Assistance needed on freshening up a Dell

I have a trusty Dell desktop that is not too old, but was initially bought a few years back, with the idea of being used for the most simple of daily tasks for my mother. We have since bought her a nice little Toshiba lappy and is very happy with it. So now, the trusty little Dell needs a boost in Horse Power. Since it has been a few years since I last juiced up a desktop, I could not think of a better place to ask for help, especially since this machine will be continuing it's main job as a cruncher for us. It is a simple machine with a 2.53 CeleronD and XP.

So my two questions are:

1. What ram can I get to improve performance for this machine?

2. Is there a GPU available for this box that will work for projects like PG, Moo, Einstien or MW? If not, a suggested inexpensive GPU just to keep me sane while I use the machine daily.

Box info:

Service tag: FM9HZB1
CPID: http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?p...a354f31695eef9

What other info do I need to provide to help in the efforts?

Thank you!
Aaron

Well since I'm the first to respond I could use more info as the Dell online service manual lists two different versions. The eassy way would be to run CPU-Z. CPU-Z will give very detailed info on the system hardware. After CPU-Z starts click on the "About" tab and then in the bottom section labeled "Tools" click the "Save Report (.TXT)" button. Next add the report to your next post as an attachment.

F$

Thank you for the very clear and detailed reply. The report does not seem to want to attach to the post via the uploader due to it being 34.5k and the forum limit for this type of file is 19.5k (find that hard to believe).

So I just uploaded it quick to my old mediafire account:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?80cjhwrwywej6nt

Thank you.

Max RAM is 2GB DDR PC3200

Only slots on motherboard are 3 PCIs, so gonna need 3 of these as the best you can do: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500221 They should get you up to ~210k credits/day

The CPU can only be upgraded to a P4 so really not worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Max RAM is 2GB DDR PC3200

Only slots on motherboard are 3 PCIs, so gonna need 3 of these as the best you can do: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500221 They should get you up to ~210k credits/day

The CPU can only be upgraded to a P4 so really not worth it.

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Except I have a Pentium 4@2.8Ghz Socket-478 denim can have for free. Specs (Here) Note: This Pentium 4 uses 32-bit instruction set so you can only run a 32-bit OS.

Also, I have to dig through my parts box to be sure but I think I have a few sticks of PC3200 512BM or 1GB RAM. If I can find them there yours denim.

Side note:
If you are interested I think some of us on the team might be able to come up with better hardware that will fit that box. I will ask around to see what is out there.

For my part I have a 420 Watt PSU, some DDR2 RAM I have to inventory, a nVidia 9800GT GPU, and an AMD Athlon x2 Dual Core CPU. Someone else might be able to do better on the CPU....

F$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Max RAM is 2GB DDR PC3200

Only slots on motherboard are 3 PCIs, so gonna need 3 of these as the best you can do: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500221 They should get you up to ~210k credits/day

The CPU can only be upgraded to a P4 so really not worth it.

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I just did this to a HP Dual Core and with the 3 GPUs John recommends it cranks out 200k daily now from dirt for a $150 investment. They had them at comp usa for $50 after a rebate.

I just added a USB fan to cool the GPUs but you may have to add an extra fan or such as I also left the case open.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaptainkarl1

I just did this to a HP Dual Core and with the 3 GPUs John recommends it cranks out 200k daily now from dirt for a $150 investment. They had them at comp usa for $50 after a rebate.

I just added a USB fan to cool the GPUs but you may have to add an extra fan or such as I also left the case open.

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Yeah, that case is not made for crunching. My old Keithinator box had that same case. My mods to help ventilate it were dead dog ugly... but it worked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Max RAM is 2GB DDR PC3200

Only slots on motherboard are 3 PCIs, so gonna need 3 of these as the best you can do: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814500221 They should get you up to ~210k credits/day

The CPU can only be upgraded to a P4 so really not worth it.

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Thank you very much for the reply and suggestion John. So you feel that is a good idea to grab three of these GPU's?

I will go with which ever you guys feel is the best use of this box and money spent on upgrading it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Except I have a Pentium 4@2.8Ghz Socket-478 denim can have for free. Specs (Here) Note: This Pentium 4 uses 32-bit instruction set so you can only run a 32-bit OS.

Also, I have to dig through my parts box to be sure but I think I have a few sticks of PC3200 512BM or 1GB RAM. If I can find them there yours denim.

Side note:
If you are interested I think some of us on the team might be able to come up with better hardware that will fit that box. I will ask around to see what is out there.

For my part I have a 420 Watt PSU, some DDR2 RAM I have to inventory, a nVidia 9800GT GPU, and an AMD Athlon x2 Dual Core CPU. Someone else might be able to do better on the CPU....

F$

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Wow, thank you. I would feel strange taking freebies. Can the CPU (as I have never done it, only spectated) be swaped out as easy as RAM with zero adjustments from the fool at the keyboard?

As for that nVidia 9800, would it be more effective to run that single card, or grab three of the one's John suggested?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Yeah, that case is not made for crunching. My old Keithinator box had that same case. My mods to help ventilate it were dead dog ugly... but it worked.

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I'm not worried about pretty (cars and women do not apply to that statement). ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denim

Wow, thank you. I would feel strange taking freebies. Can the CPU (as I have never done it, only spectated) be swaped out as easy as RAM with zero adjustments from the fool at the keyboard?

As for that nVidia 9800, would it be more effective to run that single card, or grab three of the one's John suggested?

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Swapping CPUs is slightly more involved then RAM. Mainly cleaning the Thermal Interface Material (TIM), aka CPU paste, off of the CPU and heatsink. That is easily done with Isopropyl alcohol and a clean lint free (Micro Fiber) cloth.

For applying new paste there are several schools of thought on this and is a huge ongoing debate on many techie forums but I won't bore you with it. Instead I'll point you to rational sources for some quick tutorials.

NCIX: Installing Thermal Compound (NCIX Tech Tips #11) Video

[H]ard|OCP: Thermal Paste Shootout - Q209 (pg. 3 - Applying the paste)

Note that the NCIX video demos two CPU coolers that are not used much anymore. If after looking at your system, you find it hard to figure out then take a pic and post it. Then I can find a youtube video (hopefully) that matches your cooler.

The 9800GT is an old GPU. A dinosaur in tech terms. I offered as an alternative to shelling out cash. But to answer your question, there of those 430s with totally smoke the 9800.

F$

PS. No reply yet to my first PM about helping you but I did find Three Pentium 4 CPUs in my collection. Two are Socket 478 so they will work with your current MB and the other is Socket 775. I also found a Socket 775 MB that has (x2) PCI slots and (x1) PCIe x16 slot. I was also able to dig up the 420 Watt PSU I mentioned before.

I forget to go through my RAM collection but I promise to do that tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

I forget to go through my RAM collection but I promise to do that tomorrow.

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One of his sticks of RAM is already a 1GB. 1 more and he'll be all set there :)

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

One of his sticks of RAM is already a 1GB. 1 more and he'll be all set there :)

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DOH.... I missed that. :-$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Swapping CPUs is slightly more involved then RAM. Mainly cleaning the Thermal Interface Material (TIM), aka CPU paste, off of the CPU and heatsink. That is easily done with Isopropyl alcohol and a clean lint free (Micro Fiber) cloth.

For applying new paste there are several schools of thought on this and is a huge ongoing debate on many techie forums but I won't bore you with it. Instead I'll point you to rational sources for some quick tutorials.

NCIX: Installing Thermal Compound (NCIX Tech Tips #11) Video

[H]ard|OCP: Thermal Paste Shootout - Q209 (pg. 3 - Applying the paste)

Note that the NCIX video demos two CPU coolers that are not used much anymore. If after looking at your system, you find it hard to figure out then take a pic and post it. Then I can find a youtube video (hopefully) that matches your cooler.

The 9800GT is an old GPU. A dinosaur in tech terms. I offered as an alternative to shelling out cash. But to answer your question, there of those 430s with totally smoke the 9800.

F$

PS. No reply yet to my first PM about helping you but I did find Three Pentium 4 CPUs in my collection. Two are Socket 478 so they will work with your current MB and the other is Socket 775. I also found a Socket 775 MB that has (x2) PCI slots and (x1) PCIe x16 slot. I was also able to dig up the 420 Watt PSU I mentioned before.

I forget to go through my RAM collection but I promise to do that tomorrow.

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Thank you for the links. I will check them out as upgrading the CPU would be very nice, especially if it is a dual core. There is nothing wrong with the Celeron D in this box, it is just pretty pokey and seems to get loaded quickly.

GPU wise, would my machine allow me to grab a 430 or two and run your 9800 also?

I am sorry for so many questions, I am just rusty on the hardware side and over the last few years have become strictly an end user. No rush on the RAM, if you find something, that would be great if not no worries I can buy a stick if it is the best approach. Going up to 2GB would be nice, maybe attempt to run some Lattice on this box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denim

Thank you for the links. I will check them out as upgrading the CPU would be very nice, especially if it is a dual core. There is nothing wrong with the Celeron D in this box, it is just pretty pokey and seems to get loaded quickly.

GPU wise, would my machine allow me to grab a 430 or two and run your 9800 also?

I am sorry for so many questions, I am just rusty on the hardware side and over the last few years have become strictly an end user. No rush on the RAM, if you find something, that would be great if not no worries I can buy a stick if it is the best approach. Going up to 2GB would be nice, maybe attempt to run some Lattice on this box.

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No worries with the questions. I really do not mind.

For the CPUs, the AMD would need a different MB then the one you have now. Unfortunately I do not have a working MB for that AMD. The Pentium 4s I mentioned are all single core CPUs.

Your current system cannot use the 9800GT since it does not have a PCIe slot.

Now I do have a Socket-775 Micro-ATX MB that can use two of the Pentium CPUs I mention previously. Plus it has two PCI slots (that will accept the 430) and one PCIe slot that will accept the 9800GT.
If I can find a heatsink for this MB then you won't have to bother with installing the CPU as I can do the assembly before shipping. I would do it anyway to make sure the hardware still works..... :P

Now I think the AMD Athlon-64 x2 would be a better CPU then a single core Pentium. So I'm still looking and asking around.

F$

Update:

I found a stick of Hynix PC3200U CL3 @1GB M/N: HYMD512646CP8J-D43AA. And for what it's worth, it has a Dell label on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Update:

I found a stick of Hynix PC3200U CL3 @1GB M/N: HYMD512646CP8J-D43AA. And for what it's worth, it has a Dell label on it.

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That's awesome. Can you shoot me a PM with your Paypal or mailing address and what you would like for the stick?

I might go ahead an grab one of the 430's to start. :)

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Originally Posted by denim

That's awesome. Can you shoot me a PM with your Paypal or mailing address and what you would like for the stick?

I might go ahead an grab one of the 430's to start. :)

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No need for PayPal. The stick is yours just PM you addy so I can get it out to you.

As for the 9800GT I tested it today. The card works but the stock cooler sucks. It cannot keep the GPU cool. I down clocked the card to 300Mhz and even when the card is idle GPU temp is in 55C! Running FurMark on the card at a stock clock of 600Mhz temps hit 90C+ in less then 90 seconds. All this is after I cleaned the GPU chip and heatsink and applied new Arctic Silver 5. My guess is the cooler isn't making proper contact with the GPU.

Bottom line... I cannot recommend this card. maybe if at some point I can find a decent aftermarket cooler on the cheap...... but its not really worth it. Better to spend that cash on a better card.

F$

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

No need for PayPal. The stick is yours just PM you addy so I can get it out to you.

As for the 9800GT I tested it today. The card works but the stock cooler sucks. It cannot keep the GPU cool. I down clocked the card to 300Mhz and even when the card is idle GPU temp is in 55C! Running FurMark on the card at a stock clock of 600Mhz temps hit 90C+ in less then 90 seconds. All this is after I cleaned the GPU chip and heatsink and applied new Arctic Silver 5. My guess is the cooler isn't making proper contact with the GPU.

Bottom line... I cannot recommend this card. maybe if at some point I can find a decent aftermarket cooler on the cheap...... but its not really worth it. Better to spend that cash on a better card.

F$

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Thank you on the RAM! And thank you for taking the time and effort on that GPU.

GPU wise, would it be a massive drop off if I cheaped out a little and went with something like a 6200 instead of the 430? Or just suck it up and spend a few extra on the 430? Only asking because of the three slots the price difference is three times over. And should I assume a Power Supply upgrade is required to feed 3 stronger GPU's of this nature?

Edit: After reading a lot of the feedback and reviews, the 430 that John suggested sounds like the best one performance wise and is worth the money. :)


:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denim

Edit: After reading a lot of the feedback and reviews, the 430 that John suggested sounds like the best one performance wise and is worth the money. :)

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Yeppers. :-bd

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denim

Thank you on the RAM! And thank you for taking the time and effort on that GPU.

GPU wise, would it be a massive drop off if I cheaped out a little and went with something like a 6200 instead of the 430? Or just suck it up and spend a few extra on the 430? Only asking because of the three slots the price difference is three times over. And should I assume a Power Supply upgrade is required to feed 3 stronger GPU's of this nature?

Edit: After reading a lot of the feedback and reviews, the 430 that John suggested sounds like the best one performance wise and is worth the money. :)


:)

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I am not even sure that the Nvidia 6200 can crunch!!

Anyway. Stay with the 430. These guys know their stuff. So if they tell that´s the best buy for you - it probably is!

Shop around and you may find them a little cheaper at tigerdirect or fry's. Just remember to take into consideration whether or not you'll need to pay sales tax depending on your location vs. who you order from.

And be sure to match the model number. Zotac also makes a GT 430 PCIe version that looks almost exactly like the PCI version.

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Shop around and you may find them a little cheaper at tigerdirect or fry's. Just remember to take into consideration whether or not you'll need to pay sales tax depending on your location vs. who you order from.

And be sure to match the model number. Zotac also makes a GT 430 PCIe version that looks almost exactly like the PCI version.

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The PCI-e version has more on board ram but doesn't seem to do that much more work for it.

Thanks guys. Will the 430 (regardless of quantity) require a stronger PSU?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by denim

Thanks guys. Will the 430 (regardless of quantity) require a stronger PSU?

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No the both the PCI and PCI-e versions run off the slot 25 watts or something like that. I have 3 jammed in one box and didn't upgrade the psu.

Big thank you goes out to F$ for the stick of RAM. It made a serious difference in terms of just using the computer when BOINC was running. Meaning I could have more then 2 tabs open with NFS/WUprop/FreeHal not sezing everything up. :) :)

Next step is one or two GPU's for this box.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beerdrinker

I am not even sure that the Nvidia 6200 can crunch!!

Anyway. Stay with the 430. These guys know their stuff. So if they tell that´s the best buy for you - it probably is!

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A 6200 cannot crunch. The first nVidia GPUs that could crunch were the 8400 series which start with a whopping 16 stream processors at really low speeds and take longer than a single core on an i7 to finish a mini_collatz workunit.

I just scavenged a Dell desktop pc on the junkyard today. It has a P4 @ 3.06Ghz...I am guessing it´s this CPU:


http://ark.intel.com/products/27499/...he-533-MHz-FSB

Can that old beast run in your Dell? If yes I´ll ship it to you..

I have one of these cards in a Dell pc that had on board video card and no agp slot. It's a hyperthread enabled cpu. Between the vid card and cpu it does enough work to make it worthwhile. I have a pci slot open and another Zotac in the box. This may sound dumb but can I just plug the other card in and continue to march or is there more to it to get the extra card to crunch WU's?


Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andoh

I have one of these cards in a Dell pc that had on board video card and no agp slot. It's a hyperthread enabled cpu. Between the vid card and cpu it does enough work to make it worthwhile. I have a pci slot open and another Zotac in the box. This may sound dumb but can I just plug the other card in and continue to march or is there more to it to get the extra card to crunch WU's?


Steve

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After installing the card, you will need to install the video driver for it. That should all that is needed though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beerdrinker

I just scavenged a Dell desktop pc on the junkyard today. It has a P4 @ 3.06Ghz...I am guessing it´s this CPU:


http://ark.intel.com/products/27499/...he-533-MHz-FSB

Can that old beast run in your Dell? If yes I´ll ship it to you..

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I'm not sure. Admittedly, I'm a little nervous about swapping out CPU.

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Originally Posted by denim

I'm not sure. Admittedly, I'm a little nervous about swapping out CPU.

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Maybe F$ can be of some assistance?

Swap CPU?

Man you are brave only to think about that, will you do it?

I got all sweaty of changing the mouse or the keyboard.

Coward Duke

http://www.badgerflats.com/blog/wp-c.../10/coward.jpg

Wait for some help of our friends. I bet there are a lot that can help you with that.

Changing out the more recent Intel CPUs is definitely far easier than the older ones, since the older ones actually had pins on them that would bend very very easily. Still, changing the CPU is an easy task and is nothing to be feared. Just be mindful of the pins and resist the urge to use more thermal grease than is needed. Everything will work out fine :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Changing out the more recent Intel CPUs is definitely far easier than the older ones, since the older ones actually had pins on them that would bend very very easily. Still, changing the CPU is an easy task and is nothing to be feared. Just be mindful of the pins and resist the urge to use more thermal grease than is needed. Everything will work out fine :)

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++++1

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Changing out the more recent Intel CPUs is definitely far easier than the older ones, since the older ones actually had pins on them that would bend very very easily. Still, changing the CPU is an easy task and is nothing to be feared. Just be mindful of the pins and resist the urge to use more thermal grease than is needed. Everything will work out fine :)

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--> Denim:

I can provide a photo of the CPU in question. That will give our HW guru´s the info needed to decide wheter it fits or not??

Little update, I ordered a trio of the GT430 GPU's (at refurb pricing I might add ;) ) and they just arrived last night. I will try to install them tonight. I think I'm still a little too chicken to do a CPU swap yet.

Forgot to update that the stock on board power supply was not enough to start up the machine with even only one GT430 installed. So I ordered a Blue Star 680 watt power supply off Geeks.com. Silly, but fun gold case and blue LED. My son and I installed the power supply today and one of the GT430's. So far it seems to be running great and the picture is so much better on this machine. I will attempt trying to install a 2nd GPU soon and see if they will play nice with each other and still be stable.

Wanted to thank everyone who helped pointing me in the right direction and especially the RAM donation. I had forgotten how fun it was to soup up my computer, almost the same little thrill of making something better and unique, just like when upgrading performance bit's on my cars. :)

Hi Denim, long time, how you been? Glad to hear you got yourself a new PSU, that should do the trick. How many amps is the 12V rail rated for? It will say on the sticker on the side of your new PSU - or post a link to it on New egg or something and I can find it for you. :). The number it says there will tell us if you can run all 3 of your 430s in the same rig. ;)
Take care and good to see you on here!

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Originally Posted by DrPop

Hi Denim, long time, how you been? Glad to hear you got yourself a new PSU, that should do the trick. How many amps is the 12V rail rated for? It will say on the sticker on the side of your new PSU - or post a link to it on New egg or something and I can find it for you. :). The number it says there will tell us if you can run all 3 of your 430s in the same rig. ;)
Take care and good to see you on here!

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Hello DrPop. :) Been on the rollercoaster called life, no matter how hard I work to steer it, I am just along for the ride it seems.

Back to the PSU, model number BL-680G-24PE (Yes, that is g for GOLD!) ;)

The amp output on the sticker, with +12V input, is saying 22A.

My only worry is that a few people said these 430's don't always play nice, but if able to get them stable, that would be awesome! Help make up some for all the cores and two big GPU's I lost recently.