre system. Their primary purpose is to amplify sound from a multitude of possible audio sources as well as route video signals to your TV from various sources. The user may program and configure a unit to take inputs from devices such as DVD players, VCRs etc. and easily select for which source he or she wants to route to their TV and have sound output.

Dang. That is also way more than I want. Just a single audio source is fine (it will be coming from the TV, which is managing all this after all). And no routing of video sources required.

I want something simple. Single audio input -> speakers. With a way to adjust volume levels per channel.

[zombie67]

Maybe the solution is to buy one of the cheaper "theater in a box" solutions, and then just use my speakers instead?

[John P. Myers]

Maybe. I did another search and can't find any audio receivers 5.1+ that weren't also video receivers like the 2 i linked in my first post. I never realized it was so difficult to find just a plain audio receiver :( The only ones i did find were stereo which would turn your 5.2 into 2.0 :( Not cool.

[Fire$torm]

Hmmmm OK Z. One question, is the audio from the TV (Source) digital or analog?

Your solution would be a multi-channel amp (No pre-amp or tuner sections). I have seen 5 and 7 channel amps. The downside for one of these is price. Many AV manufacturers have down sized their lineups. And companies like Denon have gone esoteric with matching $2,000.00+ price tags like (These (http://www.stereophile.com/content/2012-recommended-components-surround-sound-components)).

One company that offers a good product in the sub $1,000 range is Outlaw Audio's model 7075 7-channel amp @75W/CH. Personally I have never auditioned anything from Outlaw so I cannot offer any insight.

links

Model 7075 product page: http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7075.html

User Manual PDF DL: http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/7075manual.pdf

Review: http://hometheaterreview.com/outlaw-audio-model-7075-seven-channel-amplifier-reviewed/

Edit: Ignore everything above. You already answered my question in your first post.......

From a cost standpoint, you are better off buying a decent AV receiver and just not use all its features. Or run your sources through it rather then the TV. Why? Its the digital audio & video. There is no simple & low cost solution that I have seen. The market just won't or hasn't produced one.

You could still use the amp I mentioned above but you would have to add preamp/converter that accepts Toslink or HDMI audio and spits out analog. These will be very pricey units. They would start around $400~$600 and go up in price, way up!

[Fire$torm]

Hey zombie,

Though you might not be interested I found an AV receiver that I would classify as decent, the Harman Karen AVR 1650 which can be had on Amazon (Link (http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-AVR-1650-5-1-Channel/dp/B00548SKMI)) for $390.00 ($209.00 under list price)

One other thing, remotes. If you would like to reduce your remote count then consider a Programmable Universal Remote. Forget about the units that come with components, most are hack jobs at best. Many 3rd party units are PC programmable and have LCD screens. Some are even Mac compatible :P Of course prices may put you off but a good remote will ease entertainment life once it is setup.

Some units to consider

Logitech Harmony Touch [Due out Oct. 10th] - $249.99 (Logitech Link (http://www.logitech.com/remotes/universal-remotes/harmony-touch)) (Amazon Link #1 - $289.99 (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmony-Universal-Remote-Touchscreen/dp/B009EIUH6G/ref=dp_ob_title_ce)) (Amazon Link #2 - $249.99 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B009EIUH6G/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new))
Logitech Harmony H-659 - $134.99 [Mac Compatible] (Link (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0003QER82?ie=UTF8&tag=remocent-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0003QER82))
Logitech Harmony 700 - $89.99 (Link (http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-915-000162-Harmony-Rechargeable-Remote/dp/B004OVECUA/ref=pd_cp_e_1))
URC R50 - $78.12 (Link (http://www.amazon.com/URC-Digital-Universal-Control-Components/dp/B001KC08AE/ref=pd_cp_e_0)) (Review Link (http://www.remotecentral.com/reviews/urc_r50/index.html))
Acoustic Research ARRX18G - $124.30 (Link (http://www.aztekcomputers.com/ARRX18G-AUDIOVOX-902188.html))

[John P. Myers]

This Onkyo that i linked in my first post is only $389.99 with free shipping (was $699.99) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120197

Seems to be a tad better than the Harman Kardon, though as i said before i'm no guru and could be overlooking something :p

[Fire$torm]

This Onkyo that i linked in my first post is only $389.99 with free shipping (was $699.99) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120197

Seems to be a tad better than the Harman Kardon, though as i said before i'm no guru and could be overlooking something :p

Nope your good here. About the only thing the Onkyo falls behind the H/K on is style.... :P

Edit: Z if you go AV receiver then the Onkyo is a better choice.

[coronicus]

if you go with onkyo make sure there is a service provider in your area cause man the shipping on those heavy monsters is a killer... im sure its probably the same with H/K but both are nice units.

[Fire$torm]

Hi Z,

What did you end up doing, if I may ask?

[zombie67]

Nothing yet. I'm procrastinating.

[Duke of Buckingham]

Nothing yet. I'm procrastinating.

I don't know what that is but I hope you get better soon.

That should be very serious...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jvW5FxGBb68/TMby2FdaIAI/AAAAAAAACtk/E_zyhwtgn_E/s1600/fear+of+long+words.jpg

[Fire$torm]

Nothing yet. I'm procrastinating.

Well I might have something for you (of sorts)

HDMI to Analog Audio decoder

Ambery.com - HDMI LPCM 7.1 5.1 Multi-Channel Audio Decoder Amplifier - (Unknown maker/origin)
On Ambery: $128.95 Link (http://www.ambery.com/2hddodtsdihd.html)
On eBay: $128.95 Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/HDMI-LPCM-7-1-5-1-Multi-Channel-Audio-Decoder-Amplifier-/350247932081)

Note: They call it an amplifier but that is a misnomer. No high level output to speak of.

Gefen.com - TV Digital Audio Decoder for HDMI
On Gefen: $599.99 (Link (http://www.gefen.com/gefentv/gtvproduct.jsp?prod_id=8202))
On B&H Photo (Lowest Online Price) $407.45 (Link (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/650899-REG/Gefen_GTV_AUDDEC_Gefen_Audio_Decoder.html))

Either unit above still requires a 7.1/5.1 multichannel amplifier, pairs of amps (like x3 stereo amps for 5.1), or AV receiver with direct amp inputs (Where you can disconnect the preamp outputs from the amp inputs, aka bridge connectors).


Side note: At one point in recent history Ricco made a 5.1 Channel Digital 4 Port HDMI AV Amplifier. Which is exactly what you wanted. But it is no longer manufactured. Alas Ricco is not known for quality audio hardware. In fact they no longer produce any audio equipment. Still if you happen to come across one on eBay or Craig's List it might be something to look at.

Old Amazon Listing (Link (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Channel-Digital-Amplifier-Receiver-Control/dp/B00501JMKI))
Old Gadget Express Listing (Amazon Store) (Link (http://www.gadget-express.co.uk/Channel-Digital-Amplifier-Receiver-Control/dp/B00501JMKI))

[zombie67]

Thanks for all the info

I notice that BOSE has something like what I want. Plug their speakers directly into your TV. I want the same, but with my own speakers. Ah well.

[Mad Matt]

Anybody ever tried this one?

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vSeries/v-dacii/
http://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/musical_fidelity_v-dac_da_processor

[zombie67]

Good lord. I just noticed that I can't even spell "advice". L-)

[zombie67]

Okay, I give up. What I want just isn't possible.

I now have:

DIREVTV DVR -> HDMI -> receiver
blue ray DVD -> HDMI -> receiver

Then from the receiver -> HDMI -> TV, and receiver -> direct to speakers (5.2)

The result is I have:

DIRECTV remote to turn on/off the TV and the DVR, to change the channel, and mange the DVR
DVD remote to turn on/off the DVD, and manage playback
Receiver remote to turn on/off the receiver, change the source, adjust the volume

Is there a universal remote that will do all that, and is **EASY** to use and program? It needs to be so easy a guest can pick it up and use it without instruction. And it needs to be usable without looking at the buttons or an lcd screen. Something like the TIVO or DIRECTV remote, where you can tell the various buttons just by feel, after using it only a few times.

Or am I on another wild goose hunt?


Edit: After checking a few review sites, it looks like logitech is the way to go. And with only 4 items to manage (tv, dvd, receiver, dvd), the 650 seems to get the job done. thoughts?

[Fire$torm]

.......Is there a universal remote that will do all that, and is **EASY** to use and program? It needs to be so easy a guest can pick it up and use it without instruction. And it needs to be usable without looking at the buttons or an lcd screen. Something like the TIVO or DIRECTV remote, where you can tell the various buttons just by feel, after using it only a few times.

Or am I on another wild goose hunt?


Edit: After checking a few review sites, it looks like logitech is the way to go. And with only 4 items to manage (tv, dvd, receiver, dvd), the 650 seems to get the job done. thoughts?

I think the best way to figure out which is best, is to get some hands on time at Best Buy (Just to look, not to buy) of any remotes you are interested in. Assuming of course they carry them.

Did you look over the list I posted? ---> http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?4165-Need-home-theater-advise&p=49167&viewfull=1#post49167
Btw, I did some editing on it.

Edit: I corrected the thread title. And for the record, I did not notice it either.... :P

[coronicus]

Yes logitech harmony stuff is awesome.. own one myself and very easy to program just plug in your model number in there online gui app and voila your good to go. Also with the online deal you can simply drag and drop keys in a gui format for special keys if you wanna move em or can learn directly from the remote source.

[zombie67]

I went with the harmony 650. Super simple to set up, and the "watch TV" macros (or whatever they are called) are perfect! A guest could figure this out easily, without any instruction.

[Duke of Buckingham]

http://wheresmysammich.com/images/14552.jpg

[coronicus]

I went with the harmony 650. Super simple to set up, and the "watch TV" macros (or whatever they are called) are perfect! A guest could figure this out easily, without any instruction.

Yeah i been fighting the remote deal with the wife for years having 5 remotes on the table makes her angry and have tried many dif remotes always something that wouldnt work right or the wife didnt like but with the harmony she finaly mastered it and no more table tops full of remotes.

[Fire$torm]

I went with the harmony 650. Super simple to set up, and the "watch TV" macros (or whatever they are called) are perfect! A guest could figure this out easily, without any instruction.


Yeah i been fighting the remote deal with the wife for years having 5 remotes on the table makes her angry and have tried many dif remotes always something that wouldnt work right or the wife didnt like but with the harmony she finaly mastered it and no more table tops full of remotes.

That's great Z.

Question to both of you guys. Do you think that remote would work well for someone with limited use of their hands? My Uncle is a quadriplegic and could use one "Good" remote. Also is the screen easy to view?

Thx,
F$

[John P. Myers]

Home theater speakers 40% off with promo code EMCJJJA33 (max discount of $240) Ends tonight at midnight PST
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&Depa=0&Description=ppssspeakerpromo&nm_mc=EMC-GD111812&cm_mmc=EMC-GD111812-_-Index-_-MECH-_-Speakers-LB1

[Fire$torm]

Hey Z, I have a question for you.

With the Harmony 650, can you program it to mimic a M$ MCE remote? Looking at option for Z-Wave. Need a good remote for my handicapped Uncle.

Thx in advance,
F$

[zombie67]

With the Harmony 650, can you program it to mimic a M$ MCE remote? Looking at option for Z-Wave. Need a good remote for my handicapped Uncle.

Was that portuguese? ;)

Seriously though, I have no idea bout MCE. I don't have a machine with it. So I would be no better than a google search. Sorry.

[Fire$torm]

Was that portuguese? ;)

Seriously though, I have no idea bout MCE. I don't have a machine with it. So I would be no better than a google search. Sorry.

Ooops sorry. I was referring to Microsoft's Media Center Edition (MCE) remote control http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote

[zombie67]

Ooops sorry. I was referring to Microsoft's Media Center Edition (MCE) remote control http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MCE_Remote

Yeah, I figured it out. But I don't have a machine with MCE. Never used it either.

[Fire$torm]

Yeah, I figured it out. But I don't have a machine with MCE. Never used it either.

Okay. Thx anyhow.