New mac mini!

[zombie67]

Finally! Apple announced a new mac mini, updated with all the latest CPUs and other tech. And for $100 less than the 2 year old 2012 model. I predict plunging prices for the used 2012 models. I might just have to start on a second stack. :D

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/55884901/crunchers.jpg

[Maxwell]

Finally! Apple announced a new mac mini, updated with all the latest CPUs and other tech. And for $100 less than the 2 year old 2012 model. I predict plunging prices for the used 2012 models. I might just have to start on a second stack. :D
So, a) How many ounces is that beer can? and b) do these things have built-in wifi?

[zombie67]

So, a) How many ounces is that beer can? and b) do these things have built-in wifi?

a) Uh, the normal amount, 12 oz.

b) Of course. ~75 watts each, with 8 CPU threads each. Most have GPUs too.

[Fire$torm]

According to the Mac website the new ones only come as Core i5 or Core i7 Daul-Core CPUs. (Link (http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-mini?product=MGEQ2LL/A&step=config))

And btw, what in tarnation is a "Fusion" Drive? Is that just Apple-Speak for a SSD?

[John P. Myers]

According to the Mac website the new ones only come as Core i5 or Core i7 Daul-Core CPUs. (Link (http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/mac-mini?product=MGEQ2LL/A&step=config))

And btw, what in tarnation is a "Fusion" Drive? Is that just Apple-Speak for a SSD?

LOL i like how they think it's ok to charge $200 extra for the 0.2 GHz faster CPU, and another $200 for 8GB of RAM. And another $200 for a $100 printer. F-ing ridiculous.

Btw their "fusion" drive thing is known as a hybrid drive to the rest of the planet :p

[zombie67]

Yes, the new mini i7 is only dual core with HT (Uh, intel...that's not an i7 then). But I don't care about that. I am interested in the 2012 model, which is quad core w/ HT.

The Fusion drive is an SSD+HD, which looks like a single drive to the OS.

[Maxwell]

Yes, the new mini i7 is only dual core with HT (Uh, intel...that's not an i7 then).
I just had to buy a new laptop for work, and it was harder than hell to actually find a real i7 and not a "dual core i7". Pissed me right the hell off.

[Fire$torm]

Yeah, I figured it was Apple spin.

So Z, where would be a good site to find the 2012 model at reasonable prices?

[cineon_lut]

Sweet little stack you have going there @Zombie! any heat issues with them stacked on top like that? I've never crunched BOINC with one of our quad core i7 minis (they're used as mini-servers) but I have done some heavy CPU + GPU processing on them for projects and they can get warm.

I opt away from the fusion drive...it's actually not an option on the server, and it's not too hard to just get a SSD, then cram another spinner in there.

[zombie67]

Yeah, I figured it was Apple spin.

So Z, where would be a good site to find the 2012 model at reasonable prices?

I am not currently shopping, but when I do, I use ebay. I just set up a search, and then get the email notifications as new items are added. I doubt they have dropped already. And I am doubtful that the 4 core versions will drop that much, since you can't get that with the new model.

[zombie67]

Sweet little stack you have going there @Zombie! any heat issues with them stacked on top like that? I've never crunched BOINC with one of our quad core i7 minis (they're used as mini-servers) but I have done some heavy CPU + GPU processing on them for projects and they can get warm.

You know those flat carpenters pencils? I insert two in-between each machine, front to back, one on each side. Then I have one of those little USB fans blowing on the front of the stack to make sure none of the hot exhaust out the back is being recirculated back in.


I opt away from the fusion drive...it's actually not an option on the server, and it's not too hard to just get a SSD, then cram another spinner in there.

When buying used minis for dedicated crunchers, I don't care about what storage they have. That farm has a mix of single and dual, SSDs and HDs. The only modification I make, is upgrading them to 16gb, if they aren't 16gb already.

[pinhodecarlos]

Can you install linux or windows on the mac-mini? Where can I find the specs about the processor, I need to know if they are avx compatible.

[zombie67]

All my mac minis have windows and linux VMs. So they can (and do) crunch for all three OSs.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_mini/index-macmini.html

The late 2012 model comes with Ivy Bridge (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_Bridge_(microarchitecture)#Mobile_processors) processors, either i5 (dual core) or i7 (quad core) CPUs. For the i7s, there were two versions available:

Standard: 2.3 GHz, I7-3615QM (http://ark.intel.com/products/64900/Intel-Core-i7-3615QM-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_30-GHz)
Option: 2.6 GHz, I7-3720QM (http://ark.intel.com/products/64891/Intel-Core-i7-3720QM-Processor-6M-Cache-up-to-3_60-GHz)

Both support AVX1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions). AVX2 requires Haswell or later.

[pinhodecarlos]

Thank you.
I am already thinking what machines should I buy to start building my farm. Although I have plenty of space at home, here in the UK, this thread just gave me some ideas.

[zombie67]

There are some similar DYI options out there, but I haven't found anything cheaper, with more bang for the buck. But here are a couple of them for your consideration:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101142 (I actually built this machine a while back)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164012

The problem is that once you add all the components necessary, you are well over the cost of a used mac mini.

[pinhodecarlos]

Just found I can't use mac mini's for my LLR crunching. Those are mobile processors and therefore using LLR I have memory bottleneck issues. Right now only using two cores out of 4 on my i7-3630QM.
I'll take a look on those two links, I just hope they can well dissipated heat that is generated by LLR or Prime95.

Carlos

[cineon_lut]

All my mac minis have windows and linux VMs. So they can (and do) crunch for all three OSs.


I know you've probably answered this, but what is your pref to host VMs on a Mac? Parallels or VMware? Something else? Need to build a few for work.

Cheers

[zombie67]

Just found I can't use mac mini's for my LLR crunching. Those are mobile processors and therefore using LLR I have memory bottleneck issues. Right now only using two cores out of 4 on my i7-3630QM.
I'll take a look on those two links, I just hope they can well dissipated heat that is generated by LLR or Prime95.

Carlos

I have never had a problem crunching LLR tasks on primegrid.

Also, I don't recall LLR ever using much ram at all. Almost none, compared to some other projects.

[zombie67]

I know you've probably answered this, but what is your pref to host VMs on a Mac? Parallels or VMware? Something else? Need to build a few for work.

Cheers

I use virtual box. It's free and works just fine.

[pinhodecarlos]

I have never had a problem crunching LLR tasks on primegrid.

Also, I don't recall LLR ever using much ram at all. Almost none, compared to some other projects.

It is not a problem on how much memory it uses, it is about loosing performance as you increase the number of candidates tested in parallel. Memory saturation. Those mobile cpu's have small cache.

[zombie67]

Hmm. For the number of memory channels the Max Memory Bandwidth, they are 2 and 25.6 GB/s respectively. These numbers are identical to the desktop IB CPU i7-3770k. The only difference is 6mb of cache for the mobile chip, compared to 8mb for the desktop chip.

How are you measuring the usage of cache? If that last two mb of cache is really that critical for you, then it looks like only desktop i7 chips (or better) will do.

In that case, and you still want something similar in form-factor, I suggest one of the other solutions I listed above. They will be significantly more expensive though, and consume more power.

Edit: Just to be clear, they both use the "S" version of the desktop processor, which uses less power and runs at only 65w. So not quite as fast as the "K" versions. But they have 8gb cache. The Gigabyte brix I listed even uses the haswell i7, which has AVX2, if that is important.

Brix system cost with no OS:
Brix: $590 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164012) (including $60 off)
2x8gb: $165 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231705)
2.5" 750gb HD: $65 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236561) (including $25 off)

Total: $820 + Tax + S&H + OS (if Windows)

For comparison, I was spending $600 +/- ~$75 per mac mini when I bough mine.

[pinhodecarlos]

What is happening, and you can check the mersenneforum.org, is that as you add more threads in Prime95/mprime/LLR, with low speed memory like 1600 MHz, the iteration time will increase exponential. Even with DDR3 memory at 2400 MHz there is a bottleneck. Also it happens with low Intel® Smart Cache memory, like 6 or 8 or 10 MB. Actually, I am using a 12 core server and if I am not mistaken it has 20 MB cache and when the 8th and upper threads are turned on, the iteration times just increase on the rest of the threads by 20-30 %.
I was wondering if this happens with DDR4 and on i7-59xx series.

Do you think there will be heat issues on those Barebones ? I think so...
Avx 2.0 is important for prime search but also increases temps on the CPU's so good coolers are necessary.

Anyway, the mac mini's are a good choice and solution for other projects.

[zombie67]

Ah. If that is true, then no desktop or mobile CPU solutions will work for you. Your only choice is server CPUs, or maybe the 6/8 core intel desktop chip. But even then, the memory speeds are still going to be a problem.

A thought occurs to me. Rather than spending so much on the top end parts like that (~$2-3k), you could buy two or more lesser machines and have better total production.

As for heat, I have not had problems with my mac minis. Not sure of the brix.

[pinhodecarlos]

Well, I already asked for dual Intel Xeon E5-2697 V3a budged. By my calculations is it cheaper than having to buy 4-5 top desktop machines. The initial investment is almost the same but the dual will consume less energy although I am not sure of its production but they are AVX 2.0 friendly. Also it will be easier to babysit, less space on my home, etc.

[John P. Myers]

Well, I already asked for dual Intel Xeon E5-2697 V3a budged. By my calculations is it cheaper than having to buy 4-5 top desktop machines. The initial investment is almost the same but the dual will consume less energy although I am not sure of its production but they are AVX 2.0 friendly. Also it will be easier to babysit, less space on my home, etc.

You would need 7 computers with quad core CPUs and hyperthreading to match your 1 computer with dual E5-2697 v3's. Without a doubt, having the one computer substantially reduces your power usage, the space used, generates alot less heat, and is just easier to manage...not to mention the badass factor :p


@Zombie: Perhaps a little unfair that the Brix system you linked above is the top end system with HD 5200 Iris Pro graphics? Though maybe that's what Carlos could really use to solve his cache problems, since that CPU comes with 128MB of L4 cache.

[zombie67]

You would need 7 computers with quad core CPUs and hyperthreading to match your 1 computer with dual E5-2697 v3's. Without a doubt, having the one computer substantially reduces your power usage, the space used, generates alot less heat, and is just easier to manage...not to mention the badass factor :p

Truly bad-ass! I'm jealous!

Dual E5-2697 v3 draw 290w at full load (or ~$450w for a complete system with a modest GPU), and cost $5600 (or ~$6500-7500 for a complete system (depending on how much RAM)). That works out to ~7 mac minis based on power consumption, or ~11+ mac minis based on cost.


@Zombie: Perhaps a little unfair that the Brix system you linked above is the top end system with HD 5200 Iris Pro graphics? Though maybe that's what Carlos could really use to solve his cache problems, since that CPU comes with 128MB of L4 cache.

I picked that one, because it was the only one I could find with a quad core i7. Do you see a cheaper one with that?

[John P. Myers]

I picked that one, because it was the only one I could find with a quad core i7. Do you see a cheaper one with that?

Hmmm yeah that might be tricky. Well so far i've found an i5 quad core, also with HD 5200 Iris Pro graphics for only $440 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164011&cm_re=gigabyte_brix-_-56-164-011-_-Product Still looking for an i7 :p

Edit: Hmm i guess they discontinued the other quad i7's when the 4770R came out. Can't find anything, at least anything that's not used.

Edit2: Aha! Found a Zotac Zbox with a quad core i7: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856173066&cm_re=zotac_zbox-_-56-173-066-_-Product $595 and comes with a 500GB hard drive and 4GB RAM, but it uses Ivy Bridge instead of Haswell.

[John P. Myers]

And as for the lolmac mini, here's some imoprtant info you'll need to know: http://betanews.com/2014/10/19/apple-solders-ram-into-new-mac-mini-to-block-ram-upgrades/

1857

[zombie67]

Yep. The new mini is a real let down.