AndrOINC project

Hello there,
I've seen you are one of the larger (if not the largest) contributors to this project. I have a question for seti.usa regarding that project -

did you ever check whether it is an fully operational project that will yield an result in the future?

Because obviously you didn't as they aren't using proper algorithms to do the brute forcing.

So my another question is - are all of those BOINC project just to hunt some points or are there for an other reason too? If so - please, explain me which are those reason, because I can't see any.

Thank you!

Will someone Check his IP, that user name belongs to an aprox 21 Y/O kid on Slovakia. That apparently hasn't crunched in a while.

Interested to know how he would know what "algorithms" they use.

Unlikely. seems more like a Motorola employee that feels threatened ( no i don't really think that but just as likely)

Yes, I've read through the threads accusing the project of using algorithms that will fail to find the proper result. The "Project Scientist" has responded appropriately and I've sen enough to trust that they are taking a valid approach. They are indeed skipping some numbers, but it makes sense because they have the end result they are after and that lets them exclude some combinations right out of the gate.

Does it matter that much when the expected time to get the answer with any Brute-Force attack is measured in the huge time-frames they are? Long before they get their answer, they will have fine tuned the brute-force enough that it shouldn't matter. They have already been talking about a GPU version.

Yes, in a lot of cases, it comes down to being all about the points for some. But I agree that, if the science is bad, why waste the time? Donate your resources to some project that will actually make a difference. Even the entire premise of the AndrOINC project is more self-serving than making a difference. So regardless of the algorithm, are you sure you want to spend time trying to figure out how to "crack" the Motorola Milestone phone? Heck, by the time they get their answer, there won't even be such a thing. :)

First of all thanks Mumps for sane reply, much appreciated :)

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Originally Posted by Mumps

Does it matter that much when the expected time to get the answer with any Brute-Force attack is measured in the huge time-frames they are?

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wow nice approach, so if we know it will take huge amount of time to break it doesn't matter what approach you take because you know you will fail anyhow? Why would you even try to break it then?

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Originally Posted by Mumps

Donate your resources to some project that will actually make a difference.

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actually I was donating cpu power of both machines that I have, even offered help needed to host the project. The old one was nicely done, open-source and we knew what was going on. Then some guys came, DDoS-ed the old project and started this one.

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Originally Posted by Mumps

Even the entire premise of the AndrOINC project is more self-serving than making a difference.

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Yes that's right. Even the old project had that character, but at least it was done in the right way. We won't find the numbers anyway, so I don't get why should anyone want to cheat? They could "harvest" points even on the old project - but no, they HAD to cheat. I don't get it.

PS:

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Originally Posted by Dandasarge

Interested to know how he would know what "algorithms" they use.

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Yes if I woudln't know what algorithms they use so that implies they must be right. ;)

I love to ask touchy questions in these communities because:
a) I don't care about how much points I got
b) I don't care about my "reputation" here, someone might be afraid to lose if he would questions other "friendly" team. :)

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Originally Posted by MuF123

PS:


Yes if I woudln't know what algorithms they use so that implies they must be right. ;)

I love to ask touchy questions in these communities because:
a) I don't care about how much points I got
b) I don't care about my "reputation" here, someone might be afraid to lose if he would questions other "friendly" team. :)

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Not knowing is just that, You are in a team form that is based on SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence). Cracking a encryption is far more likely then finding a signal from space. Even with the worst system in place its way more likely. If you took the time to read our forms you would know everything you have brought to the table has been discussed. AndrOINC is one of the least useful projects on the market, So why don't you ask Bonic why they rank the points so high? Or ask other projects why they have such inefficient codes? AndrOINC obviously cares about the crunchers if it didn't it wouldn't work as well for us as it dose. Primegrid is equally as useless we also do well there.

Please mind the difference between "useless" and "improbable". Even improbable as the RSA-key-hunt might look like useless, but will yield the result - in some time. However current project is really useless (because they've already missed the right key).

That brings another question regarding whole of this BOINC point farming. IMHO It was made to motivate people to do more work units, but if I can make my own project doing exactly nothing (useful), pretend to do magnificent job - e.g. looking for whatever-numbers-you-can-make-up and harvest points with that?

I think it is unfair to those doing real research, however I'm here not to defend those, I'm here to make some of you think about the difference between improbable projects and useless projects, like AndrOINC.

If I were you I would do the improbable project, but since I can see the useless yield more "points", it doesn't matter, right?

MuF123, I agree with you to a point. Believe me, if Einstein was handing out credits as high - heck, even 2/3 as high as AndrOINC, I'd crunch that instead in a heart beat. The problem is, when you're trying to have a large team presence in the International community, you don't get any notoriety with a tiny score. Hope that makes sense.
To me, AndrOINC offers enough credits that hour CPU isn't totally useless - I mean, my top o the line AMD 1100T will get 1/10 the points of my 5870 per day if I put it on this project. ;)

That said, why don't you join us? There are lots of "good" projects out there that you could help us crunch; you sound like a very knowledgeable computer programmer, and we're always looking for more skill and people to join the team!
We've gone through a complete transformation overthr past year...and now we're beginning to roll as a force again. Who knows - if you're willing to join us, maybe you could help us regain that #1 slot someday and not let SIC steam roll us!
Thanks for your consideration, and I very well may crunch less AndrOINC and more AQUA in the future if all this about their algorithms turns out to have som merit.

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Originally Posted by MuF123

Please mind the difference between "useless" and "improbable". Even improbable as the RSA-key-hunt might look like useless, but will yield the result - in some time. However current project is really useless (because they've already missed the right key).

That brings another question regarding whole of this BOINC point farming. IMHO It was made to motivate people to do more work units, but if I can make my own project doing exactly nothing (useful), pretend to do magnificent job - e.g. looking for whatever-numbers-you-can-make-up and harvest points with that?

I think it is unfair to those doing real research, however I'm here not to defend those, I'm here to make some of you think about the difference between improbable projects and useless projects, like AndrOINC.

If I were you I would do the improbable project, but since I can see the useless yield more "points", it doesn't matter, right?

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The act of AndrOINC is useless, The results useless as what they say they will do with the info. But in truth what you see and what it is are two different things. The security changes that would only happen if this does work is irreplaceable. The David vs Goliath factor also plays in. I would Love to see the Gov adopt a like program to decrypt. Saving me billions in tax dollars. The problem is that you can't see past the words on the screen to know this is a gateway project. what you say is only relevant to what you believe. In truth no one knows what is the most or least important. It could be a AndrONIC result that changes security forever or a folding result that ends up curing Aids and never touches an answer to a protein issue. Both by design would be considered a useless failure. You can say how could you call an aids cure a useless failure, I have a high chance of getting Alzheimer's and a slim chance of Aids a cure for Aid's is useless, along with malaria issues and many other world issues that are way less important to me.

hey muf123


i am just a credit whore....find me a higher credit paying project and i will crunch that

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Originally Posted by Mumps

Yes, I've read through the threads accusing the project of using algorithms that will fail to find the proper result. The "Project Scientist" has responded appropriately and I've sen enough to trust that they are taking a valid approach. They are indeed skipping some numbers, but it makes sense because they have the end result they are after and that lets them exclude some combinations right out of the gate.

Does it matter that much when the expected time to get the answer with any Brute-Force attack is measured in the huge time-frames they are? Long before they get their answer, they will have fine tuned the brute-force enough that it shouldn't matter. They have already been talking about a GPU version.

Yes, in a lot of cases, it comes down to being all about the points for some. But I agree that, if the science is bad, why waste the time? Donate your resources to some project that will actually make a difference. Even the entire premise of the AndrOINC project is more self-serving than making a difference. So regardless of the algorithm, are you sure you want to spend time trying to figure out how to "crack" the Motorola Milestone phone? Heck, by the time they get their answer, there won't even be such a thing. :)

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Yeah! Why don't they do something that really makes a difference like cracking the Playstation to re-enable Otheros? They should have a PS3 app for it, too. I want Netflix! And that's not because it's one of the adds supporting the forum.

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Originally Posted by bmwr606

hey muf123


i am just a credit whore....find me a higher credit paying project and i will crunch that

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+1 Ding Ding Ding!!! +1

At this point - - we kind of ALL have to be - - to stop the bloody massacre from happening any sooner than it's projected to! :p

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Originally Posted by MuF123

I think it is unfair to those doing real research, however I'm here not to defend those, I'm here to make some of you think about the difference between improbable projects and useless projects, like AndrOINC.

If I were you I would do the improbable project, but since I can see the useless yield more "points", it doesn't matter, right?

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Its funny how the ONE project you did crunch was trying to find the the same key AndrOINC is trying to find. Try doing some real research (your words) before you criticize others. I don"t mean to offend you. I'm just trying to understand your backward thinking.

half a year have passed (since start of the project), so how's it going?

To be honest, I don't have a clue. Since they went down earlier this spring (taking DNETC down too), I haven't crunched it at all. Are they getting anywhere?:confused::p

I'm just asking because I was that ugly bad and fat 21y/o kid from slovakia that was bashing this project from the start as "smelly", so I wanted to know whether I was right or not.