To build or not to build... that is the question.

So here is what I am looking at now.

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 AM3+
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333
Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA
Seagate Barracuda ST3500413AS 500GB

I give up... this is just not going to work. I'd have to spend another $369 for a PSU to power the thing. ~X(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

I give up... this is just not going to work. I'd have to spend another $369 for a PSU to power the thing. ~X(

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How much watt do you need like 1000 or something?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tomis

How much watt do you need like 1000 or something?

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The issue is that I need 8 6-pin PCIe connectors. The 1200 watt PSU that I have on my main rig can only support 6; so trying to run 4 GPUs on a single board isn't going to work with any of the 3 PSUs that I have.

The other issue was I didn't mind spending the $450 on the original configuration and I lost the opportunity to pick up the Mobo/CPU combo I wanted since the price went up. The new configuration would cost me $550 but I really didn't want to spend that much and I didn't factor in the PSU that I would need which now basically kills this project.

The other issue is the fact that it's costing me $100+ a month to run the 3 rigs I have; frankly, I have other projects in the works which would be a better use of money as well as generate income.

Steve, do you already have a spare PSU? Say 400W+?

Although this is not for the faint of heart, there is a technique for running two PSUs in tandem. That was the mod I used on Blackie for about six months or so. If you are interested I dig up the details.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Steve, do you already have a spare PSU? Say 400W+?

Although this is not for the faint of heart, there is a technique for running two PSUs in tandem. That was the mod I used on Blackie for about six months or so. If you are interested I dig up the details.

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Yes. I have a 800w CoolerMax and a 700w Thermaltake; each is running my 2 Dells that contain my GTX460's.

I assume you are talking about one of these? Dual PSU Adapter

STM, my man...you are trying to throw way too much money at this project! :D
I would use your 800W that you already have for the main PSU. That will run 2 GPUs at least. Then, get one of these for each additional GPU beyond the first 2. So, for example, if you would like to run 4 GPUs in the rig, then get 2 of these. That's only $50 over the price of the mobo and CPU.
Or, the other way is to do like F$ suggests and loop 2 big PSUs together. My question is why 4 in the one rig, though?

Are there any parts you can scavange from the 2 single core rigs - like HDDs or optical drives? They don't have to be high end, they just have to work. :) Then, when it's all said and done, I would sell whatever parts from those single core rigs are worth selling (like the 750W PSU, etc)...you don't need them around and may as well get some pocket change back...

...but, as you say - photography equipment you can actually make money with, so...I understand those kind of thoughts! Not to mention it's a blast. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrPop

STM, my man...you are trying to throw way too much money at this project! :D
I would use your 800W that you already have for the main PSU. That will run 2 GPUs at least. Then, get one of these for each additional GPU beyond the first 2. So, for example, if you would like to run 4 GPUs in the rig, then get 2 of these. That's only $50 over the price of the mobo and CPU.
Or, the other way is to do like F$ suggests and loop 2 big PSUs together. My question is why 4 in the one rig, though?

Are there any parts you can scavange from the 2 single core rigs - like HDDs or optical drives? They don't have to be high end, they just have to work. :) Then, when it's all said and done, I would sell whatever parts from those single core rigs are worth selling (like the 750W PSU, etc)...you don't need them around and may as well get some pocket change back...

...but, as you say - photography equipment you can actually make money with, so...I understand those kind of thoughts! Not to mention it's a blast. ;)

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Yeah what he said.

I have noticed on eBay that if use a good picture (No problem there) and a good honest description, you can make more money selling Dell parts then you can with complete systems. At least when the systems aren't too old. Dell GX240/280 parts still seem to do wall as Dell sold a ton of 'em. Used CD-ROMs are a no-no on eBay but the higher speed DVD burners can fetch a few bucks. And the cooling fan for the GX280 will sell as that part has a high failure rate. One last thing. If you try to sell the MB(s) sell them with the CPU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

Yes. I have a 800w CoolerMax and a 700w Thermaltake; each is running my 2 Dells that contain my GTX460's.

I assume you are talking about one of these? Dual PSU Adapter

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Yeppers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrPop

STM, my man...you are trying to throw way too much money at this project! :D
I would use your 800W that you already have for the main PSU. That will run 2 GPUs at least. Then, get one of these for each additional GPU beyond the first 2. So, for example, if you would like to run 4 GPUs in the rig, then get 2 of these. That's only $50 over the price of the mobo and CPU.
Or, the other way is to do like F$ suggests and loop 2 big PSUs together. My question is why 4 in the one rig, though?

Are there any parts you can scavange from the 2 single core rigs - like HDDs or optical drives? They don't have to be high end, they just have to work. :) Then, when it's all said and done, I would sell whatever parts from those single core rigs are worth selling (like the 750W PSU, etc)...you don't need them around and may as well get some pocket change back...

...but, as you say - photography equipment you can actually make money with, so...I understand those kind of thoughts! Not to mention it's a blast. ;)

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I thought I was trying to save some money. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

So here is what I am looking at now.

GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD7 AM3+ - $249
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T Black Edition Thuban 3.3GHz - $189
CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 - $50+
Sony Optiarc CD/DVD Burner Black SATA - Combo Deal - $50+
Seagate Barracuda ST3500413AS 500GB

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Here were my thought on the above parts. The mobo has 6 slots in this configuration: PCI Express 2.0 x16: 6(x16, x16, x8, x8, x4, x4) So it may be able to handle 4 GPUs which would eliminate the need to build another system, if I can get all of my GPUs to run in 2 rigs. The other thing was this is an AM3+ board so I can upgrade to Bulldozer when it comes out.

Using the AMD 1100, I get the 6 cores for now and it can be used as a spare for my other rig if it burns out or I could sell it.

I still would need to buy an optical drive but may not have to buy a hard drive. Explanation further down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

The issue is that I need 8 6-pin PCIe connectors. The 1200 watt PSU that I have on my main rig can only support 6; so trying to run 4 GPUs on a single board isn't going to work with any of the 3 PSUs that I have.

The other issue was I didn't mind spending the $450 on the original configuration and I lost the opportunity to pick up the Mobo/CPU combo I wanted since the price went up. The new configuration would cost me $550 but I really didn't want to spend that much and I didn't factor in the PSU that I would need which now basically kills this project.

The other issue is the fact that it's costing me $100+ a month to run the 3 rigs I have; frankly, I have other projects in the works which would be a better use of money as well as generate income.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Steve, do you already have a spare PSU? Say 400W+?

Although this is not for the faint of heart, there is a technique for running two PSUs in tandem. That was the mod I used on Blackie for about six months or so. If you are interested I dig up the details.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

Yes. I have a 800w CoolerMax and a 700w Thermaltake; each is running my 2 Dells that contain my GTX460's.

I assume you are talking about one of these? Dual PSU Adapter

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It didn't hit me till later that I didn't take into account the PSU and the number of 6pin PCIe connectors that I would need. Fire$torm has the fix to tandem two of my PSUs together. I have another PSU as well; a Rosewill 850 which has 4 6pin PCIe on it. Both the CoolerMax 800 and the Thermaltake 700 only have 2 dedicated 6pin PCIe connectors but I have a couple 4pin power to 6pin PCIe connectors laying around somewhere; this would solve the additional connections on either of the last PSUs mentioned.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Yeah what he said.

I have noticed on eBay that if use a good picture (No problem there) and a good honest description, you can make more money selling Dell parts then you can with complete systems. At least when the systems aren't too old. Dell GX240/280 parts still seem to do wall as Dell sold a ton of 'em. Used CD-ROMs are a no-no on eBay but the higher speed DVD burners can fetch a few bucks. And the cooling fan for the GX280 will sell as that part has a high failure rate. One last thing. If you try to sell the MB(s) sell them with the CPU.

Yeppers.

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Now the situation with the Dell GX-280's... They belong to work which I signed out for them a few years ago; eventually they may want them back but probably not. Since then, I have had to replace both PSUs and 1 hard drive(I think) which I paid for the parts myself. So I may not have to buy a HDD for this new rig. If I build this new rig, I will pull all of my parts from the Dells and return them to work where they will still in a storage room and collect dust until someone decides to BER(beyond economical repair) them and throw them away.

So I can't really sell the parts.

The price for this new rig would be ~$500. Now for the big issue that is really preventing me from doing all of this... the cost of the power. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it costs be $107 a month to power what I have running now. This new rig would push that higher even though I would be eliminating my other 2 rigs. Spending $1200+ a year on power for something that only gives me imaginary internet credits is a lot of money. I like doing the whole crunching thing but like I said, I have other projects that could really us that money.

Thus my quandary...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

Thus my quandary...

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Understood. So maybe put the system on the back burner, invest available monies into project/New Career with a return on investment potential and go have some fun. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Understood. So maybe put the system on the back burner, invest available monies into project/New Career with a return on investment potential and go have some fun. :D

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Yeah, that is what I am going to do. I'll be pulling the plug on 2 of my rigs in the next few days; I will run my main rig but it will only be on a limited basis. I'll be selling all of my spare parts to help fund my endeavor. I should have a list put together in a couple of days of what I have and then post them on the board. I'm not sure what I can get for them; I was kind of thinking highest bidder at the moment.

Honestly, that is what I would do too, in your shoes. Keep your big rig, and just be happy with what it can crunch. I know it can pack a wallop! :D
Then sell all your other parts you can, and put the funds into your other hobby which can actually make you money. Not to mention bring close proximity with fabulous looking babes! :-$:P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

The price for this new rig would be ~$500. Now for the big issue that is really preventing me from doing all of this... the cost of the power. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, it costs be $107 a month to power what I have running now. This new rig would push that higher even though I would be eliminating my other 2 rigs. Spending $1200+ a year on power for something that only gives me imaginary internet credits is a lot of money. I like doing the whole crunching thing but like I said, I have other projects that could really us that money.

Thus my quandary...

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Actually!

ok 3 rigs costing you $107/month right now. If you put all your GPUs into a single rig, retired the other 2 rigs, you'd actually be paying less than that. A noticeable amount less. By using 1 rig, you eliminate having to power 2 southbridges, 2 northbridges, 2 hard drives, 2 optical drives, 2 sets of RAM, however many fans are in the 2 rigs, and, the biggest chunk of them all, it's 2 CPUs you no longer have to power. Also, the 1 rig will create less heat, saving additional money on home cooling (though requiring more heat in the winter). I'm betting by combining everything into 1 rig, you save at least 30% per month off that bill. Maybe 40% since you're tossing dells :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Actually! . . . Maybe 40% since you're tossing dells :D

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LOL! :)) I love that line! :D

I need to convince "she who holds the checkbook" that it would be more ecconomical to replace an AMD 4000, Q6600, and Q9540 (the latter two with ATI 3870 GPUs) with a new i7 CPU and newer GPU given that our power bill is over $300/month - especially since I quite my second job. Any stats would be appreciated...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by John P. Myers

Actually!

ok 3 rigs costing you $107/month right now. If you put all your GPUs into a single rig, retired the other 2 rigs, you'd actually be paying less than that. A noticeable amount less. By using 1 rig, you eliminate having to power 2 southbridges, 2 northbridges, 2 hard drives, 2 optical drives, 2 sets of RAM, however many fans are in the 2 rigs, and, the biggest chunk of them all, it's 2 CPUs you no longer have to power. Also, the 1 rig will create less heat, saving additional money on home cooling (though requiring more heat in the winter). I'm betting by combining everything into 1 rig, you save at least 30% per month off that bill. Maybe 40% since you're tossing dells :D

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I'm not sure I would agree with your hypothesis. The current configuration of the Dells are such:

Total for both Dell GX-280s

1300 w (1 - 600 W PSU & 1 - 700 W PSU)
2 - GTX460 GPUs
2 - Cores
2 - N Bridge
2 - S Bridge
2 - Fan
2 - HDD
2 - CDD
4 - 1 GB RAM

The new configuration using the AMD 1100T

1450 w (1 - 850 W PSU & 1 - 600 W PSU)
2 - GT460 GPUs
2 - HD5830 GPUs
6 - Cores
1 - N Bridge
1 - S Bridge
1 - HDD
1 - DVD
2 - 4 GB RAM

I still need to use 2 PSUs to power the 4 GPUs; I'd be doubling the power usage with the GPUs alone. The AMD chip is going to use more power and create more heat than the 2 Dells. My main rig has the AMD 1100T and 3 HD5870s in it; I might as well be running a space heater. Just using a data logger to calculate my main rig usage shows $50 a month cost. I took a 24 hour reading from my power meter running just my main rig and it shows that it would actually cost me $96 a month. The data logger accounts only for actual rig usage. The meter reading accounts for HVAC usage as well; however, I had to 'weather normalize' the data since the first day I took a meter read it was 108° day and the second time it was a 111° day. Although the rig only costs $50 a month to run, it costs another $46 in cooling a month.

Since the original calculation of $107 a month for 3 rigs and most of that is my main rig and considering a new build would use more power and cooling than my main rig, it simply isn't possible to use less power by consolidating.

Edit:

One thing that is not taken into consideration is that these rigs were not all running the same apps. We all know different apps put different demands on the CPUs and GPUs. Also the numbers here would only represent summer months and the HVAC cooling cost is based on the assumption that it remains 111° for a billing period of 29 days. These costs are based on my location and kWh cost. So someone on the east coast might pay more per kWh but I doubt they see many 111° days if any.

With that in mind to compare usage it would probably be better to eliminate dollar cost and make only either kWh or BTU comparisons... but I'm sure I have bored you to death already. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Slicker

I need to convince "she who holds the checkbook" that it would be more economical to replace an AMD 4000, Q6600, and Q9540 (the latter two with ATI 3870 GPUs) with a new i7 CPU and newer GPU given that our power bill is over $300/month - especially since I quite my second job. Any stats would be appreciated...

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Since I have never run any of those types, I'm afraid that I would not be much help.

Have you considered bribing the CFO with expensive jewelry or fragrances like rose oil? :D

I'll give it a shot ;)
AMD 4000+ = 65W
Intel Q6600 = 105W
Intel Q9540 = 95W
Mobo NB + SB = 30W x3 = 90W
ATI HD3870 = 106W x2 = 212W (@496GFLOPs ea. = 4.68Gflops/W)
HDD = 20W x3 = 60W
Optical Drive = 5W x3 = 15W
1 stick RAM = 10W x 6? = 60W
80mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
120mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
TOTAL for 3 rigs: 714W x 1.2 (for Min. inefficiency of PSU) = 857W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 66.5 + 992 = 1058.5 GFLOPs
Your current combined Efficiency: 1.24GFLOPs /Watt

*** *** *** *** ***
Sandy Bridge i7-2600K Sandy Bridge = 95W
mobo NB + SB = 30W
HDD = 20W
Optical Drive = 5W
2 sticks RAM = 20W
80mm fan = 2W
120mm fan = 2W
ATI HD5870 = 188W (@2720GFLOPs = 14.5GFLOPs/W!!!)
TOTAL for new rig: 362W x 1.2 = 434W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 83.3 + 2720 = 2803.3 GFLOPs
Your NEW combined Efficiency: 6.46GFLOPs /Watt

I think that might be enough to convince her - new rig is 5.2 x MORE efficient than running the 3 old rigs put together. In other words, it has 2.6x the processing power, and uses exactly half of the electricity to do it.
Hope that helps! %%-**==

Ahhh hey guys....

I think you are confusing CPU TDP (Thermal Design Power) with electrical power consumption. TDP refers to the max. amount of heat in Watts a CPU is designed to generate. All current CPUs use a lot more electrical power then their TDP rating.

Take a look at this ---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...5,2278-11.html

In that case, the equation will be even MORE lopsided in favor of the new rig! :D

However, most of those times, like for example in the link you posted, that is the total watts of the rig tested, not watts of the CPU. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrPop

I'll give it a shot ;)
AMD 4000+ = 65W
Intel Q6600 = 105W
Intel Q9540 = 95W
Mobo NB + SB = 30W x3 = 90W
ATI HD3870 = 106W x2 = 212W (@496GFLOPs ea. = 4.68Gflops/W)
HDD = 20W x3 = 60W
Optical Drive = 5W x3 = 15W
1 stick RAM = 10W x 6? = 60W
80mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
120mm fan = 2W x3 = 6W
TOTAL for 3 rigs: 714W x 1.2 (for Min. inefficiency of PSU) = 857W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 66.5 + 992 = 1058.5 GFLOPs
Your current combined Efficiency: 1.24GFLOPs /Watt

*** *** *** *** ***
Sandy Bridge i7-2600K Sandy Bridge = 95W
mobo NB + SB = 30W
HDD = 20W
Optical Drive = 5W
2 sticks RAM = 20W
80mm fan = 2W
120mm fan = 2W
ATI HD5870 = 188W (@2720GFLOPs = 14.5GFLOPs/W!!!)
TOTAL for new rig: 362W x 1.2 = 434W pulled from wall.
Total processing power (CPU + GPU) = 83.3 + 2720 = 2803.3 GFLOPs
Your NEW combined Efficiency: 6.46GFLOPs /Watt

I think that might be enough to convince her - new rig is 5.2 x MORE efficient than running the 3 old rigs put together. In other words, it has 2.6x the processing power, and uses exactly half of the electricity to do it.
Hope that helps! %%-**==

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fire$torm

Ahhh hey guys....

I think you are confusing CPU TDP (Thermal Design Power) with electrical power consumption. TDP refers to the max. amount of heat in Watts a CPU is designed to generate. All current CPUs use a lot more electrical power then their TDP rating.

Take a look at this ---> http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...5,2278-11.html

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TDPs, GFLOPs per Watt, efficiency ratings. ROFLMAO =)) How long have you guys been married???

Slicker... I'd go for the Rose Oil. Sure, it's $200 a half once but I think it will go further with your wife than GFLOPS per watt. Just my opinion. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

TDPs, GFLOPs per Watt, efficiency ratings. ROFLMAO =)) How long have you guys been married???

Slicker... I'd go for the Rose Oil. Sure, it's $200 a half once but I think it will go further with your wife than GFLOPS per watt. Just my opinion. ;)

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LOL! :)) heh...seriously, though...a lot of women would look at it like: "it'll cut the hobby electric bill in half, AND give my man 2 1/2 times the pleasure & status in his group? I'm up for that." They really do want their man to be happy and having a good, successful life, etc...and if they can DOUBLE that feeling for HALF the money, a woman will do that in a heartbeat! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrPop

LOL! :)) heh...seriously, though...a lot of women would look at it like: "it'll cut the hobby electric bill in half, AND give my man 2 1/2 times the pleasure & status in his group? I'm up for that." They really do want their man to be happy and having a good, successful life, etc...and if they can DOUBLE that feeling for HALF the money, a woman will do that in a heartbeat! :D

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I guess I've been shopping at the wrong store. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by STMahlberg

I guess I've been shopping at the wrong store. :)

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:P well...fair enough. ;) But...I won't exactly say the good lady's designs aren't selfish either. I mean, for example, what do you think she's going to do with that extra $$$ per month off the utility bill? :D Let's just say it aint gonna end up in Slicker's wallet as spendin' cash! :)) hehe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrPop

In that case, the equation will be even MORE lopsided in favor of the new rig! :D

However, most of those times, like for example in the link you posted, that is the total watts of the rig tested, not watts of the CPU. ;)

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True true. To get a true idea of what the system consumes look at the idle graph. That does include the CPU at idle but most of the other hardware is running pretty much full. The difference between max and idle is almost entirely CPU draw. And that is of most concern when figuring which PSU to get.