Re-applied thermal paste - computer won't start

[trigggl]

The motherboard/cpu combo Ste\/e sold me, I decided it was time to renew the thermal seal to the cooler. Temps were starting to get unevenly hot on one of the 4 cores and I decided it was time. I found the second-best paste money can buy, pulled it all apart, cleaned and reapplied. Asside from adding a 2nd GPU, I really didn't change anything when I put it all back together, but now the beast won't start. Wondering if it could have been the extra GPU, I pulled it - no change. I pulled the other GPU - still no startup. Now I'm removing the CMOS battery and eating dinner. I seriously doubt I shorted or toasted anything. I certainly don't smell anything toasted and it wasn't running between the time I shutdown and when trying to start after the reassembly. I used an ESD strap through the whole procedure.

When turning the PSU on and then pressing the power button, the fans will light for a half second and then it will all go dead, never to start again until I cycle power on the PSU. Then I can turn it on and it will give the same result.

I pulled the ram and reset it...just in case.

Any ideas out there? The paste is non-conductive. It's Prolimatech PK-1. I don't think I put on too much.

[zombie67]

The motherboard/cpu combo Ste\/e sold me, I decided it was time to renew the thermal seal to the cooler. Temps were starting to get unevenly hot on one of the 4 cores and I decided it was time. I found the second-best paste money can buy, pulled it all apart, cleaned and reapplied. Asside from adding a 2nd GPU, I really didn't change anything when I put it all back together, but now the beast won't start. Wondering if it could have been the extra GPU, I pulled it - no change. I pulled the other GPU - still no startup. Now I'm removing the CMOS battery and eating dinner. I seriously doubt I shorted or toasted anything. I certainly don't smell anything toasted and it wasn't running between the time I shutdown and when trying to start after the reassembly. I used an ESD strap through the whole procedure.

When turning the PSU on and then pressing the power button, the fans will light for a half second and then it will all go dead, never to start again until I cycle power on the PSU. Then I can turn it on and it will give the same result.

I pulled the ram and reset it...just in case.

Any ideas out there? The paste is non-conductive. It's Prolimatech PK-1. I don't think I put on too much.

Did you detach the power cord from the PSU to the mobo, to power the CPU? Sometimes I forget to reattach that, and I get the same symptom (fans blip then nothing).

[trigggl]

Did you detach the power cord from the PSU to the mobo, to power the CPU? Sometimes I forget to reattach that, and I get the same symptom (fans blip then nothing).

After getting something to eat, a strong beer and some prayers from my wife, I found the problem. I didn't hook everything back the way it was. I attached the front USB connector to the 1394 spot. #-oL-)

Time for me to go locate an ID 10 T.

Note to self: Read the manual, not the motherboard.

[Cruncher Pete]

You can take comfort triggle that you are not on your own. I did exactly the same thing as you did. After a few curses and a couple of beers, I pulled out the M/B and run everything on the bench from bare minimum and it worked. Reattaching the unneeded parts for this run, I noticed my mistake. That darned 1394 is too close to the USB and takes a similar pin combination. :mad::o

[Fire$torm]

After getting something to eat, a strong beer and some prayers from my wife, I found the problem. I didn't hook everything back the way it was. I attached the front USB connector to the 1394 spot. #-oL-)

Time for me to go locate an ID 10 T.

Note to self: Read the manual, not the motherboard.

Been there, done that.

But to help bring some comfort, I give you this from wikipedia (Link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_error))


Experts in interaction design such as Alan Cooper believe this concept puts blame in the wrong place, the user, instead of blaming the error-inducing design and its failure to take into account human limitations. Bruce "Tog" Tognazzini describes an anecdote of Dilbert's creator Scott Adams losing a significant amount of work of comment moderation at his blog due to a poorly constructed application that conveyed a wrong mental model, even though the user took explicit care to preserve the data.

Jef Raskin advocated designing devices in ways that prevent erroneous actions. Don Norman suggests changing the common technical attitude towards user error:

"Don't think of the user as making errors; think of the actions as approximations of what is desired"

[STE\/E]

After getting something to eat, a strong beer and some prayers from my wife, I found the problem. I didn't hook everything back the way it was. I attached the front USB connector to the 1394 spot. #-oL-)

Time for me to go locate an ID 10 T.

Note to self: Read the manual, not the motherboard.

Glad you got it going again Trigggl, if I'm not mistaken the USB Hookup's on the DQ6 are pretty well marked but I know mistakes can happen ... ;)

[trigggl]

I don't know why, but Core 0 is still running hot. In fact, Core 1 is kind of high too. Cores 2 and 3 are about where they should be. I wonder if the cooler has a warped surface or something, maybe a loose pipe?

[Cruncher Pete]

Are you using a GPU or two that is using a core each? That would account for that for Donate for example is notorious for high temps.

[trigggl]

Are you using a GPU or two that is using a core each? That would account for that for Donate for example is notorious for high temps.

Well, I'm running DistrRT, which with the 2nd GPU takes up one core. However, the Linux system is pretty good at spreading work around and the GPU temps are lower.

[Fire$torm]

I don't know why, but Core 0 is still running hot. In fact, Core 1 is kind of high too. Cores 2 and 3 are about where they should be. I wonder if the cooler has a warped surface or something, maybe a loose pipe?

Yep, it could be the cooler's cold plate is not perfectly flat. The same could be true of the CPU, in fact most are not. And in the case of Intel Core series of sockets, LGA 1366/1156/1155, the clamshell cover could be interfering with the cold plate. I do not know if this happens with socket 2011.

See the two "tabs" pointing to the center of the socket, if either/both is bent upwards above the top of the CPU, then the cooler cold plate would not be able to make full contact with the CPU.

Socket LGA 1155
http://www.legitreviews.com/images/reviews/1501/socket_1155.jpg

[trigggl]

Here's the offending part of the motherboard. USB items are circled in Red. 1394 items in Yellow. Notice that the USB1 label is closer to the 1394 connector than the text "1394" or the actual USB1 connector.

1266

Nice that I got a picture of the evidence of my folly.

Here's the patient right before I hooked it all up and failed to launch. I wonder if I should flip the cpu fan to blow away from the processor. :-?

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4076/orthrus1.jpg

[Fire$torm]

Nice that I got a picture of the evidence of my folly.

Here's the patient right before I hooked it all up and failed to launch. I wonder if I should flip the cpu fan to blow away from the processor. :-?


Yes but the fan may fail if it doesn't use ball bearings for shaft support. Sleeved bearing fans tend to complain when run upside down.

[trigggl]

Yes but the fan may fail if it doesn't use ball bearings for shaft support. Sleeved bearing fans tend to complain when run upside down.

Technically, it's running vertical either way. It is a tower after all.

[Fire$torm]

Technically, it's running vertical either way. It is a tower after all.

NM...

[kmanley57]

On turning the fan over. You then are pulling some of the warm air the upper case fan would have been trying to exhaust and blowing it back into the case past the CPU heatsink. While right now it blows downward where the case fan will try to exhaust it right out of the case instead.

So it depends on what the side of the case has where the CPU fan is blowing if turned over. Like another case fan blowing out/in or side louvers.

[trigggl]

Now I'm getting random restarts. :confused:

What's odd is that it has nothing to do with whether I'm running the boinc client or not. I shut it down to talk to my daughter on Skype and after a couple minutes of talking the computer just died. It took a couple restarts for it to get going again. I tried the Skype call again and after a minute, dead. I came home last night, screen was blank, mouse and keyboard unresponsive and couldn't get it to return a ping. It had the hard drive access light constantly on, but no other signs of hard drive activity. I disconnected the PATA hard drive just in case that was going out and causing it. It started up, but had the same symptom of lights on nobody home. I should mention all fans (CPU) were full tilt.

I left the side open and looked in. It looked like the motherboard power cord was getting close to the rear exhaust fan. I reached in to pull it away a little bit. That must have changed something because the computer instantly died and then started up normally with the CPU fan coming on at a low setting. So, I took the computer back to the bench (ironing board) and did my best to readjust the cables to be looser and not pushing against anything.

I hooked the computer back up and it started normally. I started running boinc and after a bit, it restarted. It's currently running since last night and I'm typing from it with boinc going full tilt.

Anybody got any ideas of what part could be causing this? Could it be a loose SATA connection, something pressing against a GPU? I'm not getting any S.M.A.R.T. errors. I'm not sure if something is shorting out or if something has a bad connection. I hate intermittent problems. Break or don't. It doesn't turn off and stay off. It dies and then starts back up sometimes working sometimes not.:-<

[Fire$torm]

Based on what you just stated, it sounds like there is a connector problem. Take a close look at both of the 24-pin (Main Power) connectors, male (motherboard) & female (PSU Cable). Check for signs of arcing/scorching/oxidation & misshaped pins. Also inspect the individual wires of the PSU cable, near/around were they enter the 24-pin connector. Look for melted/damaged/missing insulation or other signs of wear.

Edit: Repeat for the 4/8-pin Aux. power connectors.

[STE\/E]

It took a couple restarts for it to get going again. I tried the Skype call again and after a minute, dead. I came home last night, screen was blank, mouse and keyboard unresponsive and couldn't get it to return a ping

That leads me to believe it could be the Power Supply it's self ... When ever I'm getting a lot of shut down and then hard to restart I change the Power supple to either confirm it's the PSU or or it's not the PSU that's causing the problem ...

[trigggl]

Based on what you just stated, it sounds like there is a connector problem. Take a close look at both of the 24-pin (Main Power) connectors, male (motherboard) & female (PSU Cable). Check for signs of arcing/scorching/oxidation & misshaped pins. Also inspect the individual wires of the PSU cable, near/around were they enter the 24-pin connector. Look for melted/damaged/missing insulation or other signs of wear.

Edit: Repeat for the 4/8-pin Aux. power connectors.

I finally got around to this. The 8 pin connector has a lot of heat damage and 3 of the pins are blackened. Basically, the power side has been getting hot enough to melt the connector. That's apparently why moving the connector around caused it to start and not start. The pins are blackened, so it wouldn't have had a good connection. Question is, why was it getting so hot? I tested the power supply before installing the board. I even checked for AC where should only be DC.

I used this PSU with the AMD X6, so I'm pretty sure it should be able to handle this. I'm going to re-configure where some connectors are going to and see if things can get more stable. It's actually been running pretty stable for the past week. There's an extra connector on the board that I didn't think I needed to connect to, since the PSU connects directly into the GPU's, but I'm going to hook it up, now. Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to clean up the 8-pin connector.

[Fire$torm]

I finally got around to this. The 8 pin connector has a lot of heat damage and 3 of the pins are blackened. Basically, the power side has been getting hot enough to melt the connector. That's apparently why moving the connector around caused it to start and not start. The pins are blackened, so it wouldn't have had a good connection. Question is, why was it getting so hot? I tested the power supply before installing the board. I even checked for AC where should only be DC.

I used this PSU with the AMD X6, so I'm pretty sure it should be able to handle this. I'm going to re-configure where some connectors are going to and see if things can get more stable. It's actually been running pretty stable for the past week. There's an extra connector on the board that I didn't think I needed to connect to, since the PSU connects directly into the GPU's, but I'm going to hook it up, now. Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to clean up the 8-pin connector.

That 8-pin connector supplies power to the PCI-E slots. So most likely its your GPUs that are cooking the connector. The other possibility is a faulty connection within the PSU or MB (or both) 8-pins.

[John P. Myers]

I doubt it's the PSU's fault. 8-pin connectors are rated (not limited) at 150W but if whatever they're plugged into tries to draw more than that, say 200W or 250W, then it will be delivered, overheating the wires. The more power connections you can plug in, the better as it will reduce the current between any individual connection and keep the heat down.

[trigggl]

I doubt it's the PSU's fault. 8-pin connectors are rated (not limited) at 150W but if whatever they're plugged into tries to draw more than that, say 200W or 250W, then it will be delivered, overheating the wires. The more power connections you can plug in, the better as it will reduce the current between any individual connection and keep the heat down.

And that's what that extra motherboard connector is for (PCI-e). I didn't want to bother to route something to it, but I guess I shot myself in the foot when I didn't and added a 2nd GPU. That's another thing I reconfigured. I used adapters for two of the GPU power connectors, but I put them both on the same GPU. Now I've got them split between the two with the PSU supplied 6-pin connectors also split between the 2. I'm using all the PATA-styple 4-pin connectors, now so I removed the PATA hard drive that I wasn't using.

Hopefully, I've got everything distributed correctly with good connections now and it will just work. [-O<

Wrapping it up now and getting ready for a power check.

EDIT: No such luck. The connector is just too loose. It didn't work correctly until I pulled the connector back to the tab lock. Pushing it all the way down doesn't work. I'm typing on it now, but for how long? If I put the cover on, will it stay running or will I need to take the cover off to adjust it again? I need to replace the connector if at all possible. The heat did too much damage to it.

[c303a]

If you have an old dead psu with the same cable you can cut the old cable and splice it into your psu. Just make sure you solder and heat shrink the connections. If you don't have one I am sure someone around here has one they would be willing to send to you.

Do you need the regular 4 pin connector to the cpu power or is it a 8 pin connector?

[trigggl]

If you have an old dead psu with the same cable you can cut the old cable and splice it into your psu. Just make sure you solder and heat shrink the connections. If you don't have one I am sure someone around here has one they would be willing to send to you.

Do you need the regular 4 pin connector to the cpu power or is it a 8 pin connector?

It's the 8-pin. The box rebooted once today, but has been fairly consistant otherwise.

Now my Isuzu Rodeo is another matter. I've got 3 different leaks to fix and had to mail order 2 expensive parts today that I'll need to complete the repairs. It's seems like everything I own is determined to break.

[Fire$torm]

It's the 8-pin. The box rebooted once today, but has been fairly consistant otherwise.

Now my Isuzu Rodeo is another matter. I've got 3 different leaks to fix and had to mail order 2 expensive parts today that I'll need to complete the repairs. It's seems like everything I own is determined to break.

Murphy's Law sucks!

[Slicker]

It's the 8-pin. The box rebooted once today, but has been fairly consistant otherwise.

Now my Isuzu Rodeo is another matter. I've got 3 different leaks to fix and had to mail order 2 expensive parts today that I'll need to complete the repairs. It's seems like everything I own is determined to break.

I had a late 90's Isuzu Rodeo which came with heavy duty brush guards, hitches, and real 4WD. If yours is that old, that would explain why it is starting to break down. Everything with moving parts goes at some point - PSUs, water pumps, transmissions, knees....

[trigggl]

I had a late 90's Isuzu Rodeo which came with heavy duty brush guards, hitches, and real 4WD. If yours is that old, that would explain why it is starting to break down. Everything with moving parts goes at some point - PSUs, water pumps, transmissions, knees....

Well, it's a relatively new radiator that's leaking. One of the other leaks is the water pump, which is overdue to be replaced anyways. The 3rd is my power steering high pressure line. I won the Rodeo High Pressure power steering line lottery. The one for a '97 Rodeo with a 2.6L engine costs 4x more than any other for any other year or engine type. You can get a $35 aftermarket hose for any other year or engine. You can get $45 OEM for any other year or engine. Mine = (OEM only) $190

On the PSU front, I have the 1K PSU on my wife's computer that I can swap out with the one sitting idle I put in the Dell case. 550W should be enough for one GTX 465, right? If a 1k can't do a dual GTX 460, nothing can. Anyone have any ideas on the best way to clean the carbon off of the motherboard pins?

[kmanley57]

Anyone have any ideas on the best way to clean the carbon off of the motherboard pins?

Well, I use to use an X-Acto blade "carefully' for the heavy build-ups, and then a white eraser to polish the plating back up. But if you burnt it very bad you probably took the plating off, so it will start corroding again pretty fast anyway. AKA Burn city rematch!

You also might try a very small file to get into the connector, but they are hard to find sometimes.

[Fire$torm]

Well, it's a relatively new radiator that's leaking. One of the other leaks is the water pump, which is overdue to be replaced anyways. The 3rd is my power steering high pressure line. I won the Rodeo High Pressure power steering line lottery. The one for a '97 Rodeo with a 2.6L engine costs 4x more than any other for any other year or engine type. You can get a $35 aftermarket hose for any other year or engine. You can get $45 OEM for any other year or engine. Mine = (OEM only) $190

On the PSU front, I have the 1K PSU on my wife's computer that I can swap out with the one sitting idle I put in the Dell case. 550W should be enough for one GTX 465, right? If a 1k can't do a dual GTX 460, nothing can. Anyone have any ideas on the best way to clean the carbon off of the motherboard pins?

I'm fairly sure you don't want to go this route but replacing the pins is the best option IMO. Short of that some form of carbon remover spray should work. i would suggest testing the spray on an old un-used MB or circuit board like a dead GPU. If the spray doesn't eat away at any of the components\circuit board on the guinea pig, it will be safe to use on the pins.

[trigggl]

I'm fairly sure you don't want to go this route but replacing the pins is the best option IMO. Short of that some form of carbon remover spray should work. i would suggest testing the spray on an old un-used MB or circuit board like a dead GPU. If the spray doesn't eat away at any of the components\circuit board on the guinea pig, it will be safe to use on the pins.

How about brake cleaner? JK

A couple days ago, the system quit again. I decided it was time to give up on that Antec 650W that was in it and swap it out with a known good PSU. I left my wife's computer alone (because she was using it at the time) and decided to downsize back to one GTX 460 instead of the two. Then I robbed the Antec 550W PSU from the Dell case that's not currently in service. I'm not going to try to float 2 GPU's on this PSU.

I took the chance of just hooking it up and seeing if it would run. So far, so good. Moving PSU's around is hard enough when you're doing one. It would take all day if I tried to do 2. Getting tired of re-doing all the cable management. I highly recommend keeping large quantities of cable ties handy.

Hopefully, this is the conclusion to this issue.#:-s