SETI.USA Bash Brothers Group

I just created this group, and it is open for anyone to join who shares the same philosophy on crunching.
The idea was inspired by S.G., as I watched them add wave after wave of crunchers to the last PG challenge, and they narrowly defeated us. They won because of the last wave of big rigs they could call on to crunch one round, and then return to their pet projects.

Everyone crunches and donates their resouces with different goals in mind. That's something unique about our team. I realized after building the Beerinator, that my goal with crunching is not a personal one, it's a team goal. I'm not really into all this for some personal reason, I'm in it for this team. I want to see our team grow and succeed, holding onto positions we've fought so hard to attain and take new ones over time.

I have made this group for anyone willing to be called in on short notice to defend a position, or make a concentrated push to obtain a higher team rank in any project.
I am OK with being the only member; it won't hurt my feelings if no one else ever joins. However, I would certainly love to see some others join this group and put "team" first. Just so the goal is clear, the object is not to pull the Bash Bro. off his or her pet project(s) for lengthy periods of time; it is for when the team needs some quick, raw power at it's disposal.
I hope to create a catchy logo for signatures of all Bash Brothers as well.
Anyone on this team has my permission to contact me from here on out and ask me to crunch any project where the team rank may be in jeopardy, and I will seriously consider any legitamate request.

I can certanly understand your arguements!! That´s why I came up with the idea about the cluster in the early days of this team...Same statement...Different approach


Hope you get this going!

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Originally Posted by Beerdrinker

I can certanly understand your arguements!! That´s why I came up with the idea about the cluster in the early days of this team...Same statement...Different approach


Hope you get this going!

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I hope we can boost the cluster and get it producing again. I was hoping someone could reach out to the people with the boxes and see what needs to be done.

Add me to this or tell me how to join a group. :x

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Originally Posted by Mike029

I hope we can boost the cluster and get it producing again. I was hoping someone could reach out to the people with the boxes and see what needs to be done.

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Me too. The cluster had some succes a while ago...But after the "comotion" in late 2009 and spring 2010 - it never became the same....

Just an FYI: There is or was a group one our team that has/had a similar objective.
From the "Old Board"

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Project Mobilization Force (PMF)

Mission Statement:

The PMF is a group of volunteer SUSA team members who have agreed to forgo their personal crunching goals as the need arises. They have agreed to reallocate a portion of their available crunching resources for PMF mobilizations and all of their assets in emergency mobilizations.

The PMF is not meant to be SUSA’s “main” strike force. The PMF was formed to give SUSA a means to direct large amounts of processing power to a project on very short notice and to help evaluate, strategize, coordinate, and spearhead project or team assaults.

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I like your idea. My main goal is to support TFP-MW@H & Aqua. Since that is accomplished with my i7, I would be willing to lend my other boxes to "The Cause".

I dont have a lot of processsing power but im in. :)>-

You can count me in too. Right now I only have 4800 GPU's at home and they are all on MW to get the biggest bang. My son has a NVIDIA card and has it on my account doing Collatz. All my 64 bit boxes run AQUA to maximize production. The only thing not going for maximum points are the 32 bit CPU's (Is this a restricted area?) I was hoping to make a splash in a project that wasn't being hammered by the other teams and was doing a good job until they noticed me. RSA. Now they are beating me again, so I don't know how much longer to reamin there. Was told that MW is giving the highest credit for the 32 bit CPU's.

I'm always up for a good fight, I mean competition.:cool:

Thank you all for the positive comments.
@F$, thanks for the info about the previous PMF. I actually got a nice PM from someone explaining all the past efforts in this direction to me. I am encouraged we can make a difference.

If anyone wishes to add or remove themselves from the group at any time, simply mouse over the down arrow to the right of "Community" at the top of the forum screen. Click on "Groups" and then find SETI.USA Bash Bro.s

We are beginning the long journey to reclaim our former glory. I have no doubt that our team is up to the challenge.:cool:

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Originally Posted by DrPop

Thank you all for the positive comments.
@F$, thanks for the info about the previous PMF. I actually got a nice PM from someone explaining all the past efforts in this direction to me. I am encouraged we can make a difference.

If anyone wishes to add or remove themselves from the group at any time, simply mouse over the down arrow to the right of "Community" at the top of the forum screen. Click on "Groups" and then find SETI.USA Bash Bro.s

We are beginning the long journey to reclaim our former glory. I have no doubt that our team is up to the challenge.:cool:

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We sure are!!

Shock and awe....Attack, regroup....attack! :cool:

I find this idea intriguing. My only real personal goal is to become one of the top 10 producers for Seti.USA both in accumulated credit and credit per day on a consistent basis. I’m not a stone chaser since this will happen naturally over time.

For the most part at least for my rigs that will handle it, I load all 48 projects that I currently participate in and let the BOINC manager figure out the rest. I switch over for the challenges and the switch back to my normal routine when they are finished.

I like this idea and I would be delighted to participate in this endeavor; I currently have 13 cores that I can relinquish to the campaign at a moment’s notice.

I shall join this group immediately.

1) I'd like to join.

2) Can we call it something other than "Bash Brothers"? You don't want to go to the wrong Bash Brothers especially if you're at work.

Hahaha, well sure - we can change the name if everyone would like that. I had no idea that "Bash Brothers" had any kind of negative connotation.

I got the idea for the name from back in the days when Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire were the "Bash Brothers" for the A's...they drilled out homer after homer that year...some real slugging power.
So I figured this was like the "SETI.USA Sluggers group"...

I'm up for a vote on the name if ya'll want. We should decide on a name before I make the logo, though!;)

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Originally Posted by DrPop

Hahaha, well sure - we can change the name if everyone would like that. I had no idea that "Bash Brothers" had any kind of negative connotation.

I got the idea for the name from back in the days when Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire were the "Bash Brothers" for the A's...they drilled out homer after homer that year...some real slugging power.
So I figured this was like the "SETI.USA Sluggers group"...

I'm up for a vote on the name if ya'll want. We should decide on a name before I make the logo, though!;)

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I guess I just need to get my mind out of the gutter. I was in St. Louis and a Cardinals fan when MM hit 70 in a season and I do remember them talking about that.

How about SETI.USA Piranha? Essentially, that's what we would be doing. Swarming to crunch one victim.

I'll stick with Bash Brothers.

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Originally Posted by DrPop

Hahaha, well sure - we can change the name if everyone would like that. I had no idea that "Bash Brothers" had any kind of negative connotation.

I got the idea for the name from back in the days when Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire were the "Bash Brothers" for the A's...they drilled out homer after homer that year...some real slugging power.
So I figured this was like the "SETI.USA Sluggers group"...

I'm up for a vote on the name if ya'll want. We should decide on a name before I make the logo, though!;)

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I like the SETI.USA Sluggers myself. :)

Im going to be confrontational here but the guy who starts the group should be able to name it as he see's fit. Had you started your own group, you could name it. Just my 2 cents.

Suppose my POS is in :) Name makes no nevermind to me, all suggested have good points.

heheh not baseball fan, so Bash Bros. was lost on me--I just liked it because we're gonna bash everyone in our way. And ditto for Sluggers--bash 'em with our Louisville Sluggers :P Swing batta, batta, batta


Piranhas is good--more voracious than goldfish in a sea of sharks, more more more

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Originally Posted by joker

Im going to be confrontational here but the guy who starts the group should be able to name it as he see's fit. Had you started your own group, you could name it. Just my 2 cents.

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Oh YEAH! Well I say the guy that started the group can name it whatever he wants! Oh, that was your point, too? Nevermind.

Name don't matter to me. Group theme is whats important. :p

I think it should be the "SETI.USA Teddy Bears" (a.k.a. "The Fuzzy Wuzzies")

The Mascot...
http://www.threadsofatlantis.com/cos...ear_attack.jpg

Biggest RAC? Most credits? 1st place in a challenge? They often conflict. For example, I can average 215K/day on AQUA verses only 18K on PG LLR. Is winning a PG challenge worth the 90% loss in credits? That depends how large a lead we have in total BOINC, our position in other projects and how close we are to losing them, how long the challenge runs, etc. I don't believe we are still in a position where our team can remain #1 and compete in all challenges and take #1 in each of those as well. We seem to have many differences of opinion on what our goals should be and the order of importance. Until we can agree on them, we will work together about as well as the Dallas Cowboys - lots of talent but crummy results again and again.

Summary: If it is a high paying project challenge, I'm in.

I am in as well, actually I always participate in the challenges so I guess I'm in by default. Good point there about losing top over all #1 position due to crunching challenges. I think it would take a lot to know how many should participate in the challenges while leaving some of our resources behind. Perhaps we could suggest which type of CPU would be best suited for a challenge then if we were close to winning but needed some extra omph, then we could go all in.

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I think it should be the "SETI.USA Teddy Bears" (a.k.a. "The Fuzzy Wuzzies")

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I am Tetsuo! :-B

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Originally Posted by Slicker

Biggest RAC? Most credits? 1st place in a challenge? They often conflict. For example, I can average 215K/day on AQUA verses only 18K on PG LLR. Is winning a PG challenge worth the 90% loss in credits? That depends how large a lead we have in total BOINC, our position in other projects and how close we are to losing them, how long the challenge runs, etc. I don't believe we are still in a position where our team can remain #1 and compete in all challenges and take #1 in each of those as well. We seem to have many differences of opinion on what our goals should be and the order of importance. Until we can agree on them, we will work together about as well as the Dallas Cowboys - lots of talent but crummy results again and again.

Summary: If it is a high paying project challenge, I'm in.

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I agree on this. However I think it´s important to show the world, that we are not a dead fish in the water (so to speak) So I am participating in these last 2 PG challenges, and hope that we make it - so we come out of this as #1 after we have been working this series over that last year!

After that. I say we consolidate our position and production - and focus, focus and more focus!

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Originally Posted by trigggl

Oh YEAH! Well I say the guy that started the group can name it whatever he wants! Oh, that was your point, too? Nevermind.

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LOL :)

Damn character limits... I've got your too short right here pal. ~X(

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

LOL :)

Damn character limits... I've got your too short right here pal. ~X(

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WARNING: graphic anatomical crudeness ahead:

Hey STM - How did it know your "character" was too short? Did it have one of those new full body x-ray scanners on you?!:D ;) hehehe...couldn't resist!

I agree with you Beer and Slicker - we need to focus on high production projects to retake the #1 overall slot. It's the only way it will ever happen again.
If anyone has bothered to look lately, our team is not that big anymore, either. S.G. Has more members, and LAF has over 1000 more than we do. Crunch3r is right - upgrading is a must, but so is recruiting.

I also agree that PG kills our RAC, but we should do our best to take the crown. We only need a strong showing in the last 2 to do it. Then we don't ever have to do a low paying PG again if we don't want to.

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Originally Posted by DrPop

WARNING: graphic anatomical crudeness ahead:

Hey STM - How did it know your "character" was too short? Did it have one of those new full body x-ray scanners on you?!:D ;) hehehe...couldn't resist!

I agree with you Beer and Slicker - we need to focus on high production projects to retake the #1 overall slot. It's the only way it will ever happen again.
If anyone has bothered to look lately, our team is not that big anymore, either. S.G. Has more members, and LAF has over 1000 more than we do. Crunch3r is right - upgrading is a must, but so is recruiting.

I also agree that PG kills our RAC, but we should do our best to take the crown. We only need a strong showing in the last 2 to do it. Then we don't ever have to do a low paying PG again if we don't want to.

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I have been watching alrigth.....Looks like we are loosing...But I know in my heart that we will return...Maybe we will not be #1 sometime soon....But we will damn sure show them that we are going down figthing!!

Just a reminder... this forum is open for all to see.

I was writing a post in response to what Beerdrinker said then checked the forum setting and realized that ANYONE can read this.

For now I think we should forgo our TEAM issues/strategy conversation in here until we have a TEAM Forum, which appears that we don't have one at the moment.

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

Just a reminder... this forum is open for all to see.

I was writing a post in response to what Beerdrinker said then checked the forum setting and realized that ANYONE can read this.

For now I think we should forgo our TEAM issues/strategy conversation in here until we have a TEAM Forum, which appears that we don't have one at the moment.

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Good observation there! :cool:

Personally, I like having the open forums. One less thing to pay attention to, and avoids any permission issues.

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Originally Posted by Maxwell

Personally, I like having the open forums. One less thing to pay attention to, and avoids any permission issues.

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So you don't think that it really matters if SG or Le Frog members can see what we are planning?

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

So you don't think that it really matters if SG or Le Frog members can see what we are planning?

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Except in some highly specialized applications (e.g., Pentathlon), no. Credit strategy: Aqua for CPU. DNETC for 58xx GPU. etc. They know that. Primegrid challenges: crunch it *really* hard. Duh.

So no, I don't think that's an issue. Plus, one of the points of contention on the old boards was "who gets access" to that protected area. Here, now, everyone's equal.

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Originally Posted by DrPop

WARNING: graphic anatomical crudeness ahead:

Hey STM - How did it know your "character" was too short? Did it have one of those new full body x-ray scanners on you?!:D ;) hehehe...couldn't resist!

I agree with you Beer and Slicker - we need to focus on high production projects to retake the #1 overall slot. It's the only way it will ever happen again.
If anyone has bothered to look lately, our team is not that big anymore, either. S.G. Has more members, and LAF has over 1000 more than we do. Crunch3r is right - upgrading is a must, but so is recruiting.

I also agree that PG kills our RAC, but we should do our best to take the crown. We only need a strong showing in the last 2 to do it. Then we don't ever have to do a low paying PG again if we don't want to.

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Meh. #1 overall just means you have more ATI cards running DNETC. It's become a meaningless stat.

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Originally Posted by Maxwell

Except in some highly specialized applications (e.g., Pentathlon), no. Credit strategy: Aqua for CPU. DNETC for 58xx GPU. etc. They know that. Primegrid challenges: crunch it *really* hard. Duh.

So no, I don't think that's an issue. Plus, one of the points of contention on the old boards was "who gets access" to that protected area. Here, now, everyone's equal.

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Your points are valid and well taken; I shall post my thoughts then. :)

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Originally Posted by Beerdrinker

I have been watching alrigth.....Looks like we are loosing...But I know in my heart that we will return...Maybe we will not be #1 sometime soon....But we will damn sure show them that we are going down figthing!!

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So looking at the stats it appears that SG is going to hand us our proverbial asses in about 20 days according to my math. Checking members we have ~1,500, that is the number of members producing >= 1 credit per day; compare that to SG who has ~2,000 based on the same criteria.

I haven’t looked at comparing other factors yet just member numbers which are out producing us by 4.7 million credits per day.

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Originally Posted by zombies67

Meh. #1 overall just means you have more ATI cards running DNETC. It's become a meaningless stat.

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I understand what you are saying Zombie67 but I don’t agree with that; I understand that there are those that say they earned their credits the hard way, i.e. running cores alone; I applaud those whom have had to do that but it is 2010 and I think that is “horse and buggy whip” mentality.

Should we simply shutdown our ATI and Nvidia cards and drop even further back in rank and merely claim the stats and ranks that LAF and S.G. hold are meaningless?

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Originally Posted by DrPop

… I agree with you Beer and Slicker - we need to focus on high production projects to retake the #1 overall slot. It's the only way it will ever happen again. If anyone has bothered to look lately, our team is not that big anymore, either. S.G. Has more members, and LAF has over 1000 more than we do. Crunch3r is right - upgrading is a must, but so is recruiting. …

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I do agree with crunching high production projects, upgrading and recruiting. The first one is easy to focus on and recruiting is simply going to take time and consistency.

Upgrading is a different story; obviously it takes money and at times a lot of it… These are hard economic times for all of us and the future is uncertain, I know that every dime I’ve been making has been going to paying off debt and saving for a down on a small house or condo; so upgrading wasn’t in any of my rigs immediate future.

Theoretically we have 12,766 members according to BOINC Stats; I know that’s probably not completely accurate but bear with me… the old board lists 2,306, as of this post, there are only 49 members on this board.

There are two things that I have not heard mentioned, retention and reacquisition. What I mean by that is we need to make an effort to retain the members that we already have who are active. And we need to try and reacquire members who were on the board at one time and encourage them to come back.

I think retention of members is important; they need to want to come back to the board. I’m sure that many of you probably think that I am a lunatic with all of my wild “Girls with Guns” posts and my maniacal rants, raves and blogging. I know these things have absolutely nothing to do with any of the projects or Team goals… I hope that at least I have been somewhat interesting and entertaining; personally, I don’t want to read about projects ALL of the time, I need a distraction once in a while.

Also I think we need to make an effort towards reacquisition of old members; we should try and contact them. I know this would be a painstaking task but I believe that it would be worth the effort, so much in fact that I am willing to work on this myself.

Just my 2 cents.

EDIT:

An additional thought just crossed my mind... Assimilation. There are many smaller Teams out there, how about we open dialogue with them and see if they would be willing to be incorporated into SETI.USA. I'm talking about the whole team not just some of their members, that would be poaching and I think that's unethical.

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

I understand what you are saying Zombie67 but I don’t agree with that; I understand that there are those that say they earned their credits the hard way, i.e. running cores alone; I applaud those whom have had to do that but it is 2010 and I think that is “horse and buggy whip” mentality.

Should we simply shutdown our ATI and Nvidia cards and drop even further back in rank and merely claim the stats and ranks that LAF and S.G. hold are meaningless?

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Eh? I never said anything about shutting down anything. We should continue to use the resources we have. For example, #1 in project blah means we are #1 in blah. If we aren't #1 there yet, we should try to be.

Being #1 in DNETC doesn't mean we are #1 in BOINC. But being #1 in BOINC means you must be #1 in DNETC. And nothing else matters, really. Therefore total credits have become meaningless.

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

Should we simply shutdown our ATI and Nvidia cards and drop even further back in rank and merely claim the stats and ranks that LAF and S.G. hold are meaningless?

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Originally Posted by zombie67

Eh? I never said anything about shutting down anything. We should continue to use the resources we have. For example, #1 in project blah means we are #1 in blah. If we aren't #1 there yet, we should try to be.

Being #1 in DNETC doesn't mean we are #1 in BOINC. But being #1 in BOINC means you must be #1 in DNETC. And nothing else matters, really. Therefore total credits have become meaningless.

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I didn't say you did, I was simply posing the question which I thought was the logical next step in the debate... If total credits have become meaningless then why crunch at all?

What I probably should have said is that I don't believe that the credits are meaningless. Yes DNETC seems to be fairly libral with their credits but even if they reduced the credits by a factor of 10 or 100, we would still be exactly where we are along with the rest of the teams.

Let me put this another way, if we were #1 in Einstein and that pushed us into the #1 position overall, doesn't that just mean we have more cores running than anyone else? Does that suddenly make the credits meaningless?

Video card technology has jumped leaps and bounds past CPU's and also how tasks are processed by each; core technology will catch up eventually. And I believe we will catch up too.

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

I didn't say you did, I was simply posing the question which I thought was the logical next step in the debate... If total credits have become meaningless then why crunch at all?

What I probably should have said is that I don't believe that the credits are meaningless. Yes DNETC seems to be fairly libral with their credits but even if they reduced the credits by a factor of 10 or 100, we would still be exactly where we are along with the rest of the teams.

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Nope. We are getting our ass kicked specifically because of a few GPU projects, and because other teams have more GPUs on them than we do. The CPU projects have become meaningless when comparing cross-project stats.

Kevint saw this coming over a year ago and said so explicitly. He gave us fair warning and we didn't do enough like the other big teams did.

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Originally Posted by zombie67

Nope. We are getting our ass kicked specifically because of a few GPU projects, and because other teams have more GPUs on them than we do. The CPU projects have become meaningless when comparing cross-project stats.

Kevint saw this coming over a year ago and said so explicitly. He gave us fair warning and we didn't do enough like the other big teams did.

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Well, I get the fact that the GPU projects are hurting us because we are unable to take advantage of them. So we simply need to get more GPU's online and that takes money.

Cross-project comparison... I understand what you are saying, it's comparing apples to oranges. I'm not sure if there is a fix for that issue.

The credit system is the only thing we have right now as a gauge and no matter what that is ever changed to, it's still going to be skewed IMHO.

No matter what, it still comes down to shear horsepower, the one with the most horses wins and right now THEY have the most. We need to change that.

Getting this thread back to its original purpose...

One of our hard fought #1's is ABC. Still pays pretty well on 64-bit machines (the only thing I'm running now). And were losing ground...

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=proj&proj=abc