CPU cruncher revisited

[zombie67]

The original goal was an i5 cruncher for $500 (1/2 the cost of an i7M mac mini), with a similar footprint.

The best I/we could do is ~$650, and that is with questionable cooling for the CPU. FAIL.

Okay, fair enough. Maybe the form factor is the problem. Assuming an I7 desktop, with the same poor form factor, this is what that looks like for $715:

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=28838348

Now, the challenge is, can something be built better for less money? Assume the same CPU and HD. A different form factor for the mobo and therefore case, and therefore CPU HS/Fan (or even something like a corsair Hydro). The only GPU requirement is to also fit a single 7970 or 680.

[John P. Myers]

Same memory, but $10 cheaper buying 2 singles: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231488&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL110912&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL110912-_-EMC-110912-Index-_-DesktopMemory-_-20231488-L017C $60 with promo code EMCJJNA89

Antec 300 ATX case: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL110912&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL110912-_-EMC-110912-Index-_-ComputerCases-_-11129042-L0H $30 after rebate plus promo code EMCJJNA32. I have one of these cases and they're pretty decent.

750W PSU: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL110912&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL110912-_-EMC-110912-Index-_-PowerSupplies-_-17139006-L010A $60, same as the PSU you already selected, but more free wattage with promo code EMCJJNA35

Wireless card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833166054&nm_mc=EMC-IGNEFL110912&cm_mmc=EMC-IGNEFL110912-_-EMC-110912-Index-_-WirelessAdapters-_-33166054-L015C $15 with promo code EMCJJNA75

Those must be purchased by Sunday night at midnight for this price. Also free shipping on all above items.

Motherboard: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157303 $70

Corsair H60 - new updated version: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181030 $60 after rebate.

Overall this saves $5, but you get proper cooling and have space for 2 GTX680s/7970s, with more PSU wattage to power it all.

[zombie67]

Thanks and done! I added windows. Originally, the idea was for a purely CPU cruncher, so I was just going to run linux. But now that I am going to spread out my GPUs, windows will come in handy. And there was a $20 promo code for it.

[STE\/E]

I personally don't like the ASUSRock line of Motherboards, I've yet to get one that would OC Properly, for me anyway so I stay away from them. I need to Upgrade a lot of my Box's too the CPU's that is so watch with interest anybody Upgrading theirs, I know Z does a good job at that, Upgrading that is. I just don't know how much longer I want to run BOINC so keep procrastinating about doing it. If I do it then drop out of BOINC It'll just be a big waste of money for me ... :-L

[John P. Myers]

I personally don't like the ASUSRock line of Motherboards, I've yet to get one that would OC Properly, for me anyway so I stay away from them.

Well, since Z was going for the 3770 instead of the 3770K, a highly overclockable board wasn't really required. Helped keep things cheap. I didn't think of this until i read your reply, but now that Z has a more spacious setup with nearly unlimited cooling options, maybe the 3770K makes sense now? Or screw it all and go with a 6-core since the mini-ITX limitations are gone?

[STE\/E]

Well, since Z was going for the 3770 instead of the 3770K, a highly overclockable board wasn't really required. Helped keep things cheap. I didn't think of this until i read your reply, but now that Z has a more spacious setup with nearly unlimited cooling options, maybe the 3770K makes sense now? Or screw it all and go with a 6-core since the mini-ITX limitations are gone?

Was thinking the same thing, for $20 more he can get the K Model ... It's Z's money so let's spend it ... :D

[zombie67]

Was thinking the same thing, for $20 more he can get the K Model ... It's Z's money so let's spend it ... :D

Hmmm. I am thinking I may have screwed up. What is the difference i7-3770 and i7-3770k? I thought the k meant you can't fiddle with all the advanced OC stuff, but you could still OC with simple multiplier. But my BIOS won't let me go over x39. I can't tell if that is because of a BIOS limitation, or the CPU limitation. Or maybe I just can't figure out this BIOS?

Aside from that, everything is working great so far.

[Fire$torm]

Hmmm. I am thinking I may have screwed up. What is the difference i7-3770 and i7-3770k? I thought the k meant you can't fiddle with all the advanced OC stuff, but you could still OC with simple multiplier. But my BIOS won't let me go over x39. I can't tell if that is because of a BIOS limitation, or the CPU limitation. Or maybe I just can't figure out this BIOS?

Aside from that, everything is working great so far.

Sorry Z but K = Unlocked = Ability for true OC.

Otherwise you are stuck with increasing Bus speed but that method has severe limitations.

[STE\/E]

Sorry Z but K = Unlocked = Ability for true OC.

Otherwise you are stuck with increasing Bus speed but that method has severe limitations.

Ditto k=Unlocked

[John P. Myers]

@Z: http://www.legitreviews.com/news/14635/

"The Enhanced Fan Mount is also X/Y axis adjustable, providing the best component and PCI-E compatibility"

[zombie67]

@Z: http://www.legitreviews.com/news/14635/

"The Enhanced Fan Mount is also X/Y axis adjustable, providing the best component and PCI-E compatibility"

Neat! I already ordered the coolermaster version. But this looks like it may be a better option. 6 heat pipes vs. 4, I think. But I don't see it for sale yet.

[zombie67]

Well, the coolermaster was a bust. It blocked the PCIe slot after all. Regardless of the orientation. No idea how that guy in the video made it work.

Next I will try the Thermalright AXP-100....if it is ever available for sale.

Edit: I see that silverstone has a similar form factor case. But instead of having the PSU over the mobo (and limiting the CPU cooler height), they put the included 600w PSU in the front. It costs a couple of HD slots, but who cares? Maybe instead of changing the HS, I change the case.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163212
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=261&area=en

Silversone case incl. 600w PSU = $200
coolermaster case was $50 + 650w PSU that I bought $90 = $140

Now I am in $35 for the low profile HS from coolermaster, and if I stick with this case, I am looking at probably another $50 for the AXP-100.

Maybe I will just change the case instead.

[coronicus]

Man thank you for posting your findings with this unit.. im seriously considering this for another htpc machine for the bedroom and would love to find one that would fit a 7970 and the I7 with good cooling.

[Fire$torm]

Good find on the Silverstone case. Note that you could mod the CM case in a similar fashion but it would take some work. Another option for the CM case would be to do away with all the front drive bay cages in the front. This way you could keep the PSU in the stock location and allow for mounting a 120mm radiator, say from a Corsair Hxx, to the top of the case. Then you could mount a Slim Blu-Ray or DVD drive to the bottom w/ one or more 2.5" HDDs/SSDs stacked above the optical drive.

Edit: The 2nd idea also has the advantage of greater air flow.

[John P. Myers]

New toys for Z

http://emea.kontron.com/products/boards+and+mezzanines/3u+vpx/processor/vx3042.html
http://emea.kontron.com/products/boards+and+mezzanines/3u+vpx/processor/vx3044.html

[zombie67]

New toys for Z

http://emea.kontron.com/products/boards+and+mezzanines/3u+vpx/processor/vx3042.html
http://emea.kontron.com/products/boards+and+mezzanines/3u+vpx/processor/vx3044.html

VPX? What am I, the army? ;). Still, I like the form factor.

15 year support! Can you imagine how worthless a mobile i7 will in 15 years?

[zombie67]

Silverstone case arrived, and now running.


It's about an inch smaller in every dimension.
CPU temps with stock HS were mid 80s before, and are now in the mid 60s, which is just fine. Having the big 180mm case fan blow directly down on the mobo makes a *huge* difference. Much better design. In the CM box, it blew across the board. That doesn't really work for ITX, because the DIMMs block the airflow to the CPU and HS.
The cables from the included PSU are way too long. What were they thinking? They know exactly the size of the application, since it's included. Again, good thing I am not trying to include an optical drive. I need that space just for the PSU cable slop.
With the added head room over the CPU, I was going to try a tall after market HS. But now I see that would not be possible. Just too much cable spaghetti in running through that area. And with the better airflow, I just don't need it. If I was going to OC, I would probably go with that new low profile one, that (hopefully) would not block the PCIe slot.


So now I have a surplus CM case, and a PSU. Anyone interested?

[John P. Myers]

So now I have a surplus CM case, and a PSU. Anyone interested?

Which PSU is it and what are you asking?

The SeaSonic?

[zombie67]

Which PSU is it and what are you asking?

The SeaSonic?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088

Not asking anything. My stuff is always free so long as they are put to use crunching for the team. :-bd

[Fire$torm]

I'll do a mod for you if your interested......

[Fire$torm]

Man I'm too slow tonight.... :P

[zombie67]

Ah! I think I found the solution, two even!

As a reminder, the original goal was to build compact, CPU cruncher, that could beat Mac Mini in performance and cost, and also have a fairly small footprint and power requirement. Bonus for HD4000 GPU to add that to the crunching mix. The Mac Mini stats:

$599: i5-2130M (2.5ghz, 2 core/4 thread mobile) + $40 to upgrade RAM (2x4gb newegg)
$799: i7-3615QM (2.3 ghz, 4 core/8 thread mobile) + $75 to upgrade RAM (2x8gb newegg)
$899: i7-3720QM (2.6 ghz, 4 core/8 thread mobile) + $75 to upgrade RAM (2x8gb newegg)

All come with 2x2gb RAM. You'd be crazy to pay Apple to upgrade from the factory.
All come with a 1tb HD, not that it really matters for a cruncher.
All are Height: 1.4 inches (3.6 cm); Width: 7.7 inches (19.7 cm); Depth: 7.7 inches (19.7 cm)


The primary problem is heat, as I discovered with the cooler master small box build. Use an ITX mobo, and heat becomes a real problem. Especially when you can't fit a big after-market heat sink, or when the airflow is constrained, and not blowing directly down on the motherboard. The DIMMs on the ITX form factor really block airflow going horizontally across the board, preventing it from getting to the small stock heat sink.

Many of the small bare-bones HTPC limit you to very low voltage CPUs, mostly atom and AMD equivalents. A few have 1155 sockets, but limit you to very low voltage i3 or i5, like 35w or less. Almost all have fan-less heat sinks, some with heat pipes to the chassis, using the whole box as a radiator. So the best you can get is 4 threads, with an extremely weak CPU. And even then, you are spending $600-700 in components.

Shuttle has two bare-bones solutions with 1155 socket, up to 65w! They solve it with custom heat sinks with fans. That means real 8 thread i7 desktop CPUs.

XH61V (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101134), is the older, larger version, which includes room for an optical drive. 9.45" x 7.87" x 2.83", 90w PSU, $200.

DS61 (http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/DS61.html) was just announced in November, and not yet available at newegg. I believe the cost will also be ~$200. This is the one that I like. Significantly smaller (7.48" x 6.50" x 1.69"), 90w PSU, about the same size as the mac mini, and no optical drive space. Video of the internals here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qDyfmofMEU).

Here is the cost for the match up:

$200 bare bones
$305 i7-3770S (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116503)
$80 2x8gb SO DIMMs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231582)
$80 2.5" 500gb 7200 HD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136856)
$15 for a usb wireless adaptor

$680 total. I could squeeze $20-40 out of that, if I chose to. Performance-wise, I think this desktop CPU is going to be a much better cruncher than even the top of the line mobile CPU on the Mac Mini. Of course, this does not count the OS, and all the applications that come with OSX, none of which is pertinent to a dedicated cruncher. Linux is free. Or add $100 for win8 64 bit, if you require windows for your favorite project.

I sent newegg an email asking when they will have the DS61 available. :D

[John P. Myers]

Thermalright AXP-100 review (http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/01/15/thermalright_axp100_cpu_air_cooler_review/1) finally somebody found one :D

Considering it's size and purpose, it didn't do too badly at all.

[zombie67]

FYI, my mini-beater is up and crunching now. This little thing is sweet! Took all of 5 minutes to add in the CPU, DIMMs, and HD. Even at full throttle, it's not very loud at all. I think this is going to be my path for CPU crunchers going forward. A stack of these, with a couple of big HAF-X for the GPUs.

Edit: And I see that Newegg now has the DS61 for sale, $199: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101135

[Fire$torm]

Hey Z,

Forgive me but I'm confused. Which type of setup did you settle on? The pre-assembled units or the ITX DIY systems?

[zombie67]

The DS61, with the list of parts a few posts back.

[E-30]

looks ok but i dont have that kniow of cash floting arund