Haswell Refresh

[John P. Myers]

If you currently have a Haswell CPU, updates are coming as soon as May if you're not into overclocking. If you want a shiney new i7-4790K, you'll need to wait until June. The 4790 is expected to come in at 3.6GHz stock, compared to 3.4GHz on a 4770, and 3.5GHz on a 4770K/4771. No specs on the 4790K available.

If you don't currently have Haswell, but were thinking about upgrading, save your money. Broadwell comes out in the fall. No specs on that yet either, but Intel has said they expect a 30% reduction in power usage with Broadwell, mainly because it'll be made on a 14nm process, where Haswell and Ivy Bridge are 22nm.

Also expect Haswell-E late summer or early fall. Finally time for DDR4 8-core desktop CPUs :D

Also expect motherboard makers to go completely insane trying to keep up with all of these things happening at once :)

Nvidia's new Maxwell architecture is also coming, probably starting sround March, but they're giving us the entry level chip first, which will basically mean upgrades for the GT 630 and 640. It'll be a few months later for the mid and high-end GPUs.

A ton of stuff happening this year ensuring we get more BOINCing done using less power and producing less heat. This will be a great year.

[Duke of Buckingham]

Hey zombie that is what I have, the I7 4770k is feeding 2 GPUs and running 6 cores at full speed, I am very happy with that CPU but I understand John P. Myers is asking for more.

The real deal of the my CPU is doing all that with a UPS of 420W and is not using all power, very good consumption for all those things, I am very happy with mine CPU.

Very Crazy Duke crunching all around.:-bd

[Fire$torm]

Hey JPM I have a question (in three parts)

Pricing for Haswell Refresh, Broadwell & price drops for Pre-Refresh?

[John P. Myers]

Hey JPM I have a question (in three parts)

Pricing for Haswell Refresh, Broadwell & price drops for Pre-Refresh?

Price drops for pre-refresh: most likely none
Pricing for refresh: higher than prices for the chips the refreshed ones are meant to replace, but not much higher. Most likely $5 to $30 more depending on the chip.

I say this because if you recall, there was a Sandy Bridge refresh, but they didn't call it that. I guess because they didn't release as many new chips as they're planning to this time (around 20). For SB, the 2600K was top of the line until the refresh, then you could get a 2700K. They even released a 2550K with no IGP (technically it was still there, just fused off). When this happened, there were no noticeable price drops on the chips that already existed so i expect the same pattern here.

Broadwell pricing: ehh....that's really tough. Really depends on if they use the multi-chip design on the non-BGA parts. No reliable sources for pricing yet, and probably won't be until Intel actually starts mass production of Broadwell which, as of 8 hours ago, is still on schedule to begin in Feb/March.

[John P. Myers]

Pricing for Haswell Refresh, Broadwell...
Rumor has it the Intel HD 5200 graphics, aka GT3e, aka Iris Pro, will be available on the high-end Broadwell desktop CPUs. This is great news performance-wise, but will most definitely affect pricing. With GT3e you get double the execution units found in a 4770K (or anything using HD 4600). However there's also talk that the number of EUs will be increased by 20% across the board for the Broadwell line, meaning you'd go from a 4770K with 20 EUs to a 5770K with 48 EUs. On top of that, you also get 128MB of on-die eDRAM used by GT3e. The eDRAM also functions as L4 cache.

With the addition of EUs in the IGP, it's likely "GT3e" may be renamed. Broadwell will still offer 4 cores at best and still use DDR3.

[zombie67]

Folks have been surprised that Apple hasn't refreshed the mac mini since late 2012. It's still shipping with IB. In fairness, they were busy refreshing all their other models. But only the mac mini is left, and it's been a while since they finished all the other models. I wonder if apple thought a haswell version this close to the haswell refresh didn't make sense, and so is waiting for it?

Mac Mini uses the mobile version(s) of the CPU. What hews on that, with regard to the haswell refresh?

[DrPop]

@Z - that makes sense, because I know Apple uses a lot of the integrated graphics on the smaller form factor rigs, and if they knew a Haswell refresh was coming with the better integrated GPU - I'm sure that would be more beneficial for them to wait. I just wonder how soon we'll see them in retail?

[John P. Myers]

From what I recall there's no igp improvement on the Haswell refresh. Just Broadwell. There are some new mobile Haswell parts coming. I'll dig it up when I get home from work.

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro

[DrPop]

Oh man, that's lame. So you mean NO integrated GPU improvement until Broadwell - which is a new socket - so "it is what it is" on Haswell? Guess the refresh is just for a few MHz bump then? :confused: Doesn't hardly seem worth it...

[Fire$torm]

Oh man, that's lame. So you mean NO integrated GPU improvement until Broadwell - which is a new socket - so "it is what it is" on Haswell? Guess the refresh is just for a few MHz bump then? :confused: Doesn't hardly seem worth it...

That's what happens when Intel's only competitor has fallen flat on their faces and can't get up again.........

[John P. Myers]

Folks have been surprised that Apple hasn't refreshed the mac mini since late 2012. It's still shipping with IB. In fairness, they were busy refreshing all their other models. But only the mac mini is left, and it's been a while since they finished all the other models. I wonder if apple thought a haswell version this close to the haswell refresh didn't make sense, and so is waiting for it?

Mac Mini uses the mobile version(s) of the CPU. What hews on that, with regard to the haswell refresh?
After looking it up again, it seems only 9 of the Haswell refresh CPUs are (kinda) known so far. The other 11 are still a mystery. Of those 9, the i3-4150T is the only one that might be used in a NUC. Dual core @ 2.9 GHz, 35W TDP.

[zombie67]

Thanks for the info. Mac Minis use i7-3615QM (4 core, 2.3ghz, 45w) and i7-3720QM (4 core, 2.6ghz, 45w). So the replacement would be something similar but better, I assume.

[John P. Myers]

New rumor today is that the Haswell refresh will be launched 1 month earlier than planned, meaning April instead of May.

[John P. Myers]

Rumor has it the Intel HD 5200 graphics, aka GT3e, aka Iris Pro, will be available on the high-end Broadwell desktop CPUs. This is great news performance-wise, but will most definitely affect pricing. With GT3e you get double the execution units found in a 4770K (or anything using HD 4600). However there's also talk that the number of EUs will be increased by 20% across the board for the Broadwell line, meaning you'd go from a 4770K with 20 EUs to a 5770K with 48 EUs. On top of that, you also get 128MB of on-die eDRAM used by GT3e. The eDRAM also functions as L4 cache.

With the addition of EUs in the IGP, it's likely "GT3e" may be renamed. Broadwell will still offer 4 cores at best and still use DDR3.
Confirmed! Well, the number of EUs hasn't been confirmed, but the unlocked K series desktop Broadwell CPUs will have Iris Pro graphics :D

Also confirmed are some new unlocked Haswell CPUs available "mid-year". They are improving the TIM on these new Haswells and are supposedly "re-engineered for enhanced performance and overclocking."

Haswell-E will still have an 8-core processor and still support DDR4.

All of this confirmed by Intel itself.

[DrPop]

Sounds nicer than the original MHz bump, that's for sure. What I'd like to see is the performance of one of these new special O/Cing chips w/ the iris pro graphics...and then turn the graphics OFF and use that 128MB onboard as a giant cache. :D. Now that would be a crunching chip. Could you imagine going from 8 to 128MB of cache? Sure it would be what, like L4, but it's got to give some performance gain because of the sheer size of it. :)

[John P. Myers]

Booooooo @ Intel

Here's how it looks like it's going to work out:
Haswell refresh non-K series will work on current 8-series motherboards, such as ones with the Z87 chipset, etc.
Haswell refresh non-K series will *also* work on the upcoming 9 series motherboards
Official launch is May 11th.

Pricing for an i7-4790 non-K looks to be about $330.

Haswell refresh K series *WILL NOT* work on current 8-series motherboards :mad:
Official launch is in June during Computex

The 9-series motherboards will be available in April, though you won't have any CPUs to put in them :/ Possibly retailers won't bother trying to sell them til May because of this. Or maybe they will...like....Newegg!!! Gigabyte GA-Z97-UD7 $209.99 On sale now for $289.99 Add to cart. See what other people bought with this purchase: *you notice listings for an i7-2600K and a Titan Z, which you can get in a combo deal for only $4289.50!! (you save $0.49!!!1!!!one!!!)*

*cough*

Haswell-E is looking like September and the fewest number of cores you can get on one of those CPUs is 6 (as of right now).

@Zombie: Alright we've got the 4810MQ (yes, it's not QM this time, but MQ) 4 cores/8 threads, 2.8GHz (3.8GHz turbo), HD4600 graphics (the 3720QM has HD4000), 47W Seems to be about on par with what you have.

[zombie67]

Thanks for the info! Maybe Apple will announce a new Mac mini with that chip.

[DrPop]

What a crock. Wonder what they're going to claim is their "necessity" to put the K chip on the 9 chipset motherboards? Pretty weak sauce, considering the non K CPUs can work on both. There's absolutely no difference other than a locked / unlocked multi. To claim they need a new chipset for that is to admit we just lost 25 years of technology in an instant! :p

[Fire$torm]

Well Jed, you can thank AMD for Intel's current need to gouge the hell out of the market. Had AMD not been playing the "Let's see how cheap we can get" in regards to real, bona fide R&D for so many years. Now they are too far behind the curve and can never again bite at Intel's heels.

[John P. Myers]

April 14th for new non-K CPUs
May 11th for 9-series motherboards

[John P. Myers]

May 11th for 9-series motherboards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627%20600491547&IsNodeId=1&name=Intel%20Z97 :)


Confirmed! Well, the number of EUs hasn't been confirmed, but the unlocked K series desktop Broadwell CPUs will have Iris Pro graphics :D

Confirmed 48 EUs on Broadwell's Iris Pro

[John P. Myers]

Many models of new motherboards with the Z97 chipset have been released today. AnandTech did a review of 3 Haswell refresh chips, the i7-4790, i5-4690 and i3-4360: http://www.anandtech.com/show/7963/the-intel-haswell-refresh-review-core-i7-4790-i5-4690-and-i3-4360-tested

Nothing special over regular Haswell, but these boards are supposed to be compatible with Broadwell, so at least there's an upgrade path. All regular Haswell CPUs are compatible with the new Z97 chipset.

[John P. Myers]

Gigabyte breaks 9 world records with their new Z97X-SOC Force (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128704)motherboard. Read about it here: http://www.gigabyte.us/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid=1282

[Fire$torm]

Gigabyte breaks 9 world records with their new Z97X-SOC Force (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128704)motherboard. Read about it here: http://www.gigabyte.us/press-center/news-page.aspx?nid=1282

Sweet. Overlooking all the Crazy CPU Overclocking features, I really like the OC Ignition, which actually doesn't directly impact OC but can be very useful.

....OC Ignition also allows users to pre-test water cooling setups, and allows case mod demonstrations without having to turn on the PC.

[John P. Myers]

I5-4690K and i7-4790K most likely launching in June still. Next month :D Still no word on pricing but expect the 4790K to cost a bit more than the 4770K does. Intel is still staying true to what they said about improving the heatspreader and thermal interface material (TIM) on the 4690K and 4790K. Other than that, the 4690K is nothing special, just a 100 MHz increase in clock speeds. But the 4790K is expected to have a base clock of 4 GHz and turbo up to 4.4 GHz.

[Fire$torm]

Okay, according to Wikipedia, release prices were as follows

Core i7-960 = $562
Core i7-2700K = $332
Core i7-3770K = $313
Core i7-4770K = $339

I know this may not be a true "Apples to Apples" comparison but would a guess for the 4790K release price of $350~$375 seem reasonable? Or would Intel's current market dominance allow for a higher target?

Edit: Just noticed that MicroCenter (in-store only) price for the 4770K is $269.99. I wonder how long it will take them to offer a similar in-store discount for the 4790K...

[John P. Myers]

Yeah $375 seems reasonable, but I'm sure there might be a hefty premium for a 500 mhz speed increase, plus the improved TIM plus it's Intel's first CPU at 4ghz. We shall see

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro

[zombie67]

When does the big count core arrive again?

[DrPop]

Yeah $375 seems reasonable, but I'm sure there might be a hefty premium for a 500 mhz speed increase, plus the improved TIM plus it's Intel's first CPU at 4ghz...

You were close! ;) Looks like Intel decided on $362 for Devil's Canyon. Info is here (http://www.anandtech.com/show/8046/pricing-and-details-for-intels-devils-canyon-and-unlocked-pentium-leaked-online-i7-4790k-i5-4690k-g3258).

[John P. Myers]

@Z September

@ DrPop glad they didn't add a nostalgia fee to it :)

Sent from my Galaxy S4 using Tapatalk Pro

[John P. Myers]

When does the big count core arrive again?

1748

Still September

[zombie67]

I wonder what they will charge for the i7-5960k.

[DrPop]

Hmmm...looking at efficiency here, what a trade off. The TDP looks great actually - 140W for "2" Haswells, that would be like 70W TDP each. Problem is, the clock is down to 3GHz. :p Devil's Canyon Haswell will be what, and additional 1.5GHz right out of the box?

[John P. Myers]

I'd expect the 5960X would overclock way above the stock 3 GHz and that they only set this speed to keep heat low on the stock Intel cooler. With a better cooler, you should be able to reach 4.2 GHz without trying very hard, barring any quirkiness from the DDR4.

[Fire$torm]

DDR4 quirks? New tech never has any quirks! At least according to companies like *cough* *cough* Apple.

[John P. Myers]

Devil's Canyon IS compatible with Z87 motherboards, it turns out. Previously Intel had worded a slide to make it appear it wouldn't be. Marketing BS.

Extra capacitors have been added to the underside of the Devil's Canyon CPUs which are supposedly going to help make overclocking better and aid in stability. Better thermals, etc. etc.

According to Intel, they will be available at the end of the month, with reviewers getting samples in a week or so.

1753

[DrPop]

Sweet! :)
Is there anything to that asterisk after the PCI-Express on the slide? Just curious. Anyway, this looks like what we expected the regular Haswell to be - if it delivers, the enthusiast community is going to be happy again.

[Fire$torm]

I'm sure that asterisk is just a footnote. Probably stating something about all PCIe channel availability dependent on MB configuration, or some such thing.

[Duke of Buckingham]

I am very happy that you all can write and speak Chinese.

[John P. Myers]

I'm sure that asterisk is just a footnote. Probably stating something about all PCIe channel availability dependent on MB configuration, or some such thing.

Right. It's just the PCIe configurations. Can be either 1x16, 2x8 or 1x8+2x4. Standard stuff.

[John P. Myers]

Devil's Canyon breaks world records achieving over 5.5Ghz with air cooling at Computex 2014 http://www.extremetech.com/computing/183708-overclockers-push-new-devils-canyon-haswell-to-5-5ghz-on-air-6-4ghz-with-ln2 Included in this article is a picture of the extra capacitors added and compared side by side.

[zombie67]

What is devil's canyon again? Is that the name of the haswell refresh?

[DrPop]

It is only the new "made for O/C" Haswell refresh CPU. There were several other refresh chips, but this one has the new TIM and capacitors so actually should see some difference with it.

[John P. Myers]

What is devil's canyon again? Is that the name of the haswell refresh?

Specifically it's the i7-4790K and the i5-4690K that are called Devil's Canyon. There's also a 20th Anniversary Pentium (dual core, 3.2GHz, unlocked, socket 1150) but it's technically not part of Devil's Canyon even though it launched at the same time.

[John P. Myers]

Release date June 25th for $340-$350 (i7-4790K). If using on a Z87 motherboard, be sure you can get a BIOS update supporting this CPU before purchasing.

[aux9o]

I have been thinking about upgrading my old q9400 and mother board. I might do this when they come out.

[John P. Myers]

Release date June 25th for $340-$350 (i7-4790K). If using on a Z87 motherboard, be sure you can get a BIOS update supporting this CPU before purchasing.

And it's the 25th already. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117369

[EmSti]

I will be getting one some time soon, I am resisting until I get the miner stuff going. Finish getting value from one set of purchases first.

[Fire$torm]

Okay guys here is the lowest I've found so far but it's in-store only $279.99 at MicroCenter. (http://www.microcenter.com/product/434176/Core_i7-4790K_40GHz_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor)

I'd make an offer to the team to buy and ship at no profit but with tax and shipping it total out at just under $307.

Amazon has the next best price at $299.99 with free shipping (http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i7-4790S-1150-BX80646I74790S/dp/B00J6F5LR2/ref=sr_1_4/184-1931845-2867057?ie=UTF8&qid=1403717408&sr=8-4&keywords=i7-4790k)

Oh and btw, I am available for adoption to anyone with lots of disposable income.....

[Duke of Buckingham]

Okay guys here is the lowest I've found so far but it's in-store only $279.99 at MicroCenter. (http://www.microcenter.com/product/434176/Core_i7-4790K_40GHz_LGA_1150_Boxed_Processor)

I'd make an offer to the team to buy and ship at no profit but with tax and shipping it total out at just under $307.

Amazon has the next best price at $299.99 with free shipping (http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i7-4790S-1150-BX80646I74790S/dp/B00J6F5LR2/ref=sr_1_4/184-1931845-2867057?ie=UTF8&qid=1403717408&sr=8-4&keywords=i7-4790k)

Oh and btw, I am available for adoption to anyone with lots of disposable income.....

Man adopted from someone that loves me as father ... thanks F$.:D

[DrPop]

Unfortunately I'm not real impressed with the Devil's Canyon as an "upgrade" only. So before building my 3rd rig I'm going to wait for the Haswell-e to come out on the X99 platform and then see. If it's not worth whatever Intel will want for it, then I'll be up for one of these after all, I guess. :confused:

[zombie67]

Unfortunately I'm not real impressed with the Devil's Canyon as an "upgrade" only. So before building my 3rd rig I'm going to wait for the Haswell-e to come out on the X99 platform and then see. If it's not worth whatever Intel will want for it, then I'll be up for one of these after all, I guess. :confused:

Agreed. I want the new >4 core intel CPU to replace my lone i7-3770. Anything less than that is just spending money for fun. I've done plenty of that in the past. :D But for now, I am waiting.