Need Recommendations on a New Build

[Mike029]

I'm replacing my AMD 1090T and with Black Friday approaching, we will all be inundated with component "deals" from one retailer or another. I've been delaying a X99 upgrade for 6 months and have decided to pull the trigger by Black Friday. I want to increase my CPU crunching power run VM, while being able to play games on this rig. I hope to run it 24/7 so a quality motherboard is a must. I've been out of the loop on component/upgrades and can use some help. Any and ALL recommendations are appreciated.

I plan to save money and use some of my current components.

Here is what I have so far;

Swifteck H240-x http://www.swiftech.com/H240-X.aspx
Azza Hurrican 2000 Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811517010
EVGA 120-G2 1300w PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817438011&cm_re=1300_psu-_-17-438-011-_-Product
2 R9 280x GPU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150678&cm_re=r9_280x-_-14-150-678-_-Product
SSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148443
HDD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA6AH20Y2864&cm_re=wd2002faex-_-22-136-792-_-Product
My monitor is NOT 4k. I won't upgrade till it dies.

I need some recommendations on a motherboard I've been looking at the Asus Sabertooth 3.1, the Asus Pro\3.1 and a couple of MSI boards below.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132518
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132517
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130840
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130839

The CPU for consideration there are only two. The 5960x and the 5930K
Micro Center has the 5960x for $899.00+ tax and the 5930K for $529 +tax which still beats Newegg pricing. Spend the $370.00 premium for the 2 extra cores or put my money somewhere else like a single gpu upgrade or one of the newer SSD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147467
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167359
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167358

Memory 32gb or 64gb? My guess is if I went with the 5930k 32gb for crunching would be enough. Would I need 64gb on the 8 core? This is the memory I'm looking into.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231834
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231795


I keep going back and forth on the 6 core or 8 core cpu?
Get the six core and the newer ssd or use my old ssd and go balls out on the 8 core.
Get the six core and upgrade my GPU?
Asus mb or MSI mb?
64gb ram or just buy the fastest 32gb for the mb?

I think that covers it all. Money is not a big concern just putting together the best practical machine.
Can I say practical when talking about spending money like this? #-o:-B;)

[MindCrime]

Firstly I'd like to say: I like the cut of your jib. I would love to have the budget to be building this. I'm a big tahiti fanboy so dual 280x all the way. Alright consider my bias, budget, frame of mind...whatever. I think you need to decide if you want this to be a GPU beast or CPU beast. Imo you can't have a CPU beast on a single socket, so I'd build this with the mindset that its a GPU-centric build which would mean 6 or 8 threads would suffice in feeding them, and 32gb of ram would be more than enough for BOINC on a single cpu. With all that blabbing:

CPU: I'd go with the 5930k, both have 40 pci-e lanes, it's plenty for the rest of the system. if you want more cpu threads buy a 24 thread t5500/t7500/z600/z800 for the price difference between the two cpus.

MOBO: I've been using a z77 sabertooth for about 5 years straight, no problems very reliable board. Obviously you'll be on x99, keep an eye out for ASUS workstation grade boards (usually has -WS). Full featured, top of the line components, they do cost a bit but they are no bullshit top of the line workstation boards.

RAM: 32gb, I have a dual x5650 (12c/24t) with 36GB and have never had memory issues, I imagine if you wanted to run 6-8 threads of Lattice that use 1-4gb each you might have some problems. If you're going to running VMs on it then yes I would say go for the 64gb. Great thing about RAM though you can always add more (well in this case), start with 32 and go from there. Also remember some windows versions have limits on RAM size. I believe it went up with windows 10, and anything "pro" should be at least 64gb, but Im quite certain windows 7 home is limited to 16gbs.

SSD: I haven't been looking at them much lately but I was pretty sure the PCI-e ones have been faster and have been coming down in price to be very competitive. Since you've got 40 pcie lanes to work with, why not.

PSU: That PSU is made by SuperFlower, one of the better PSU manufacturers out there and is very well reviewed. This guy seriously tests power supplies: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story6&reid=349


Not sure how you feel about buying used (ebay), but to give you an idea the 7970s/280x are going for about 150-160(shipped) via buy it now.

My xfx 7970 non reference, runs pretty hot and loud when maxed out. I would be concerned about having two in the same case sharing the same hot air, it'd be good to get another cruncher's experience on running dual gpu 24/7 especially on high end cards. Maybe with the right mobo you can run the cards in slots that aren't right next to each other to keep temps down.

here is a high end PCI-e SSD, about as fast as you can get right now http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167300

[c303a]

I have a Asus Sabertooth Z97 Mark 2 board and love it. But then again I also have a small bias. I use nothing but Asus boards and if I do have a problem I get them cross shipped to me and am up and running is short order.

[John P. Myers]

SSD: I haven't been looking at them much lately but I was pretty sure the PCI-e ones have been faster and have been coming down in price to be very competitive. Since you've got 40 pcie lanes to work with, why not.


Actually the M.2 SSDs are faster than that, such as this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147467&cm_re=samsung_950_pro-_-20-147-467-_-Product Costs $40 less, has 112GB more capacity and doesn't use any PCIe slots :)

[Mike029]

Firstly I'd like to say: I like the cut of your jib. I would love to have the budget to be building this. I'm a big tahiti fanboy so dual 280x all the way. Alright consider my bias, budget, frame of mind...whatever. I think you need to decide if you want this to be a GPU beast or CPU beast. Imo you can't have a CPU beast on a single socket, so I'd build this with the mindset that its a GPU-centric build which would mean 6 or 8 threads would suffice in feeding them, and 32gb of ram would be more than enough for BOINC on a single cpu. With all that blabbing:

CPU: I'd go with the 5930k, both have 40 pci-e lanes, it's plenty for the rest of the system. if you want more cpu threads buy a 24 thread t5500/t7500/z600/z800 for the price difference between the two cpus.



I think I want a cpu beast. So, i'm going to build the 5930k with the Sabertooth MB. With the savings you mention I could get a 24 thread system? What would a build like that look like parts wise? I guess I could run it as a nas or perhaps a mail server? At least that's what I'll tell the misses. b-(=)) Can I run a 24 thread system as I regular computer? Meaning the kids could access the internet, do homework, watch a movie? No gaming on it as that is what the 5930k will be used for. My guess is that if I wanted an energy efficient 24 thread box, that is going to jack up the price?
Thanks for the replies guys.

Perhaps I can have a bit of both if I cutback here and there. A new PC and a CPU crunching beast.

[Bok]

Just look for Dell T7500 on ebay :) And go for the dual hexcore xeons with at least 24Gb Ram. They run fine with windows or linux and you can pick them up for $600-$700. Very quiet too even at full load.

24threads and up to 3.6Ghz

*EDIT* like this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-2x-2-66GHz-Six-Core-X5650-48GB-RAM-1TB-HDD-No-OS-/171977362628?hash=item280aa64cc4:g:kiQAAOSw9r1V-yPM) one.

[Bryan]

The 24 thread machine he is referring to is a Dell T5500 server off of Ebay. They are equivalent to running 24 I7-950s and will outproduce your 5930k machine. The 5930 running AVX might be close but on most projects you will get a 30-50% boost in credits with the T5500. Of course you will also get double the WuProp hours. Those servers with dual Xeon 5650s and 24G memory are in the $600 range.

On Denis, my I7-3930Ks @ 4.2G are paying 84k/day. My dual X5675 (3.2G) T5500s are giving 124k/day or 47% more credits. All machines are running the Linux SSE41 opti app.

They are servers, but they work just like any other computer with Windows or Linux installed.

EDIT: BOK and I were apparently typing at the same time :D The only difference in the T5500 and 7500 is the size of the case ... the guts are identical. Be sure to look for DUAL processor machines.

[FourOh]

T7500 also has a bigger power supply than the T5500: 1100W vs 875W. But, in my experience you wouldn't want to put two high power GPUs in either of these boxes. They aren't exactly designed with the best airflow, so blower type GPUs perform better, especially with added intake fans. Good luck!

[MindCrime]

As Bok, Bryan, and FourOh have expanded on the dell/hp socket 1366 workstations are hard to beat in price/performance. There's at least 4-6 of us active on the forums here with at least 1 of them, so theres a good knowledge base on them here. Theres generally 3-4 "sizes" per generation, t3500, t5500, t7500 are all the same generation but are small, medium and large, and for the Hp side it's z400, z600, z800.

The dual socket setups are generally going to be found in the t5500/t7500 and z600/z800. There are tons and tons of listings for them so you really gotta sift through them. Some charge a lot of shipping some are free which could be 10-20% of your total price. You can often find them with a windows COA (save you 50bucks), but its usually not installed. RAM seems to be the biggest price component. Since its ECC ram it's a big more expensive. Try to shoot for an initial build that has all the ram you want for the price you want or buy more ram seperately if you can find it at a good deal. I believe it was FourOh that said something almost a year ago about trying to get it for less than 5dollars a GB is good.

I initially started a thread like: "Dual 1366 CPU build?", after I stumbled upon how cheap the 1366 xeons were. Then Sphynx and the other t5500 crew said check these out and I never looked at supermicro 1366 boards again until I saw the Deathstar.

I put a 750ti in mine, I wanted something descent but I didn't want too much more heat. It came with a 512mb nvidia quadro card. It's very quiet, I'd say the loudest things in there are the old hard drives and they're pretty subtle. I'm moving mine out behind the entertainment system where I can use the 750ti to watch movies on the tv as well as a browser. It'll put out a good amount of heat, you're running two ~80w-100w cpus, and we've discovered the primary cpu often comes with a passive heatsink (13dollar fix). I plan to move mine to act as a HTPC in the living room for a while, and to spread the heat around the house.

Now, it's a good CPU cruncher but if you're going to be regularly using it and want something snappy you're going to feel let down. It boots slow!!, i've never seen a BIOS take so long but its a very well put together BIOS actually, for dell in this case. After the BIOS im sure an SSD would be welcomed. What I'm getting at is don't buy one of these to replace your dream machine build. Build your dream machine, but fill your CPU crunch power craving with a cost effective off lease workstation thats flooding ebay.

This is who I bought mine from, no shipping charges (for me at least) and competitive pricing/setups: http://stores.ebay.com/ESISOdotCOM/Dell-Precision-T5500-/_i.html?_fsub=9284523013&_sid=36751993&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

thats just their t5500 store link, check our their t7500/z600/z800 too. It's hard to find a balance of all the components you want, remember ram is easy to install after you get it if you find one with less ram than you'd like.

[MindCrime]

Actually the M.2 SSDs are faster than that, such as this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820147467&cm_re=samsung_950_pro-_-20-147-467-_-Product Costs $40 less, has 112GB more capacity and doesn't use any PCIe slots :)

Is it true m.2 is a connector standard that communicates via pcie lanes?

[John P. Myers]

That is true

[zombie67]

Glad to see this form factor spread to the full size boards. No more data cables and power cables! Fast too.

Edit: If I understand correctly, the key is to look for NVMe (faster), instead of AHCI (slower). Newegg doesn't have a filter for that. They have PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 3.0 x4. Does PCIe 3.0 x4 = NVMe? Or are those different things?

[John P. Myers]

Glad to see this form factor spread to the full size boards. No more data cables and power cables! Fast too.

Edit: If I understand correctly, the key is to look for NVMe (faster), instead of AHCI (slower). Newegg doesn't have a filter for that. They have PCIe 3.0 and PCIe 3.0 x4. Does PCIe 3.0 x4 = NVMe? Or are those different things?

They're different things. Your motherboard will decide the max throughput on the m.2 slot, up to PCIe x4. Cheaper boards reduce m.2 to x2 or even x1. Cheaper m.2 SSDs do the same. They just use the same SATA 3 controller on an m.2 form factor and obviously get the same ~500MB/s speed. The m.2 SSDs with controllers meant for the m.2 standard will make use of PCIe x4 in the m.2 socket.

As for NVMe, newer SSDs are moving to that, such as the Samsung 950's. It could be a pain, but until the NVMe aspect isn't so new, you may have to read individual item descriptions to see if something is NVMe or not.

Another note is boards that support m.2 also only support certain sizes, most commonly 2260 and 2280. 22110 is another fairly common size (22mm wide and 60, 80 or 110mm long).

[Fire$torm]

Question: What are the KW/H costs on dual Xeon vs. dual Haswell-E? And what are the credits per day/KWH ratio's?

[Al]

That sounds like math and better left to someone else. What I will say is that I have 3-T5500s with dual x5650 cpus and 24gb ram and I love them. 72 threads of rock stability that I bought for less than the price of 2-5960 cpus. As a pure crunching rig these are a very affordable alternative to a new build.

[Bryan]

If anyone really wants the crunching results then look at the "top computers" on Denis. There is a 5960 running the AVX app and Xeon 56?? running SSE. I think I looked at the numbers and the 5960 was outproducing the T5500 by about 15k/day - 140 vs 125k. That's 16 threads running AVX. On most projects the Xeons will outproduce the 5960. Regardless, that is a $600 complete machine versus a $1000 CPU.

Pretty good bang for the buck :D

[Mike029]

I'm eyeballing this one. What do you think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-Workstation-2x-QUAD-CORE-X5687-3-6GHz-24GB-RAM-1TB-FX1800-/131643373066?hash=item1ea68e760a

[Bryan]

For the 5687 that is a very good price with 24Gb of RAM! I'd offer them $625 and then take what ever they come back with.

[scole of TSBT]

The 5687 is 8 threads, not 12 and it's a 130 watt cpu vs. a 12 thread 95 watt 5675/5670/5650.

[Bryan]

The 5687 is 8 threads, not 12 and it's a 130 watt cpu vs. a 12 thread 95 watt 5675/5670/5650.

My bad, I was thinking of the 5690!! My machines are the 5675s.

[Mike029]

My bad, I was thinking of the 5690!! My machines are the 5675s.
No, my bad, I should have only put up a six core as recommended. How about this one? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-Workstation-2x-SIX-CORE-X5675-3-06GHz-48GB-RAM-1x-1TB-SATA-/131551521562?hash=item1ea114eb1a:g:VyYAAOSw3ydVmwC W
It's a bit more. Unless you think I can wait for a better price as there is not much of a selection on the x5675. Must be a popular cpu.

[Bryan]

Not bad, but I'd be more inclined to go for the 5680 @ 3.33G and 48G HERE (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Precision-T7500-Workstation-2x-SIX-CORE-X5680-3-33GHz-48GB-RAM-1x-500GB-SAT-/131620488800?hash=item1ea5314660). :D The 5680 is 10% higher clock rate and for less than 20 bucks it would be a shame not to bite.

I know Z will disagree, but 1 of my machines has 48G and 2 only have 24G. There have only been a couple of times that I couldn't run 24 threads on a project. On those I had to drop all the way down to 20 threads =)) So if the machine is a little pricey you might consider looking for one that has the higher speed processor and getting less memory. At a later date you could upgrade the memory .... for $188 bucks you can get 48G.

The memory configuration is kind of oddball. IIRC you get a choice of 24G or 48G but nothing in between. You can download the users manual and it shows the valid configurations. I don't think you can start w/ 24G and then add another 24G to bring it to 48.

With regards to price, I bought my 1st over a year ago and it was at about the same price. I don't think they fluctuate.

[scole of TSBT]

Anyone running dual X5680 or X5690s in a T5500/T7500 or Z600/Z800? What are your temps like and what mods did you do? I figure at 130 watts, those are little tougher to keep cool compared to the 95 watt x5675/x5670/x5650 cpus. On my dual x5675 system, I ditched the aluminum heatsink on the main board CPU and put this one in http://www.ebay.com/itm/171183521047 and strapped a 92mm case fan to it. Plus I mounted 2 92mm fans in the back to pull air out and pulled the front cover off and have a small floor fan forcing air through it. May sound like a lot, but room stays warm with 3 systems in there.

[Al]

On my dual x5675 system, I ditched the aluminum heatsink on the main board CPU and put this one in http://www.ebay.com/itm/171183521047 and strapped a 92mm case fan to it.
I've been meaning to do that since I got mine. I just picked up 3 @ $10 a pop with free shipping.

[FourOh]

I can't see spending the extra $$$ on the 130 Watt X56xx cpus. They cost more on the front end, then use more electricity and create more heat. My x5670 outproduces my x5650 by about 5-10% on most CPU projects, using only a few more watts of power. I'd look for dual x5670 or x5675 in the "bang for buck" category.

Just remember, these are not enthusiast motherboards, so even if you have the case open with cold air blowing on the internals, the CPUs will typically not run all threads at their rated speed. But they are very stable and can run a high end GPU on the stock PSU.

I took some power usage measurements on my machines about a year ago... now where did I put those notes :p

[MindCrime]

Anyone running dual X5680 or X5690s in a T5500/T7500 or Z600/Z800? What are your temps like and what mods did you do? I figure at 130 watts, those are little tougher to keep cool compared to the 95 watt x5675/x5670/x5650 cpus. On my dual x5675 system, I ditched the aluminum heatsink on the main board CPU and put this one in http://www.ebay.com/itm/171183521047 and strapped a 92mm case fan to it. Plus I mounted 2 92mm fans in the back to pull air out and pulled the front cover off and have a small floor fan forcing air through it. May sound like a lot, but room stays warm with 3 systems in there.

Check this out, http://www.setiusa.us/showthread.php?8082-What-did-*you*-upgrade-today&p=100568&viewfull=1#post100568

t5500 with 2x 5650s, 36gb ram, and a 750 ti. I did pretty much what you did. Pulled the passive, added a 92mm fan and my temps are amazing now. Wish i did it immediately after purchasing, I will next time.

[scole of TSBT]

T5500 w/500GB drive $160 http://www.ebay.com/itm/171985608656
2nd CPU/memory riser $80 http://www.ebay.com/itm/331702355304
X5670 x2 $200 http://www.ebay.com/itm/311479761117
24Gb RAM $60 http://www.ebay.com/itm/161176438347
Upgraded heatsink and fan $20

$520

Those are all buy it now prices, but if you're patient, you can snag some bargains and build it cheaper.

[pinhodecarlos]

Question: What are the KW/H costs on dual Xeon vs. dual Haswell-E? And what are the credits per day/KWH ratio's?

This is called the specific energy, and this ratio should be compared between machines. Basically for the same period of time an energy reading should be taken divided by the number of tasks completed on the same frame period. The ratio should be kWh/tasks.

[MindCrime]

On the topic of power and heat. I think we all know that a haswell will get you far more credit per watt. But remember a watt is a watt in heat. Have a 100w haswell or westmere you're adding 100w of heat to the room.

If that room needs to be heated you've just reduced its need by 100w. I have no idea how cpuboss.com calculates the annual energy costs but a x5675 shows 83$/yr and the 5960x is 122$/yr. Obviously we would double the Xeon cause we're talking about two.

It'd cost you less than 2 dollars a month more to run the dual Xeon vs a 5690x. If we round up a lot and estimate the dual xeons cost about 24$ more annually it would take a few decades for the energy costs to add up to the capital costs.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[FourOh]

I definitely recommend adding two 80mm exhaust fans at the rear, as well as this module which provides a bit of intake air up at the 5.25" external bays:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dell-WH216-Add-on-Hard-Drive-Cage-XH389-RH887-RH991-for-T3500-T5400-T5500-/171975644697?hash=item280a8c1619

Edit: Thanks MindCrime, it's 80mm fans that fit at the lower rear of the case.

[MindCrime]

I definitely recommend adding two 92mm exhaust fans at the rear, as well as this module which provides a bit of intake air up at the 5.25" external bays:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dell-WH216-Add-on-Hard-Drive-Cage-XH389-RH887-RH991-for-T3500-T5400-T5500-/171975644697?hash=item280a8c1619

I like the idea of the drive bay fan. It's probably really beneficial to the power supply as it lines up right with it and only impeded by cable management. I've got mine sitting vertically behind a 48" tv and can feel most of the heat comes out of the PSU exhaust. Are you sure you have 92mm fans in that lower exhaust area? I ordered two and they're two big, but 80mms fit perfectly. These are what are in mine http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999199

I'm really happy with my t5500 right now. Mods have been upgraded primary heatsink with a 92mm fan attached (its on molex but is thermally regulated). I modified the secondary PSU fan housing to mount the fan flush with the heatsink, seemed to improve. I have 2x 80mm fans added to the lower rear grill (opposite of PSU), they fit snuggly in the receased grill. I now have it in the living room behind my TV. Instead of having a hot computer room and a cold house, moving them around I've got a much better balance in the house and don't use as much furnace.

[Mike029]

Everyone has been great with the input. I really appreciate all the help. I have a few questions. Should I expect to upgrade the heatsink upon purchase? Are things different with these dual cpu boards or is it still a straight forward exchange from old heatsink to new? Remove old heatsink, remove old thermal compound, apply arctic-silver 5, attach heatsink, figure out a way to attach fan, rinse and repeat?

[Mike029]

I definitely recommend adding two 80mm exhaust fans at the rear, as well as this module which provides a bit of intake air up at the 5.25" external bays:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Dell-WH216-Add-on-Hard-Drive-Cage-XH389-RH887-RH991-for-T3500-T5400-T5500-/171975644697?hash=item280a8c1619

Edit: Thanks MindCrime, it's 80mm fans that fit at the lower rear of the case.

Will that fit into the t7500?

[Mike029]

I just called eSISO on this I'm watching. http://www.ebay.com/itm/131551521562?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

They said the best price they could give is $825.00.
I'm trying to be patient and wait a few days to see if a better deal comes through on ebay.

@scole of TSBT, Thanks for the build research but I don't think a want to tackle a build like this from scratch. I don't mind doing the upgrades and mods that are recommended tho.

[MindCrime]

I was impressed that they could be pieced together at a competitive rate, Thanks Scole. I think Mike should get a fully built one though. There is so a lot of proprietary things about these that make a lot of parts incompatible with other OEM parts and standards.

I was poking around that I think you've chosen the right CPUs, the x5675s being the best of the 95W selection before the big 45w jump to 130w tdps RAM carries a big price value on these resellers so if you are up to it or can find another one with smaller amounts of ram and another auction for ram you might be able to save up to 50-100 bucks. Also a big part of the RAM price is their density, 4gb/8gb.

Remember theres a few quad core models mixed into the lineup like the x5667, x5672, .. little over halfway down you'll find a good table (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#.22Westmere-EP.22_.2832_nm.29_Efficient_Performance) You may want to call and ask them which coolers are on the cpus, because the passives will hold you back, the sub 12 dollar upgraded heatsink is very worth it.

[Mike029]

You may want to call and ask them which coolers are on the cpus, because the passives will hold you back, the sub 12 dollar upgraded heatsink is very worth it.

I called and was told that it is the standard factory installed heatsink

[MindCrime]

I called and was told that it is the standard factory installed heatsink

I think everyone with a 95w CPU has gotten the passive heatsink on the primary. I looked up the service # on mine and it was originally dual e5520 (something like that), a passive heatsink may have worked for that. FYI it's not TOO passive, theres a pretty powerful fan a few inches in front of it but after I rested a 92mm fan right in front of it my temps dropped dramatically and then eventually upgraded the heatsink.

Now I'm speaking from a t5500 standpoint, and maybe naturally the t7500s got better cooling standard. That said theres a thread around here with some part numbers. I got the U016f for my x5650, I believe FourOh mentioned he had the same cooler on x5670s. Basically we've all just experienced the passive all aluminum brick of fins on the primary cpu is not adequate for crunching.

[scole of TSBT]

I'm always browsing Ebay for a steal. This isn't necessarily a steal, but it's not a bad deal. I have a couple Z600s and they've run well so far...

HP Z600, dual X5650, 24GB RAM, 1.5 TB HDD, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, dual Quadro FX 1800...$549 + +$65 shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301794111323

Or keep your eye on this auction, but you'd have to upgrade the CPUs. If you got it for less than $350 (including shipping), would be good deal...http://www.ebay.com/itm/121811587387

[Mike029]

I'm always browsing Ebay for a steal. This isn't necessarily a steal, but it's not a bad deal. I have a couple Z600s and they've run well so far...

HP Z600, dual X5650, 24GB RAM, 1.5 TB HDD, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit, dual Quadro FX 1800...$549 + +$65 shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/301794111323

Or keep your eye on this auction, but you'd have to upgrade the CPUs. If you got it for less than $350 (including shipping), would be good deal...http://www.ebay.com/itm/121811587387

It seems that the HPs have a much better stock cooling solution over the Dells. I really like the price of that z600 dual hex you found Scole.

[FourOh]

It seems that the HPs have a much better stock cooling solution over the Dells. I really like the price of that z600 dual hex you found Scole.

Looks like a very good alternative to the Dell T5500. The cooling strategy looks much better; the only drawback I see is the smaller and slightly less efficient PSU (650W @ 85% vs 875W @ 88%). You might have trouble running a 7950/280 and you would certainly have failures with 7970/280X on this platform, but it has enough power for a mid-range AMD card or any newer Nvidia GPU up to GTX 980. For this reason I've been sticking with the Dell T5500 - I need somewhere to put my Tahiti cards! :p

[scole of TSBT]

It seems that the HPs have a much better stock cooling solution over the Dells.
Eh, not really. Temps are comparable to the T5500. Just don't have to mess with a riser. Though the heatsink upgrade on the primary cpu keeps it nice and cool. The cpu on the riser gets as hot as the Z600 cpus. Avg 75C?.


I see is the smaller and slightly less efficient PSU (650W @ 85% vs 875W @ 88%). You might have trouble running a 7950/280 and you would certainly have failures with 7970/280X on this platform, but it has enough power for a mid-range AMD card or any newer Nvidia GPU up to GTX 980. For this reason I've been sticking with the Dell T5500 - I need somewhere to put my Tahiti cards! :p

You're correct, the Z600 PSU is a limitation. I power a GPU in one with a separate PSU.

[Mike029]

Okay, pulled the trigger on this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z800-Workstation-2x-Xeon-x5670-2-93GHz-6C-48GB-1TB-FX4800-Win7Pro-/131566792098?hash=item1ea1fdeda2:g:YFQAAOSwBLlU~fD b


I bid $900.00 shipping is $66.00. Tell me what ya think?

[Al]

You won't be disappointed with that machine, I'm positive of that fact. Welcome to the 24 thread owners club. :)

[scole of TSBT]

Yeah, you'll like it.:-bd

[MindCrime]

You'll be so happy with it. You'll be shopping to add another once you get it settled in. Are you familiar with VMs? I wasn't at all until I got it and have learned a ton with the help of these forums.


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Mike029]

You'll be so happy with it. You'll be shopping to add another once you get it settled in. Are you familiar with VMs? I wasn't at all until I got it and have learned a ton with the help of these forums.


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk
Thanks guys. I'm sure if had waited I'd have found a better deal but I was impatient. I went a bit over budget on this so I'll have to put off that x99 build till after Christmas. A fair compromise with "she who rules".

[MindCrime]

You might be able to put a 280x in it and have something that meets all your needs for a bit longer.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Mike029]

I'll get that x99 build or like you said, I'll want another. :p I't'll be here next week. I can't wait for the next cpu challenge we hit.

[MindCrime]

Pardon my bias. I'm living vicariously through this build thread.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[scole of TSBT]

Are you familiar with VMs? I wasn't at all until I got it and have learned a ton with the help of these forums.The one thing dual cpu systems aren't good at is crunching under a VM. It works, but there's a bit of a performance hit. If you want to also have a linux option, you should consider a dual boot setup.

[Mike029]

Pardon my bias. I'm living vicariously through this build thread.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

WAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAH!!! I hope I don't let you down.
@Scole, I'll look at a dual boot setup.

[MindCrime]

I feel like Bryan is going to jump in and mention ProLasso any minute. I'm note sure if this is why their would be a performance hit but I can migrate or set affinities.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[scole of TSBT]

Process Lasso is a utility that allows you to force specific programs to run on a physical core to avoid hyper threading performance hits. The performance hit running virtual box on dual cpu systems is different. Bryan has good advice about both.

[Mike029]

ProLasso is one of the better utility programs out there for us in this hobby. I also use it during gaming with those finicky games. Props to Christopher Herr on introducing me to ProLasso.

[Mumps]

Well, my experience with VM's is that Virtual box does fine as long as you don't assign more cores to a VM than a single CPU has. Once you go over that, VirtualBox doesn't handle it well at all. But below that threshold, it's not such a huge amount of overhead. Maybe a couple of percentage points. (2-4% for me.)

[Bryan]

The one thing dual cpu systems aren't good at is crunching under a VM. It works, but there's a bit of a performance hit. If you want to also have a linux option, you should consider a dual boot setup.

With regards to VM versus native Linux, my I7 3930s take a 12.5% performance hit running under a VM. The dual Xeons take a 28-30% hit .... VBox does NOT handle multi-processors well! The difference in Mumps' numbers and mine may be because he runs cores and I run hyper threads.

ProLasso will not control VBox ... everything else yes, VBox no.

[John P. Myers]

Just a heads up, looking like the i7-6950X might have 10 cores/20 threads and be available 1h 2016. It should also be compatible with the X99 chipset, same as the i7-5960X. Same base clock speed too.

[Mike029]

Just a heads up, looking like the i7-6950X might have 10 cores/20 threads and be available 1h 2016. It should also be compatible with the X99 chipset, same as the i7-5960X. Same base clock speed too.

Great, you had to add this to my thread? /:) Now I have to save up some more money and wait another 6 months.... $-)#-o:-? Thankfully I'll have my new 24 threads to play with while I wait. #:-s<:-P<:-P

[Mike029]

Ok, I'm setting this up right now and have a few questions. How hot can these cores run, what is too hot? Is there a way to up the fans? Hyper thread or no hyper thread? I'll be doing updates for awhile now so I have nothing but time. I'm running PG right now to test the temps.

[scole of TSBT]

In the BIOS there's a setting to increase the minimum speed of the dual rear fans. Keep the case closed for the best air flow. Temps on my systems run 70-75 but since Tcase on those CPUs is 81C I let them run.

[Mike029]

In the BIOS there's a setting to increase the minimum speed of the dual rear fans. Keep the case closed for the best air flow. Temps on my systems run 70-75 but since Tcase on those CPUs is 81C I let them run.

Cores 1 and 5 on each of the cpus is running 76-77 while all the other cores on both cpus are 68-72. That seem strange? Where in the bios do I find the setting for the fans? I am missing it.

[scole of TSBT]

Look for a Thermal menu under the Power main menu.

[Mike029]

Look for a Thermal menu under the Power main menu.

Thank you!! Another question, should I use Enhanced Intel Turbo Boost Technology? It is currently disabled in the bios.

[scole of TSBT]

...should I use Enhanced Intel Turbo Boost Technology? It is currently disabled in the bios.Only if you want it to peak at 3.33Ghz instead of 2.93Ghz

[Mike029]

Only if you want it to peak at 3.33Ghz instead of 2.93Ghz

Hmm, that does not sound like a bad thing. >:)

[zombie67]

They will not run too hot, so that they allow damage to themselves. Run them as hot as you want, until they start self-throttling.

[Mike029]

They will not run too hot, so that they allow damage to themselves. Run them as hot as you want, until they start self-throttling.

Good to know. I've seen one core hit 83c. Most of the others are in the low 70's.. How does everyone feel about moving from Win. 7 pro to Win 10 on this box?

[Al]

Good to know. I've seen one core hit 83c. Most of the others are in the low 70's.. How does everyone feel about moving from Win. 7 pro to Win 10 on this box?
You will see that from time to time depending on the project and usually only under the passively cooled cpu...though you're running an HP and it may have a different cooling solution. As Z said, until you see throttling or errors, don't worry about it. The processors will shut down prior to damage. So, how are you liking the 24 threads so far? I love mine.

Personally, I'm not a Win 10 fan, but I'm old and crotchety. The only computer I run it on is my laptop and only because I lost the ability to access all my music when I reverted back the Win 7.

[Mike029]

I love the box. Can't wait to crank it up on a real challenge. I was on PG but I'm on WCG now. Let's see what this can do. I want to upgrade a few badges over there.

[Al]

I love the box. Can't wait to crank it up on a real challenge. I was on PG but I'm on WCG now. Let's see what this can do. I want to upgrade a few badges over there.
Don't sell yourself short, you need to upgrade all of your WCG badges! =))=)):P=))=)) Now you have something to help you do that fairly quickly. :p I knew you would like it, the most bang for the crunching buck out there! So when do you buy the next one?

[Mike029]

Don't laugh, I'm scanning ebay now. $-)

[Al]

Don't laugh, I'm scanning ebay now. $-)
Me too! If you start bidding on something let us know, no sense bidding against each other.

[Mike029]

You got it.

[scole of TSBT]

You guys should keep an eye on this one, 14 hours left...http://www.ebay.com/itm/121811587387

The CPUs need to be replaced, 2 X5670 for $200, but if you can snag that system for less than $300, that's a dual X5670 24 core, 24GB RAM system for less than $600.

$300 for Z600
$82 for shipping
$200 for 2 X5670

$582 total

Could sell for more, could sell for less. You never know.

[Mike029]

Nice find Scole. Wouldn't you need to upgrade the psu as well?

[scole of TSBT]

Well, that's the drawback of these systems. I don't think you can upgrade the PSU. It's all proprietary parts. You can probably power a GTX 750ti, but that's it.. On mine, I used a separate modular PSU to power the GPU.

(and I had to update my post. It's Z600, not T5500.)

[Al]

Mike are you bidding on this system? I've got it at 143.25, but I have no problem with backing off on bidding.

Edit:And neither does my wife.

[Mike029]

Mike are you bidding on this system? I've got it at 143.25, but I have no problem with backing off on bidding.

Edit:And neither does my wife.

No no, not bidding on it. I have not given up on the 5930k build yet. I just have not made up my mind.

[Mike029]

I could not resist. I pulled the trigger on the upgrade. Here is the new gaming rig from Newegg.

Asus Sabertooth http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132518
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231942
Intel Core i7-5930K Haswell-E 6-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 2011-v3 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117403&cm_re=5930k_i7-_-19-117-403-_-Product

All the other components are on page one. I guess I'm back.
I'm not going with the SSD at this time. Got to cut corners somewhere. :p Well, that's it.
Thanks to everyone who helped me put this together. You guys and gals rock....

[John P. Myers]

I'm not going with the SSD at this time. Got to cut corners somewhere.

Are you sure? http://www.newegg.com/Special/ShellShocker.aspx?cm_sp=Homepage_SS-_-P1_20-173-012-_-11222015 :D

[zombie67]

Heh. That ink takes me to toner.

[John P. Myers]

Heh. That ink takes me to toner.

Well crap....fixed: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820173012

[Mike029]

Well crap....fixed: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820173012
Dammit!!!!
Now I gotta find another $110.00. Time to collect some cans. :o

[shiva]

just how big of a ssd do you need if you are just running windows and boinc?

[Mike029]

just how big of a ssd do you need if you are just running windows and boinc?

No, this will be the family computer that does, facebook, internet, email, homework, music, movie, gaming and a little Boinc running in the background. Only way to sell it to the supreme leader...(Wife)

[John P. Myers]

Just a heads up, looking like the i7-6950X might have 10 cores/20 threads and be available 1h 2016. It should also be compatible with the X99 chipset, same as the i7-5960X. Same base clock speed too.

Confirmed. http://buzzfeednet.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Screenshot_1.jpg
Here is Intel admitting it's existence: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/product/94456/Intel-Core-i7-6950X-Processor-Extreme-Edition-25M-Cache-up-to-3-50-GHz-

Currently it only exists as a changelog entry for an update to Intel's Management Engine supported CPU list on the X99 chipset.

[zombie67]

Is that compatible with X79? Just curious... ;)

[Fire$torm]

Is that compatible with X79? Just curious... ;)

X79 is Socket 2011-0 (version 1). X99 is Socket 2011-V3 so the pinouts are logically different though mechanically identical. ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGA_2011#Physical_design_and_socket_generations

Short answer = No. Sorry Z.

[zombie67]

Well, that's actually good news. I can't be tempted. :)

[Fire$torm]

Well, that's actually good news. I can't be tempted. :)

Hmmm, are you sure...?

[zombie67]

Hmmm, are you sure...?

Quiet, you!

[STMahlberg]

I figured that I could last at least a week instead of 2 days before starting to think about more rigs. So here is my dilemma; I'm now retired from Massive Dynamics and no longer have access to computers that are in storage. That and being a "senior" on a fixed income limits what I can build; although, selling my meds has crossed my mind... but that would be wrong... so I don't know what would be a better course of action, a cheap build with new hardware or buying an older used system from eBay and upgrading what's needed.

Any thought?

[John P. Myers]

After this Pentathlon, you may find you suddenly have an easily accessible market to sell your meds in :D

You might look into buying a used Dell T5500 from eBay. They're cheap, and upgrading them is cheap too.

[STMahlberg]

After this Pentathlon, you may find you suddenly have an easily accessible market to sell your meds in :D

You might look into buying a used Dell T5500 from eBay. They're cheap, and upgrading them is cheap too.

What would be your recommendation for the minimum specs on a video card?

[John P. Myers]

What would be your recommendation for the minimum specs on a video card?

Hard to say without knowing your budget. But a lot of the GTX 900 series cards have been marked down because the 1000 series is out now, so you might look into them. However it shouldn't be too long before you can get a GTX 1070 for around $400 that has the same performance as a Titan X. So if your budget is $400, wait on a 1070 (do not waste your money on the $450 Founders Edition. It's garbage). If it's less, look at the 900 series.

Edit: Forgot you're really into Milkyway. An R9 280X is a really great choice in that case. Still nothing better.

[FourOh]

I have a feeling there will be some hardware for sale on these here boards very soon, and for a good price :D

GTX 970 is a great card, so is the 980. But like JPM said, if you're feeling generous with yourself, wait for the 1070.

[John P. Myers]

Since you retired from Massive Dynamic, if you ever met Walter Bishop while you were there, he'd likely buy you any graphics card you wanted. He's loopy enough to be talked into things :)

[STMahlberg]

Just looked at the GTX 950 for $140 which is doable; however, anything over $200 for a video card is too much at the moment.

A couple of years ago The Annihilatrix gave up the ghost so I refitted it with a MSI X79A-GD45 MB and an i7 4820k CPU. I'm still using the same Radeon HD 5870 video cards but I only have one in at the moment... I should probably reinstall the other two. It's all still in a Cooler Master HAF X case powered by a Ultra X4 1200w PSU. Yeah, I know, the PSU is a bit much but it keeps me warm in the winter. :D

[STMahlberg]

Since you retired from Massive Dynamic, if you ever met Walter Bishop while you were there, he'd likely buy you any graphics card you wanted. He's loopy enough to be talked into things :)

lol :)

[FourOh]

Just looked at the GTX 950 for $140 which is doable; however, anything over $200 for a video card is too much at the moment.

A couple of years ago The Annihilatrix gave up the ghost so I refitted it with a MSI X79A-GD45 MB and an i7 4820k CPU. I'm still using the same Radeon HD 5870 video cards but I only have one in at the moment... I should probably reinstall the other two. It's all still in a Cooler Master HAF X case powered by a Ultra X4 1200w PSU. Yeah, I know, the PSU is a bit much but it keeps me warm in the winter. :D

I have a GTX 960 that I picked up cheap prior to the Pentathlon. If you're looking in that range, I'm happy to pass on the savings.

[John P. Myers]

On June 29th there will be new cards from AMD available, and will be mid to low range. Most expensive one should be around $229 and go down from there. The Rx 460 should be around the same price ($129?) as a 950 and should perform better, but exact performance isn't known yet. TDP should be 75W or less.

[STMahlberg]

I have a GTX 960 that I picked up cheap prior to the Pentathlon. If you're looking in that range, I'm happy to pass on the savings.

Thank you but I need to find something to put it in first.

[FourOh]

Thank you but I need to find something to put it in first.

Weird, I always work the other way around. I buy a bunch of GPUs and then... oops, need to build more rigs to put them in!!

[STMahlberg]

Weird, I always work the other way around. I buy a bunch of GPUs and then... oops, need to build more rigs to put them in!!

lol I understand completely. :) Back in 2010 I had a couple of Optiplex GX-280's that I got from work. It bugged me that it was a single core with on-board video that wouldn't do anything. So I'd buy a cheap GPU that would fit in it but had to change out the PSU... they don't just swap unless you modify the case. They never gave me very many credits because of the single-core but boy they would crank out Milkyway and DNETC with the new GPU.

I couldn't stand having hardware that I couldn't put to good use... and I'm starting to feel that itch again but like NASA says, "No bucks, no Buck Rogers".