declining volunteer population
I was wondering where to post this. This sub-forum is perfect, but for the reverse reason.
This is a net graph. I would love to see the actual numbers of new folks joining vs current folks becoming idle, broken down by project too.
The point: I am not sure the problem is recruitment. I think the problem may be people not sticking with it. And I think a LOT of that may be due to the bad taste left in the mouths of new volunteers when joining a new project. 9 times out of 10, the admins have no clue about how to run a project, and are just bad with the communication. They are focusing on the science after-all, and tend to be scientists, not admins or programmers. But the new volunteer, excited about the science idea, quickly gets pissed off at the lack of communication, the failing tasks, and just bails on the whole concept of DC/BOINC.
Quote:
From: David Anderson
Subject: [boinc_projects] declining volunteer population
Date: February 16, 2013 4:27:46 PM PST
To: Boinc Projects <boinc_projects@ssl.berkeley.edu>
The BOINC volunteer population began to decrease in early January,
and is now down by about 8,000:
http://boincstats.com/en/charts/-1/p...tive/chart.png
Let's try to reverse this trend.
There are a number of things you - BOINC-based projects - can do:
- Try to get in the media (as GIMPS did recently).
Ask your institution's publicity office for help doing this.
- Use BOINC's mechanisms for automatically emailing lapsed and failed users:
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/...Reminderemails
- Send periodic email newsletters:
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/...asedmechanisms
- Post news items on your web site, and export some of them as Notices
(so that they appear in your users' BOINC Managers).
If you have questions or problems doing any of these things,
please post to this email list.
And let us know if you have other ideas or experiences in this area.
-- David
Re: declining volunteer population
That sound like the sort of thing these projects need to be made aware of. Volunteers are not abstract constructs but human beings with various expectations of what they get in return for their efforts.
Re: declining volunteer population
There is a change of mood that slowly is parking in our heads and hearts, I don't know the real reason maybe is due to our way of life or to the financial crisis or even maybe because we are living a new cycle according to The Mayan or maybe is because we have been seen so many natural disasters lately from hurricanes to tsunamis. I had already posted on the "Mayan Doomsday Countdown" about this change of mood.
It is very different to ear about a guy that dies in Africa for lack of food or someone that was in Sumatra during a tsunami and live the trauma of a natural or financial disaster that drowns one person or takes out the food from someone that we know even if not so closely
There is a general change of mood that makes people more introspective and more aggressive (and selfish). I am very aware of that because I am always searching for signs of people moods and I have friends everywhere. The studies on the internet searches (that we all make) should show exactly that. The words should be changing very fast.
But well, I know some of you think I am crazy and maybe I am. There are a lot of other more logic reasons on the human way of thinking that I can talk about either.
Things are changing on a human level for a big amount of reasons. That goes from the financial crisis to our way of life. Things seem random but they are not. When we make of our model of life to be an aggressive entrepreneur that deals with finances and has a profile that is not so different from a serial killer, there is in fact something very wrong with us.
The main top model of life that goes from politicians to the top entrepreneurs that we let take the power are top models to be in jail and to be model prisoners but there are more much more, we live in different worlds and we can be neighbors, some struggle to survive and others have too many. I am on the lucky part of the world but well this is just a thought and maybe I am wrong, the future will tell, I hope I am wrong.
Re: declining volunteer population
Some of the Decline could be as people realize how hard it is to get in the Upper Echelons of Contributors they become Discouraged & drop out. The thing is with the progression of Technology & if they would stick with it their day might come or they might get in a position to reach the Top Tiers in BOINC. Look at me, I stuck with it & slowly built up my Pharm, for 3-4 Years I was stuck in the 50-100 Rankings. Then the Video Cards became relevant & I was 1 of the 1'st once to jump all over them & blew by everybody. For the last ? Years I've lead the pack but am about to lose that position in maybe 30 days or less. I don't care anymore though, I've finally realized there's more to BOINC than being #1.
I knew that all along & did run as many Projects as I could but slowly became disheartened as my Q6600's became also ran's compared to the newer CPU's. I was debating whether to just drop out or do something about it. Well with my new & improved Pharm I have new interest in the CPU Projects & don't really care about the GPU Projects that much at all. If people would just enjoy the CPU Projects more & not worry about how much Credit they put out each day I think they would enjoy BOINC more. But all you see at BOINC Stats is posting in the shout box on how much credit they put out each day or how much they've moved up the Ranks.
Hell I've got about 400 Hr's in at the SLinCA@Home Project trying to Improve my WUProp Badge but haven't gained a single Credit yet at the Project during those 400 Hr's. I don't care though & will continue to run the Project to help improve My WUProp Badge. That's what people need to do, find something in BOINC beside trying to increase their Daily Credit which becomes quit boring after awhile if that's all your in BOINC for ... IMO
Re: declining volunteer population
I totally agree with Steve! While I was never a "big" gun I could throw up pretty good credits when I was running GPUs. The problem was trying to keep them running remotely while we went south for the winter. It was extremely frustrating for me and the only support I had was a neighbor that was good enough to reboot the machines when I asked. Things that could be fixed in minutes by someone with a little computer savvy would have to wait for weeks or months till I returned home to get rectified.
Since I have been running basically only CPU life is so much simpler. You can still have a ball and get just as much enjoyment out of it ... all you have to do is adjust your targets and goals. Instead of shooting for 250M in a project you can set a goal of 1M (or less) and when you achieve that then move on to the next one. The 1st thing I used to do when I got up and right before bed was look at my BOINC total credits and daily credits. Now I NEVER look at the combined total because for all intents and purposes it doesn't change because of the small daily credits I produce. Now I only check how close I'm getting to my next goal and I'm very content with that. I'm having as much fun as I ever had. A side benefit is that my power bill has dropped by over 50% :))
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bryan
Now I NEVER look at the combined total because for all intents and purposes it doesn't change because of the small daily credits I produce. Now I only check how close I'm getting to my next goal and I'm very content with that. I'm having as much fun as I ever had. A side benefit is that my power bill has dropped by over 50% :))
Ditto, I never look at my Total Credit anymore either, I just look at the Projects I'm running to see where I'm at on them ... Don't really have to look at my Total Credit as it's in my Signature but doesn't tell me what I do from day to day, not concerned with that anymore, just having fun going after different or higher Badges ...
Re: declining volunteer population
Another reason for the decline could be costs. My electric rates have gone up 40% in the last three years. I can no longer afford to run all of my machines. I'm down to running 2 of 7 while letting the other 5 sit for now. If there's no chance that they will be used again then I will put them up for sale. If the costs continue to go up then I may be forced to discontinue my contributions.
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nanoprobe
Another reason for the decline could be costs. My electric rates have gone up 40% in the last three years. I can no longer afford to run all of my machines...
That was one of the big things for me...along with other things in life of course, but the big GPUs take serious electricity and when you don't live in a very "electric cost friendly" area...:p:)
Re: declining volunteer population
I have to agree on the costs being a factor. I got a energy usage report from the city that I use/consume 3X more power than my neighbors! So this does make me watch how much I use and trim the costs where possible. So I try to limit cores used and GPU loads.
Re: declining volunteer population
Yes the Cost is a big reason many drop out or reduce their output like me. I just couldn't take the $1400-$1500 a month Bills anymore, I'm still around $800-$1000 even with reducing my GPU usage & probably will have to back off even more except for maybe a Challenge or reach a smaller MM ... If the Cost of Electricity keeps going up all that's going to be left is the people that don't have to pay for it themselves ... IMO
Re: declining volunteer population
I strongly believe all that you are saying is also true.
I had a big man in my life and that was my grand-father.
He told me one day, believe in all the common sense of others human beings but keep a side of your brain open to other realities, keep your mind ready to listen to all human beings because one thing that capture a human brain maybe true or at least have a part of it.
I will keep listening for that old voice, no matter how crazy that can be...
Science discovered, not long ago that magnetic fields can change human moods and perceptions, stars are powerful magnetic fields.
And the universe is much more than the earth and the stars, the universe is free will...
Re: declining volunteer population
I wonder how long it's going to take Sic. to get bored blowing everyone else out of the water. At some point you have to wonder, why am I throwing thousands of dollars towards people who are hacking encryption when nobody else is even coming close to challenging me?
The key is to find balance. If you pay a few extra dollars (insert your own currency here) you can get more efficient hardware that will save you a lot of money in the long run. My electric bill has been dropping ever since that 'Phenom II X6 1055T's motherboard toasted.
By the way, that chip and anything else that I'm not using from that board are available to anyone that wants it. I decided not to pursue it because of the electricity it consumes, the heat it produces and the cost of a quality motherboard to support it. It was far cheaper for me to buy the combo from Ste\/e including his outdated Q6600.
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trigggl
It was far cheaper for me to buy the combo from Ste\/e including his outdated Q6600.
Still have 1 combo left ... :D
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trigggl
I wonder how long it's going to take Sic. to get bored blowing everyone else out of the water. At some point you have to wonder, why am I throwing thousands of dollars towards people who are hacking encryption when nobody else is even coming close to challenging me?
The key is to find balance. If you pay a few extra dollars (insert your own currency here) you can get more efficient hardware that will save you a lot of money in the long run. My electric bill has been dropping ever since that 'Phenom II X6 1055T's motherboard toasted.
By the way, that chip and anything else that I'm not using from that board are available to anyone that wants it. I decided not to pursue it because of the electricity it consumes, the heat it produces and the cost of a quality motherboard to support it. It was far cheaper for me to buy the combo from Ste\/e including his outdated Q6600.
If my health gets better, I'm in the process of building 2 x6's. If you have spare components, I might be able to use them.:)
On another note. when I started out, I never even imagined comming close to the numbes other's were putting out. I grew my farm and was able to put up at least decent numbers. I don't really look at my numbers too closely now. Some of the shine has come off the diamond. I do however enjoy a good stomp from time to time. I have always thought that if we could have an ambasador for each project that could kind of take the place of an admin there, we would be able to 1, answer peoples questions so they aren't waiting a month for a reply. 2, show the community that our team cares about them. 3, look good in the eyes of the community and therefore be able to recruit much more easily. If people feel that someone is working with them, they are much more likely to stay with a project or the whole boinc thing and not get disillusioned. $.02
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crazybob
...On another note...I have always thought that if we could have an ambassador for each project that could kind of take the place of an admin there, we would be able to 1, answer peoples questions so they aren't waiting a month for a reply. 2, show the community that our team cares about them. 3, look good in the eyes of the community and...
Some very good points. If I could find a project I really care about, and then find the time to do that in the future, I think I would like to be one of those ambassadors. If we could get just one person for each of the bigger projects, that really might be something! Great idea. :)
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
trigggl
I wonder how long it's going to take Sic. to get bored blowing everyone else out of the water
Obviously not any time soon, they've been putting out 140 Million+ Per Day for awhile now. Moon must have raided a few more Teams to get more Big GPU Hitters to come over to the SICI Team. Whatever, I don't even think of them anymore, if there was a chance of competing with them then I'd be interested in what their doing. But the way they've pulled away from everybody else their outta sight & outta mind ... Of course Moon will still moan about how small a Team they are & everybody's picking on them if we Gang up on them again ... :rolleyes:
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
STE\/E
Obviously not any time soon, they've been putting out 140 Million+ Per Day for awhile now. Moon must have raided a few more Teams to get more Big GPU Hitters to come over to the SICI Team. Whatever, I don't even think of them anymore, if there was a chance of competing with them then I'd be interested in what their doing. But the way they've pulled away from everybody else their outta sight & outta mind ... Of course Moon will still moan about how small a Team they are & everybody's picking on them if we Gang up on them again ... :rolleyes:
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crazybob
If my health gets better, I'm in the process of building 2 x6's. If you have spare components, I might be able to use them.:)
On another note. when I started out, I never even imagined comming close to the numbes other's were putting out. I grew my farm and was able to put up at least decent numbers. I don't really look at my numbers too closely now. Some of the shine has come off the diamond. I do however enjoy a good stomp from time to time. I have always thought that if we could have an ambasador for each project that could kind of take the place of an admin there, we would be able to 1, answer peoples questions so they aren't waiting a month for a reply. 2, show the community that our team cares about them. 3, look good in the eyes of the community and therefore be able to recruit much more easily. If people feel that someone is working with them, they are much more likely to stay with a project or the whole boinc thing and not get disillusioned. $.02
I think this hits the nail on the head. Most project admins have no idea about the give and take between getting their computation accomplished and providing the volunteers with updates and a sense of accomplishment that keeps everyone wanting to crunch. Without this positive feedback and status updating, it is easy to fall to just focusing on the game theory components of BOINC (credits, challenges, etc) and miss the point about the science being accomplished. That could be a dangerous road since that is not the primary focus here and new members may not realize how much they are truly accomplishing for humanity. That being said, I love the game theory components of BOINC and think it is one of the primary reasons it is so successful and has amazing potential. These questions were the focus of my question in the thread "What factors do you consider when allocating your resources?" LINK.
This dilemma is what put me on the search for a way to contribute in more ways than just with raw CPU/GPU power. I found out NumberFields@Home is run out of the university I work at and went ahead and contacted the admins. We met for coffee and discussed the project, BOINC and distributed computing in general. It was obvious we came from very different perspectives. Their expertise was in the field of programming/mathematics/server systems and I was more in-tune to the DC/Cruncher community. This is a match made in heaven as far as I am concerned. There really needs to be someone with every project who is the bridge between the public and the scientific community. I work on promoting the project, retaining members, gaining new members and focus on the image of the project. Without someone managing this it is easy for volunteers to loose faith in the project. After having this inside knowledge of the project I truly see potential and know the work will be useful and used in a meaningful way. My job then becomes convincing the volunteers that their CPU time does not go to waste. Hopefully most projects will adopt this model and help keep their volunteers engaged- it really is a two-way street.
Re: declining volunteer population
@litehouse43: Good points to be sure. Good of you to make such an effort.
I guess my peeve with many projects is how is it they can be so unaware of the volunteer community? In this modern world with all of the corporate PR that goes on, common sense dictates that in order to have true success one needs to engage with the source of ones profits. I.E. the customer. BOINC volunteers are the repository that fuels all BOINC projects. Can they really be that ignorant of the fact that all the potential computing power available in the volunteer pool requires no input on their part? This seemingly blind attitude It bugs me to no end. Forgive the comparison but its like they have this Master/Slave mentality, they are the masters and the volunteers are the slaves. "Good Tobi, back to the field and make your quota". I'm sorry but I be NOT a Lemming.
Re: declining volunteer population
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fire$torm
@litehouse43: Good points to be sure. Good of you to make such an effort.
I guess my peeve with many projects is how is it they can be so unaware of the volunteer community? In this modern world with all of the corporate PR that goes on, common sense dictates that in order to have true success one needs to engage with the source of ones profits. I.E. the customer. BOINC volunteers are the repository that fuels all BOINC projects. Can they really be that ignorant of the fact that all the potential computing power available in the volunteer pool requires no input on their part? This seemingly blind attitude It bugs me to no end. Forgive the comparison but its like they have this Master/Slave mentality, they are the masters and the volunteers are the slaves. "Good Tobi, back to the field and make your quota". I'm sorry but I be NOT a Lemming.
I tend to think (/hope) it is less of an intentional construct. I know most of the scientists I work with (and is quite to stereotype) cannot describe their work or put in appreciable terms for laymen. With a "citizen science" style platform to BOINC you are asking scientists/engineers to put down their notepads and pick up a microphone. By design BOINC takes these people out of their element. Being a scientist myself, I can appreciate their challenges. A fundamental part of being a good scientist is being able to persuade others your work has merit. Some projects don't quite have that down yet. Honestly a bunch probably don't feel as if they need to either. Most scientists make their case to a funding review board and then go on their merry way. Most are not used to sharing their work during the research process and keep results quiet until publishing time. We may just be facing traditional, outdated scientific mentality issues, as unfortunate as they are.
