Standardized Credits

[DrPop]

Personally, I think they are just being lazy. I do agree with you DrPop that creditnew is asinine, although I don't agree with the generalization that it's a liberal/academic thing...

Edited my post above for you, just to keep it "non-political", because I was not referring to "politics" as in conservative/liberal "GOP vs Dems". Not at all. I was talking about the philosophical bent of those in charge. There is a difference, but I suppose only those who really have gotten into either a lot of academia or are into that sort of thing would understand where I was going. Really, though - I do not want to hi-jack this thread in that way, and/or offend anyone who is easily offended in that regard. There is room in the crunching hobby for all "opinions" on that sort of thing.

Speaking of Credit New alone:
I do, however, completely fail to understand how ANYONE in their right mind could conceive of such a plan where those who have acquired newer, faster hardware that is able to get more work done, are PENALIZED to "support" and come in line with those crunching on old, dated, slow hardware that gets less accomplished in the same amount of time. Are we trying to go backward or forward here?
I think, based on that analysis of Credit New, you can appreciate where I was coming from in my post - they are taking a nearly "market driven" system and turning it into an entirely different regime when they do this. It is not good for those who wish to be competitive and boost their team's standings, etc. Penalizing genious, penalizing effort, penalizing ability, is not how you encourage growth. We're talking economics 101 here. They need to re-take that class, LOL!
Thank you for understanding about Credit New. And, we can always have the other political / common sense chats in a different thread or by PM anytime.

[spingadus]

Edited my post above for you, just to keep it "non-political", because I was not referring to "politics" as in conservative/liberal "GOP vs Dems". Not at all. I was talking about the philosophical bent of those in charge. There is a difference, but I suppose only those who really have gotten into either a lot of academia or are into that sort of thing would understand where I was going. Really, though - I do not want to hi-jack this thread in that way, and/or offend anyone who is easily offended in that regard. There is room in the crunching hobby for all "opinions" on that sort of thing.

Fair enough although I wasn't offended. It's just a conversation. I guess it was directed to the academia crowd on the forums. But hey, I may be there one day as I'm back in school again. I'll just keep an eye out for the DA types

Speaking of Credit New alone:
I do, however, completely fail to understand how ANYONE in their right mind could conceive of such a plan where those who have acquired newer, faster hardware that is able to get more work done, are PENALIZED to "support" and come in line with those crunching on old, dated, slow hardware that gets less accomplished in the same amount of time. Are we trying to go backward or forward here?
I think, based on that analysis of Credit New, you can appreciate where I was coming from in my post - they are taking a nearly "market driven" system and turning it into an entirely different regime when they do this. It is not good for those who wish to be competitive and boost their team's standings, etc. Penalizing genious, penalizing effort, penalizing ability, is not how you encourage growth. We're talking economics 101 here. They need to re-take that class, LOL!
Thank you for understanding about Credit New. And, we can always have the other political / common sense chats in a different thread or by PM anytime.

I concur.

[DrPop]

Fair enough... I'll just keep an eye out for the DA types ...

Haha! Yes, thanks for not being offended, this is a discussion that for some reason gets people up in arms. To me it seems pretty simple - these artificial stones we get "the credits" are the only leverage a project has to get more crunchers, beside the "goodness" of the project. So for example, WCG gets a lot of crunchers because of its humanitarian nature. Yay! Good for them. But, their credits are loooooow...and that's simply because they can be. So they don't care. I guarantee if everyone stopped crunching WCG tomorrow, they would consider raising the credits. That's the simple, wonderfulness of supply and demand, if "outside powers" don't interfere with it, it always works.
Consequently, who would *really* crunch DiRt instead of WCG if the credits were equal? I wouldn't. The guys that run DiRt understand this. Therefore, the giant credit bombs they offer per WU get us to crunch their project.

With DA's Credit New scheme, you take that leverage away from the projects...that's kind of what I was meaning by a "market driven" economy in BOINC - I'm not sure how the academics that are running the thing see it - but they apparently either don't see reality, or they know something we don't? Because from our viewpoint as the crunchers...well, I'm just not getting it.

Anyone else have any ideas as to why they are doing this?

[Zytozux]

Thank you all for your wonderful responses. I like zombie's and poorboy's ideas on crunching a lot. So, I have decided that stats like this are not a very good judge of who is contributing the most work.

We enjoy ~8 new members a day on Seti@home, and I think some of that comes from the visibility of being in 1st place. Therefore, as a member of the TopGun division, I am going to donate my resources towards improving our rank on a popular project where the team is in 66th place, WCG.

[DrPop]

Thank you all for your wonderful responses... I am going to donate my resources towards improving our rank on a popular project where the team is in 66th place, WCG.

Nice, and a worthy cause to be sure! But, can you also do folks like Slicker and I a favor and put your GPU on something high paying while your CPU is on WCG? Thank you if you can!!!

[zombie67]

WCG will have GPU apps soon. They won't pay like moo, distrrtgen, donate, etc. More like Einstein, seti, etc. Still, better than CPU credits!

[kaptainkarl1]

Where does this DA guy live? Is it near the water? He can always go for a long walk off a short pier...

[Mumps]

Well, that is *obviously* the perfect way to score BOINC.

Sorry, any scale that has Maxwell at 40, and me not even in the Top 100 has obviously got to be flawed!

[Fire$torm]

Sorry, any scale that has Maxwell at 40, and me not even in the Top 100 has obviously got to be flawed!

[Mumps]

[rant on]
Old vs new CPU is the same arguement. If one CPU won't support SSE4 and but another does and that allows it to compete a WU faster, shouldn't it get more credit per second when compared to some other project which doesn't have SSE4 apps and both CPUs earn the same there?
[rant off]

Also, don't forget that CreditNew will actually *decrease* the credits granted when a project releases newer, more efficient, code that completes the same work in less time. Look at Seti for example. You get less credit by running the Lunatics optimized apps than you should because it's more efficient. So, CreditNew even encourages *bad* programming.